Board 8 > The Metroid Dread Topic (marked spoilers)

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htaeD
10/15/21 2:24:56 PM
#151:


I think his resistance to normal shots is only a problem in the first phase.
Had I known that locked missiles did reduced damage, I wouldnt have tried to fire so many either. Lol.

I also love that the very first cutscene with him tells you that missiles are his initial weakness and it shows off a couple of his boss moves as well.
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GuessMyUserName
10/15/21 3:15:18 PM
#152:


Messing around with the Kraid skip... and it doesn't actually seem useful beyond the neat OHKO. Of course getting the Grapple early lets you get bombs, pulse radar, and flash shift early.... but you still need Diffusion Beam to reach the Speed Booster EMMI control station, which means coming back down to Kraid.

I guess if you get the Grapple early then you don't even need to fight Kraid, since there's a grapple door behind him to the Diffusion Beam......... but the teleporter after Kraid brings you to the early grapple anyways so you might as well just get Varia, kill Kraid for the Diffusion Beam, then do the Grapple skip which is the real ticket to opening up some shortcuts and early powers on the way to Speed Boosters (which were the original tool for unlocking Grapple).

I should note that I have seen a way to get past the Diffusion Block in your way to the Speed Boosters through Burenia... but it seems to be a rather unreliable glitch that I'd rather not bother with. Full Kraid skip would've been cool if you could at least get up to the speed boosters reliably but oh well.

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masterplum
10/15/21 3:34:00 PM
#153:


6:26
47% items

Game was sweet. Looking forward to trying a hard mode 100% run. Loved that the bosses were challenging but fair. I think I got hit by the final bosses second form once on the time I finally beat him.

Honestly my only real gameplay complaint was the timing on counters was a little too tight for my liking. I also think I would have little bit more of a twist on the formula, but I did like all the different powerups. I thought that would be more of a retread.

My biggest issue was always unavoidable. I think Metroidvanias are best when they are half as long and half the cost. Hollow Knight I still think is the best ever mostly because I think smaller packages with more optional content really help the genre because you can really make them more open. That was never going to happen here given it was a AAA Nintendo game. It basically always had to be a longer game given it was selling for $60

I think 9/10 is pretty accurate. Really great for what it was, but it didn't blow me away by doing anything unexpected.

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transcience
10/15/21 3:56:23 PM
#154:


wait, what? Hollow Knight is like twice as long as Dread

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iphonesience
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CasanovaZelos
10/15/21 3:59:12 PM
#155:


I think even twice is an understatement...

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masterplum
10/15/21 4:00:36 PM
#156:


transcience posted...
wait, what? Hollow Knight is like twice as long as Dread

To the initial ending? I don't believe it is. I think the great thing about Hollow Knight is how much is optional. It makes the openness real

Google is telling me I am very wrong. Maybe I just don't remember it well enough

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transience
10/15/21 4:25:10 PM
#157:


I just checked howlongtobeat. Hollow Knight's sitting at 26 hours whereas Dread is 8

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htaeD
10/15/21 6:19:55 PM
#158:


Like I said elsewhere Hollow Knight is more of a darksoulsvania than a metroidvania.
Complete with shops, character interactions etc.
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Epyo
10/15/21 6:49:15 PM
#159:


jesus that sounds long for a video game

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HeroDelTiempo17
10/15/21 7:17:21 PM
#160:


I have a feeling howlongtobeat is counting "main story" as the true ending and not the castlevania-style ending partway through that plum is talking about, but regardless of that, HK is still going to be much longer just to get there. I think a conservative estimate is 66-75% of that playtime.

htaeD posted...
Like I said elsewhere Hollow Knight is more of a darksoulsvania than a metroidvania.
Complete with shops, character interactions etc.

I'd put it like this: Hollow Knight takes so long to beat blind because on your first playthrough you're playing it like Dark Souls. But mastering the game works like a Metroidvania. It's about learning the map, movement tricks, sequence breaking, and the mechanical details. And what plum says about the optional content is true: SO MUCH of the game is actually optional. You have no way of knowing this on your first playthough, but when you play it knowing what you're doing it feels much more like a Metroidvania. I'm biased because I play a lot of HK randomizer, but believe me when I say the game becomes much shorter on replays.

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masterplum
10/15/21 7:38:41 PM
#161:


HeroDelTiempo17 posted...
I have a feeling howlongtobeat is counting "main story" as the true ending and not the castlevania-style ending partway through that plum is talking about, but regardless of that, HK is still going to be much longer just to get there. I think a conservative estimate is 66-75% of that playtime.

I'd put it like this: Hollow Knight takes so long to beat blind because on your first playthrough you're playing it like Dark Souls. But mastering the game works like a Metroidvania. It's about learning the map, movement tricks, sequence breaking, and the mechanical details. And what plum says about the optional content is true: SO MUCH of the game is actually optional. You have no way of knowing this on your first playthough, but when you play it knowing what you're doing it feels much more like a Metroidvania. I'm biased because I play a lot of HK randomizer, but believe me when I say the game becomes much shorter on replays.

Yeah, I must be conflating my shortest possible path with how long it actually takes people. I remember the shortest path being surprisingly short

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Dark Young Link
10/15/21 9:39:13 PM
#162:


Just beat Metroid Dread today. Fun game. Got lost a LOT,

Cleat time 18:56:06(Not sure how much of that is me leaving the game idle, assuming time is counted while paused) 92% items, I'm honestly baffled about the ones I'm missing. They involve speed booster in morph ball areas... where there's no room to run. I thought I was going to get one more item after fighting a certain boss but, oops he was the end boss so... Some of the items require some high dexterity stuff, made me feel pretty good to figure it out.

Bosses felt pretty fair to fight, if I died I typically figured out what I needed to do right away. Certain fights felt like they did a lot of damage though, shout out to that mini boss you fight shortly after getting you damage reducing Gravity Suit... that deals 2 bars per hit.

Overall, pretty great game.

Now I can fucking finally use Youtube again without worrying about getting recommended all the spoilers >_>


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StartTheMachine
10/16/21 4:23:27 AM
#163:


Hollow Knight was at least 4 Dreads in length for me just on a normal run, around 30 hours (but I didn't have much more to do to get the real ending). Dread is a perfect length for one of these, but I will say when the game teases a fortress in the sky, I was expecting a whole new Chozodia like final area, not just a boss encounter. That disappointed me a bit that it wasn't.

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transience
10/16/21 9:44:03 AM
#164:


I played with some sequence breaking - gravity suit before space jump and storm missiles. it's going fine but I'm finding myself in spots without space jump that are really weird -- for example, this extremely stupid bomb jump:

https://twitter.com/necta_rines/status/1449221082636959750

I think I might end up just beating it without space jump, which I assume is reasonably possible.

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GuessMyUserName
10/16/21 12:38:29 PM
#165:


oh god

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transcience
10/16/21 12:47:44 PM
#166:


if you thought that was bad

https://twitter.com/necta_rines/status/1449379639340666887?s=21

Im at the last boss now and Im not entirely sure how to deal with that gun attack without space jump, but Ill figure it out

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ninkendo
10/16/21 1:06:17 PM
#167:


3:07 clear time on Normal

okay I'll try hard now

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GuessMyUserName
10/16/21 1:06:19 PM
#168:


chaining 2 emmi counters should be illegal

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GuessMyUserName
10/16/21 1:24:36 PM
#169:


just went and tested final boss phase 2

I think it is possible to dodge the aiming rapid fire attack without space jump (I can't really confirm since I do well, have space jump on me)

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Isquen
10/16/21 1:33:58 PM
#170:


Bomb jumping remains extremely fun, at least.

Meanwhile some of the Speed Booster optional packs are driving me wild. Unsure if one was in Arteria or Burenia, but the fact I had to storea shinespark, cross bomb a whole, unmorph, flash step left, and boost upwards in a tight window sucks a lot worse than something else I'm trying to do in Burenia with a one block window to store shinespark, fall, latch, boost up a slope, re-store, fall, repeat, ball, and boost up another slope. I think. I'm getting gout arthritis pain from it.

100% looking rough.

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transience
10/16/21 1:36:50 PM
#171:


this one?

https://twitter.com/necta_rines/status/1447410754160771074

I struggled with this one for sure. I find that playing with a pro controller is a lot better than handheld for these awful shinespark puzzles.

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xyzzy
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htaeD
10/16/21 1:51:47 PM
#172:


Yeah I found it easier to just shift forwards 2/3 times and shinespark straight up.
Then to do a diagonal spark after one shift.
Some videos I saw also drop the crossbomb behind samus, to save her a few seconds of needing to roll out of the tunnel.

I managed all puzzles on the handheld mode at least. But the Burenia one required me to to take a break to not hurt my hand.
(also I am not sure why you're latching onto something in any speedbooster puzzle)
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transcience
10/16/21 2:58:41 PM
#173:


beat it - you can dodge that gun attack but i usually take a little bit of damage from it. avoiding the other stuff was key.

the escape was pretty bad too, and I died once on it because it took me 90 seconds to get out of the first room. once I learned it it wasnt so bad.

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Isquen
10/16/21 6:22:17 PM
#174:


transience posted...
this one?

https://twitter.com/necta_rines/status/1447410754160771074

I struggled with this one for sure. I find that playing with a pro controller is a lot better than handheld for these awful shinespark puzzles.

Yeah, it was that one. I've now 100%'d Ghavoran, Burenia, and Elun, and am now irked at a speed booster wallbounce puzzle in a frozen room right by Ghavoran's transport in Dairon.

Edit: the Burenia puzzle that gave me grief became easier when I realized I could shinespark diagonally downwards perpendicular to the slope I needed to climb to reset dash.

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GuessMyUserName
10/16/21 6:24:41 PM
#175:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NxcZiBM5Z_o

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Leafeon13N
10/16/21 6:25:13 PM
#176:


Isquen posted...
Yeah, it was that one. I've now 100%'d Ghavoran, Burenia, and Elun, and am now irked at a speed booster wallbounce puzzle in a frozen room right by Ghavoran's transport in Dairon.

Edit: the Burenia puzzle that gave me grief became easier when I realized I could shinespark diagonally downwards perpendicular to the slope I needed to climb to reset dash.
Not done with the game yet but got that one without whatever that powered up morph ball bomb thing is.
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GANON1025
10/16/21 7:35:40 PM
#177:


At the last boss, but I'm having so much fun with the game I'm gonna try and go for 100% items first. Got all the items in Hanubia, Ghavoran, Dairon and Artaria so far.

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transience
10/16/21 9:21:48 PM
#178:


that diagonal spark onto the slope made things so much easier when I learned about it, especially since that spark is part of early gravity suit. the other ones I'll probably never do again.

the one GMUN posted is the one that gave me the most grief, just because you kinda have to hold the spark through jumps instead of storing it by pressing down. I did something similar but mine had like four jumps and was just me flailing out of control until suddenly I got the item.

I really feel like those things are the equivalent of doing fighting game combo trials, where you're just practicing your button presses until you execute right.

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ninkendo
10/16/21 9:22:32 PM
#179:


Overall I still think the ones in Fusion were more difficult to figure out than the ones in this game

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transience
10/16/21 9:29:12 PM
#180:


I don't think I ever bothered to get 100% in Fusion because you never really needed any missiles. you need them in Dread because they hit you so much harder.

but Fusion would probably be easier just because mmmmm dpad

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xyzzy
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ninkendo
10/16/21 10:00:42 PM
#181:


So including digital sales after one week metroid dread has pretty much outsold the lifetime sales of every game in the series

Hopefully Mercury steam gets a bigger budget for the next one

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StartTheMachine
10/16/21 10:49:41 PM
#182:


ninkendo posted...
So including digital sales after one week metroid dread has pretty much outsold the lifetime sales of every game in the series

Hopefully Mercury steam gets a bigger budget for the next one

This is awesome. I assume you don't mean every game in the series combined? With the Switch boost and the lackluster sales of the series overall, I could literally see that happening in the long run. Stoked. I hope Mercury Steam stays on the 2D Metroid projects, especially after how stellar Dread turned out.

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ninkendo
10/16/21 11:06:35 PM
#183:


Just individually not the whole series that would need to be well over 17 million to make that happen

Now granted luigi's mansion 3 is currently between 9 and 10 million sales so anything is possible on Switch

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StartTheMachine
10/17/21 12:59:59 AM
#184:


ninkendo posted...
Just individually not the whole series that would need to be well over 17 million to make that happen

Now granted luigi's mansion 3 is currently between 9 and 10 million sales so anything is possible on Switch

Ahh, I was thinking it was around 12 million combined but hadn't brushed up on the numbers in a long time. Yeah, definitely don't see it cracking that. 5 million plus would already be incredible for a Metroid game and that should very likely happen.

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red13n
10/18/21 2:27:30 AM
#185:


Got 100% items. Once you are comfortable with how the speed booster works I don't think any but one or two are really execution heavy with a full inventory of items. Mind you, a lot of items can be collected before intended and some of the execution for those were pretty crazy.

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MZero
10/18/21 3:57:01 AM
#186:


GuessMyUserName posted...
I'm glad it's really fixed my issue with Melee Counters in Samus Returns. It's no longer an essentially required way to deal with everything - or anything even, since even the enemies who like to get countered are easily kill-able with the beam. It's just a fun bonus to pull off that nets you extra energy/missiles when you do so, so maybe you'll be more conscious to use it when you're low.

I just came in here to ask about this since I was hesitant to buy Dread if it was as counter heavy as Samus Returns. Nothing against counters but it gets a little boring countering everything!

HeroDelTiempo17 posted...
I'm biased because I play a lot of HK randomizer

whoa whoa whoa I need to get in on this

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foolm0r0n
10/18/21 7:22:41 AM
#187:


I just did a really difficult bomb jump to skip an area that was like 2 screens before the double jump, so that was a waste of time. This bomb jump is so damn good though.

Also been experimenting with infinite wall jump-dash which seems doable but really precise.

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GANON1025
10/18/21 6:51:40 PM
#188:


Just finished it! 10:16 / 100% items. Final Boss was great, and not nearly as hard as I was expecting them to be. 100% was pretty breezy, only a couple of the shinespark puzzles tripped me up. Great game, will have to try hard mode sometime soon.

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Seanchan
10/18/21 9:37:41 PM
#189:


Also just finished! 11:15 / 90% items. Agree that the final fight and sequence was awesome and very satisfying. Not going to bother going for 100% as I don't care for those tough shinespark puzzles.

I also agree with someone earlier on, who said the most annoying part of the game was a particular EMMI sequence. I'm assuming you're talking about the blue one, before you have the gravity suit, and you've got to slooowly make your way through some flooded areas. I was ready to throw my Switch against the wall...

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Epyo
10/19/21 1:13:36 AM
#190:


Seanchan posted...
I also agree with someone earlier on, who said the most annoying part of the game was a particular EMMI sequence. I'm assuming you're talking about the blue one, before you have the gravity suit, and you've got to slooowly make your way through some flooded areas. I was ready to throw my Switch against the wall...

Yep, totally thought the emmi stuff was fine... until that


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red13n
10/19/21 1:18:50 AM
#191:


Seanchan posted...
Also just finished! 11:15 / 90% items. Agree that the final fight and sequence was awesome and very satisfying. Not going to bother going for 100% as I don't care for those tough shinespark puzzles.

None of them are that tough. If you are struggling with something you are missing something fundamental about how the shinespark works. There is only one that really takes a lot of execution and it really is just a couple walljumps into a slide.

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ninkendo
10/19/21 1:30:22 AM
#192:




I believe I can be satisfied with that

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StartTheMachine
10/19/21 1:54:11 AM
#193:


So there's no ending reward for 100% of items and it's just the Chozo Archive images huh? Definitely expected to see Samus's face for it at least.

Time for a hard mode speed run I suppose.

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ninkendo
10/19/21 2:01:12 AM
#194:


100% gets you the montage screenshot after unlocking all 8 chozo archives

Getting all 6 ending images unlocks the same montage screenshot but it's ZSS in the image instead of regular Samus

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Seanchan
10/19/21 6:51:37 AM
#195:


Epyo posted...
Yep, totally thought the emmi stuff was fine... until that

Yeah, I died a lot to the EMMIs but it felt fair. With that one, you HAD to really use the phantom cloak and hide. Which would have been fine if EMMI left the area but, at least for me, it always seemed to keep far too close, to the point where 2 seconds later it would be actively honing in on me again. At some point I just got lucky.

red13n posted...
None of them are that tough. If you are struggling with something you are missing something fundamental about how the shinespark works. There is only one that really takes a lot of execution and it really is just a couple walljumps into a slide.

The thing I couldn't understand is how to store the spark again after you've activated it. I was under the impression you need to do that for a few of those puzzles but maybe just a lack of imagination, instead of a lack of dexterity, on my part.

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WazzupGenius00
10/19/21 10:28:15 AM
#196:


if you spark into a sloped floor youll start running again and can re-store it. If thats not an option it probably requires some wall-jumping while speed boosted to reach the spot without storing the spark early

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HeroDelTiempo17
10/19/21 11:05:48 AM
#197:


MZero posted...
whoa whoa whoa I need to get in on this

@MZero
https://tinyurl.com/HollowKnightRandomizerGuide

Not to get too off topic but there's a quick guide for you that should work well enough. The most current stuff is always posted in the Hollow Knight speedrunning Discord.

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GANON1025
10/19/21 12:26:47 PM
#198:


I bought Hollow Knight years ago but never got a chance to try it out maybe its time to finally do that

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Seanchan
10/19/21 1:13:15 PM
#199:


GANON1025 posted...
I bought Hollow Knight years ago but never got a chance to try it out maybe its time to finally do that

Hollow Knight is GREAT! It starts off a bit slowly, and I know some people aren't fond of the map system. But it's atmosphere/tone/environmental storytelling reminded me of Super Metroid. Plus the exploration is just awesome. Easily one of my favorite games of the past decade.

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foolm0r0n
10/19/21 5:22:05 PM
#200:


Only thing I'm missing from the shinespark is how to stop a morph ball spark and re-direct it

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