Current Events > Would you say Cynthia is the Pokemon games' 2nd most iconic trainer/fight

(+) Yeah! (+)

I feel like she's definitely the most iconic champion. Guess you could go with Blue as well, but eh, outside of being gen-1 so of course he'll be remembered for nostalgia's sake, people don't really talk about him as much as a champion.

First place goes to Trainer Red of course (which was honestly very well-built. Props to Game Freak for that).

Personally, she's cool, but I think her music is a little meh honestly. Doesn't hit the sweet spot for me, never played it, but I love Iris' theme; I think she has my favorite champion music (although, for all the flak it got, gen 8 had some pretty good music to me personally and the Leon theme is pretty energetic).

I do remember never even making it to her in Diamond because I was a dumb kid that only leveled up Torterra like I've always done in Pokemon games. At some point, he'd get blown out and it was gg for me. In Platinum, I'm pretty sure they lowered the levels, and I also actually used another brain cell and trained my pokemon throughout, so I was able to get to her first try. It was kinda epic since I only had one more revive left and she had her last pokemon left. I had to choose between Staraptor and Togekiss (I wasn't too keen on pokemon, only knew the former had higher attack while the latter had more hp). Went with Staraptor and one-shot the Roserade with an aerial ace. Felt very satisfying and like I avenged my Trainer from Diamond who just couldn't get there. Oh yeah, in Diamond, I had to live with the shame of one-shotting Dialga with my Torterra's Earthquake, and not getting to catch it. I didn't save before hand, so yeah.... sad day, lol. It's crazy, in just a few years, how much better of a gamer I became. I always feel like I could rarely beat a game when I was young because I was too dumb, and then suddenly, it just all came together.

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Hers is the most iconic. When you walked into that house in Undella Town and see her, you probably said some variation of "f this shit I'm out".

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gunplagirl posted...

Hers is the most iconic. When you walked into that house in Undella Town and see her, you probably said some variation of "f this shit I'm out".

I wish I could have experienced that! Those kinda moments I don't think I ever got to experience (Like Trainer Red, I didn't even know you could go to Kanto, so that's like so much of the game I missed!). I'm honestly struggling to think of too many "holy cow" moments from my childhood because either the game didn't really have it, or by the time I do get to experience those moments, I have had it spoiled by the internet 100 times already. For Pokemon, closest for me was the XY Looker quest that I had no idea was in the game, so that was a neat surprise that I stumbled upon.

When Black/White came out, that was when I hit my "Pokemon is lame" phase of life. A part of me kinda wanted them, but at the same time, I was fully on the CoD train. MW2 and Black Ops were my new life. I don't regret it, those games were hella fun, but I did miss out on those games unfortunately. Used to hear they sucked too, but that was probably because that's when I finally kept up with internet discussions, and of course, new games are always people's least favorite.

Just talked about the other day how I wish I could find a dang copy of those games for cheap! What a shame, lol.

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I think it's a combination of her being a good character/trainer and everyone wanting to shove their dick in her >_>

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NeonOctopus posted...

I think it's a combination of her being a good character/trainer and everyone wanting to shove their dick in her >_>

Correction, I want her to shove her dick in me.

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NeonOctopus posted...

I think it's a combination of her being a good character/trainer and everyone wanting to shove their dick in her >_>

She was the first female champion, right? Considering the next female champ is a little girl, and the one after is the most forgettable final boss in Pokemon history (XY), she doesn't have much competition on that front.


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Don't know if this is true, but they apparently developed a smarter AI for Diamond and Pearl but for some reason only decided to apply it to Cynthia.

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Didn't Alder try to fuck Cynthia in the anime but she kept turning him down? lol

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Red > Blue > Lance > Cynthia

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YellowSUV posted...
Don't know if this is true, but they apparently developed a smarter AI for Diamond and Pearl but for some reason only decided to apply it to Cynthia.
Gym leaders, E4, and Cynthia. Hers is the only consistently aggressive one though.

NeonOctopus posted...
Didn't Alder try to fuck Cynthia in the anime but she kept turning him down? lol
Asked her on dates, at least.

SomeLikeItHoth posted...

Red > Blue > Lance > Cynthia

Lance has always been trash.

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Not enough love for Steven imho.
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https://imgur.com/fLuBby5

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gunplagirl posted...

Hers is the most iconic. When you walked into that house in Undella Town and see her, you probably said some variation of "f this shit I'm out".

LMAO

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SomeLikeItHoth posted...

Red > Blue > Lance > Cynthia

This.

Red is Red.

Blue is a walking meme.

Lance has a cape and had his Dragonite Hyper Beam a dude.

Cynthia is definitely a strong 4th place.

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SerperiorThanU posted...

Cynthia's theme is the best battle theme in the whole series to me.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXefFHRgyE0
Clearly a fairly popular opinion since it has more views than any other battle themes on youtube.

They even made a music video for it
https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Battle_gene_M
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JkhOikfcqDg

Dang, is this true? I always assumed Vs. Trainer Red (and Champion Lance) would be the most-viewed theme.

SomeLikeItHoth posted...

Red > Blue > Lance > Cynthia

I like the Gen 1/Gen 2 champ themes a lot better myself. I can't speak for fights because I haven't played Gen 2 or 1 in forever! Screw Blue for being cheap and picking the reverse of our starter, though, lol.

Slayer_22 posted...

Not enough love for Steven imho.

I blame Emerald.... speaking of which. Is Steven the Sapphire/Ruby champ or the Emerald champ? Who was even the champ of ORAS?!?

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I don't personally recall having difficulty with her. So I don't really get the joke people make about encountering her. She still is memorable to me though because she's very accomplished in combat and outside of it as well and she has a striking appearance and unique style.

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SerperiorThanU posted...

It's awesome but it didn't even get its own Smash remix. Part of it was put inside the Johto battle medley. Gen 7 champion is in Smash but it's the original. Cynthia is the only champion theme that got its own remix.

Anyway, Pokemon Masters did a remix of Cynthia/Steven/Lance and it's epic.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RR2JCa5dwLo
I think this cements Cynthia's theme as the best to me personally though since when put together like this Cynthia's sections are my favorite part and the part I rewind to a lot.

I forgot about her remix in Smash. Man, gen 4 is my favorite gen, so I'm glad to see it get love. As I said, her theme isn't my personal favorite by a longshot, but I respect it still.

Speaking of Smash, it's a shame Sword/Shield weren't out yet. I think VS. Champion Leon would have made for a better Smash theme.

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Most iconic is the comfy shorts kid

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PiOverlord posted...

Oh yeah, in Diamond, I had to live with the shame of one-shotting Dialga with my Torterra's Earthquake, and not getting to catch it. I didn't save before hand, so yeah.... sad day, lol.

In DP you can go back and capture Dialga/Palkia if you KO them then beat the elite 4.

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ChocoboMogALT posted...

In DP you can go back and capture Dialga/Palkia if you KO them then beat the elite 4.

I think I learned about that later (although when I was making this topic, I couldn't remember if that was something all games shared or just Platinum as I knew you could revisit them there I'm pretty sure), but younger me didn't know that and thought he just lost the chance at Dialga forever.

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gunplagirl posted...

Correction, I want her to shove her dick in me.

Yes.

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BloodMoon7 posted...

I don't personally recall having difficulty with her. So I don't really get the joke people make about encountering her

This honestly. I feel like everyone else is just bad at Pokemon whenever I see memes about OMG WHITNEY IS IMPOSSIBLE IN G/S. CYNTHIA IS THE MOST DIFFICULT POKEMON TRAINER EVER in D/P.

I always genuinely thought Cynthia was whatever until the interwebs collectively decided to obsess over her.

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I can't remember who Cynthia even is.

Am I not understanding what iconic means? How are Brock and Misty not up there?

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Idk, it might depend on the circumstances. I beat her first try in Platinum... but that was with the power of max revives.

Additionally, some of the people may have been younger and not really valued having a full team of strong pokemon. As I said, when I was younger, I couldn't even get to her in Diamond because I just grinded Torterra while leaving the rest of my pokemon behind. I got murdered pretty easily in the Elite Four (I guess the rest of the game must have been easy up to that point because nothing ever made me stop and think if my strategy of only focusing on one pokemon was majorly flawed). I mean, it took me until the 7th generation to actually try to incorporate strategies other than "put MAX POWER moves on each pokemon." I used to be a Fire Blast fanboy. Not only that, but I really ignored the value of STAB and attack vs special attack. To me, higher number = better number (so I would put high powered special attack moves on a physical attacker or vice versa).

Shoot, I still don't even bother with EV's. Also, IV's could make your pokemon be sucky, but do you think us younger kids ever bothered to check that kinda stuff? I still don't give a damn, especially with modern-day pokemon where they really made it easy to get through the main campaign.

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She's easier in Platinum. She was hard on D/P

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TendoDRM posted...

I can't remember who Cynthia even is.

Am I not understanding what iconic means? How are Brock and Misty not up there?

I just meant specifically with the game community. If you include all of Pokemon, then obviously the most iconic is Ash followed by the anime crew (Misty, Brock, May, maybe Dawn... then I kinda think the anime lost some of its massive following in America around that point).

I have to say, if it wasn't for the anime, I don't even think Misty gets that much love compared to other female gym leaders imo. Brock would probably still be iconic as far as trainers go because he's the first real boss fight/gym leader.

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PiOverlord posted...

I blame Emerald.... speaking of which. Is Steven the Sapphire/Ruby champ or the Emerald champ? Who was even the champ of ORAS?!?

Steven is the champion of ORAS. I just beat it a few months ago lol
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She's the GOAT

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I'd say Blue (the original rival who following rivals are most often compared to) and Red (for being Red, aka the original playable character and the character Ash was based on) are more iconic fights, but Cynthia is probably 3rd.

Srk700 posted...

I'd say Blue (the original rival who following rivals are most often compared to) and Red (for being Red, aka the original playable character and the character Ash was based on) are more iconic fights, but Cynthia is probably 3rd.

You know, I was being a little unfair to Blue partially. Maybe as a champ, I don't really remember him much since he doesn't have some over-the-top design or such, but he was the best rival of the games, and the one that felt like a true enemy/rival.

They really need the main rival to be hateable again. Beating Blue is satisfying... beating someone like Hop, I just start to feel bad after I crush him for the 100th time easily.

I know people like to scream genwunner at people who like gen 1 the most, but gen 1 did some things better than the others in certain aspects.

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I mean, Blue has the benefit of having been your rival and the first game makes him being champion into this huge twist, and it's the only battle to get its own special theme Lance gets the Gym Battle Theme, the other E4 and Giovanni outside of his gym get the regular battle theme LOL. It has the benefit of you confronting the same dweeb who got a Pokemon at the same time as you, and has always been a smug jerk to you.

Cynthia benefits from being in a more advanced game: she gets not one, but two themes: the piano bit that plays when you're talking to her pre-battle(and the DS has a surprisingly great piano synth, even!), and then her pulse-pounding battle theme. Blue is actually a good analogue here, in the sense that both Lance and Steven/Wallace leaned heavily into one type, but Cynthia has a balanced team like Blue but gets the edge because her team consistently has really solid movesets(most Pokemon in RBY did not have access to solid movesets, but "Alakazam with Psychic and Recover" was still effective enough). And, of course, Garchomp. That thing is just a bulldozer, and hers has Dragon Rush and Earthquake for all of its hope-crushing OHKO needs(and it's level 66 in D/P! Platinum is a little gentler(level 62), but replaces the mostly-useless Brick Break with Flamethrower, just in case you thought you were going to stall it out with Bronzong or Skarmory, I guess....)
You get to rematch her in Platinum, even.

And yes, I noped the hell out of the one house in Undella Town. I wasn't ready for that. The mistake they've consistently made with her theme is upping the pitch too much.
I've always felt Red was more of an easter egg, but he's kind of easy in GSC, if you can grind, like...20 levels so Pikachu isn't OHKOing everything. HGSS makes him quite a bit tougher.

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gunplagirl posted...

NeonOctopus posted...

I think it's a combination of her being a good character/trainer and everyone wanting to shove their dick in her >_>

Correction, I want her to shove her dick in me.

I came when I heard you beat the Elite 4.
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Diamond & Pearl had so many issues with the game running like molasses, so i got kinda impatient and just steamrolled Cynthia with Dialga and revives... which I'm sure will trigger some butthurt Cynthia fanboy that i used a box legendary to turn his perfect waifu (she's sooo tough) into an uneventful Tuesday afternoon. Granted, even w/o Dialga, i feel like she wouldn't have been that tough.

I should play Platinum someday, though.

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Not sure if it's been mentioned yet, but another feather in Cynthia's challenge / intimidation cap is that she also had a Spiritomb on her team, which at the time was the first and only Pokemon in the series with no type weakness.

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SomeLikeItHoth posted...

Red > Blue > Lance > Cynthia

This. I couldn't even remember which one was Cynthia until a picture was posted.

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masterpug53 posted...

Not sure if it's been mentioned yet, but another feather in Cynthia's challenge / intimidation cap is that she also had a Spiritomb on her team, which at the time was the first and only Pokemon in the series with no type weakness.

It was the second, and also the uglier of the two. Sableye was the first and was much cuter, though probably not as competitively viable.

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lol no
Garry > Lance

Zelda_Aran posted...

Diamond & Pearl had so many issues with the game running like molasses, so i got kinda impatient and just steamrolled Cynthia with Dialga and revives... which I'm sure will trigger some butthurt Cynthia fanboy that i used a box legendary to turn his perfect waifu (she's sooo tough) into an uneventful Tuesday afternoon. Granted, even w/o Dialga, i feel like she wouldn't have been that tough.

I should play Platinum someday, though.

Eh, I think if the game didn't want you to use the legendaries, they wouldn't let you catch them before the Elite 4. Since they gave you the option, no one should be upset you used it. Game should be able to workaround that if it really wants to.

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PiOverlord posted...

They really need the main rival to be hateable again. Beating Blue is satisfying... beating someone like Hop, I just start to feel bad after I crush him for the 100th time easily.

I think their compromise for this was to have two rivals: one buddy and one jerk.

Like, in SwSh, they have you weakass Hop, but then they also have you Bede who was a proper asshole.

They did a similar thing in Pokemon Masters too. You have one forgettable rival who's nice to you, and then your main rival is this prince dude who's a total douche for the entire story.

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Hambo the Hog posted...

It was the second, and also the uglier of the two. Sableye was the first and was much cuter, though probably not as competitively viable.

Ah crap, I forgot about Sableye, thanks for the correction.

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masterpug53 posted...

Ah crap, I forgot about Sableye, thanks for the correction.

Lol it's not that important anyway. Your actual point about Cynthia having a pokeyman with no weaknesses still stands. I just hate Spiritomb's design and couldn't stand to see it get undeserved praise lol.

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