Current Events > Foxnews takes the mask off. diversity,equity and inclusion are bad.

(+) Yeah! (+)

Gobstoppers12 posted...

It is.

It doesn't. It explicitly says that white people have help and you can help too.

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BlinxTheSweeper posted...

It doesn't. It explicitly says that white people have help and you can help too.

Well... while that's true. The overall structure is that most white people haven't helped and that "whiteness" itself is a condition one must overcome in order to be a better person.

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BeyondWalls posted...

Well... while that's true. The overall structure is that most white people haven't helped and that "whiteness" itself is a condition one must overcome in order to be a better person.

In the context of history is that not true?

The specific line is;

Many white people did things they never should have done.
Many other white people failed to see the problem with this.
These choices put wealth and power into white hands, homes and neighborhoods.

Some white people joined the leaders of Black liberation.

Racism it still happening.
It keeps changing and keeps being the same.

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BlinxTheSweeper posted...

These choices put wealth and power into white hands, homes and neighborhoods.

This right here is the part that makes it an accusation against all white people. They're now guilty by receiving. Read that page with the "contract" on it, in post #65.

That's pretty blatantly accusing "whiteness" of all of those traits. It's telling all white people that we don't do enough to compensate for what other people did in the past. Not us. Not even our families.

Our race.

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Gobstoppers12 posted...

This right here is the part that makes it an accusation against all white people. They're now guilty by receiving. Read that page with the "contract" on it, in post #65.

It's not about guilt or an accusation. Yes white people did those things in history and we benefited from that. Would you claim otherwise?

The page after that image literally says
"You can be white without signing on to whiteness"

Literally saying you don't have to sign that contract.

Then the final lines (or what it hopes the reader will be)

Grow justice inside yourself like a bean sprout in a milk carton.
A strong, internal sense of justice will not fail you-
even when a lack of justice in the world does.

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BlinxTheSweeper posted...

"You can be white without signing on to whiteness"

Which is in itself a bad thing. It's saying "Whiteness" is bad. It's telling white people that they should not embrace their own identity, or exist within their own culture. Whiteness is responsible for unspeakable evils.

"Whiteness."

Not individuals, not policies--"Whiteness"

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Gobstoppers12 posted...

Which is in itself a bad thing. It's saying "Whiteness" is bad. It's telling white people that they should not embrace their own identity, or exist within their own culture. Whiteness is responsible for unspeakable evils.

"Whiteness."

Not individuals, not policies--"Whiteness"

What do you think 'whiteness' as a culture is?

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Gobstoppers12 posted...

This right here is the part that makes it an accusation against all white people. They're now guilty by receiving. Read that page with the "contract" on it, in post #65.

That's pretty blatantly accusing "whiteness" of all of those traits. It's telling all white people that we don't do enough to compensate for what other people did in the past. Not us. Not even our families.

Our race.

The thing is, it was done on purpose, with the specific intention of benefiting white people as a race/class/category, and it in fact does that. Because of whiteness. Not literally because of your pale skin, but because people created a caste system in which things were taken from some and given to others or reserved for some and not others. That generated wealth. You can't just now turn around and ignore that and pretend we're all individuals that popped into existence 10 minutes ago with no connection to anyone else and no connection to history. Or I guess you can because that's pretty damn convenient and it's what most people do.

We're not the ones who created those categories or that effect, but we all have to deal with it. As individuals and as a collective because that's what it took to get here. Acting as groups.

You shouldn't feel "guilty" about that, just like I don't feel "guilty" about all the benefits that accrued to men from thousands of years of patriarchy and control. But the non-sociopathic reaction is to recognize that fucked up things happened and are happening and do what you can individually and collectively to fix it so that the same outcomes don't reoccur and injustice isn't perpetuated and passed down to yet another generation of the deprived and the beneficiaries of the depriving.


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BlinxTheSweeper posted...

In the context of history is that not true?

I said in another post, if you want to argue that point you can. I'm just saying I don't think it's appropriate for elementary school kids. For one, I don't think their tiny little brains can process the complex social problems the book is trying to get at. You've got a book teaching about voting rights, bank loans, and bigoted social reactions to children still learning basic reading. You might as well have the Easter Bunny come in and teach Trig. Like, the kids are just not going to get out of it what you want them to get out of it. All they're going to take away is the imagery, and the imagery is that "whiteness" is something wrong that needs to be fixed.

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legendary_zell posted...

But the non-sociopathic reaction is to recognize that fucked up things happened and are happening and do what you can individually and collectively to fix it

I agree, but I don't think the right call is to literally demonize "Whiteness"

The imagery in the book includes a cartoonish devil tail. It's about as close to "white devil" as an allegory can get. White people are the villains in this story; white people are the ones who made the world hell. It's frustrating that you and others like you can't see the problem with such careless comparisons and outright statements of "whiteness = evil"

If you think "whiteness" is the problem, fuck off with that noise. I don't have time for that kind of racial bias and hatred.

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BlinxTheSweeper posted...

What do you think 'whiteness' as a culture is?

I feel like "whiteness" is just the condition of being white. It's such a general term that it's hard to nail down specifics--if you take this book's word for it, whiteness is literally the devil.

What do you think "blackness" as a culture is?

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Gobstoppers12 posted...

The imagery in the book includes a cartoonish devil tail. It's about as close to "white devil" as an allegory can get. White people are the villains in this story; white people are the ones who made the world hell. It's frustrating that you and others like you can't see the problem with such careless comparisons and outright statements of "whiteness = evil"

So what is the defining act of 'whiteness' culture in history in the context of other races then?

Gobstoppers12 posted...

I feel like "whiteness" is just the condition of being white. It's such a general term that it's hard to nail down specifics--if you take this book's word for it, whiteness is literally the devil.

What do you think "blackness" as a culture is?

The book lays down the term for you.

It's not a 'condition of being white' whatever that means.

I don't speak for 'blackness' culture. Not up to me to define that.

Also just a heads up you should probably read the bottom term of the contract you're referring to. It's meant to be a lie.

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Gobstoppers12 posted...

I agree, but I don't think the right call is to literally demonize "Whiteness"

The imagery in the book includes a cartoonish devil tail. It's about as close to "white devil" as an allegory can get. White people are the villains in this story; white people are the ones who made the world hell. It's frustrating that you and others like you can't see the problem with such careless comparisons and outright statements of "whiteness = evil"

If you think "whiteness" is the problem, fuck off with that noise. I don't have time for that kind of racial bias and hatred.

Unfortunately, that's what fucking happened. White people did a lot of unspeakable things under the specific banner of whiteness, because of whiteness, to preserve the separation and caste system that placed whiteness above anything else. They did it because they were taught that they were better than others because they were in that made up category called white.

If you're mad that whiteness as a concept has a bad connotation, that's because it's never been used for anything good or led to anything good. The category has always been a tool to divide and conquer.

That does not mean individual white human beings or people with pale skin are bad. Criticizing the specific social practice of categorizing some people as white and others as non-white and everything that's come with that does not mean that you are automatically bad simply for being white. Whiteness as a concept is bad. Being white/pale/lightskinned/descended from Europeans is not bad. Do you understand?


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Southernfatman posted...

If you're still a part of the Republican party, the party that promotes this kind of crap and is all about bigotry and hatred towards minorities of many kinds, yes it does speak for you. FN is the GOP propaganda arm.

I have to agree and I hate to do so.

I'm not a Republican, nor am I a Democrat. There are stances on the left I agree with and stances on the right I agree with. Whatever a person's political stance, whatever their key values, at some point voting comes down to priorities. In that regard, the fight against fascism must take precedence over everything else.

The GOP is rapidly devolving into a hate group and many non-bigots still align with them out of fear of the socialist boogeyman. If the choice for tomorrow's America was the choice between socialist America or white supremacist America, every decent person should readily choose the former rather than the latter.

If you can't win the election without getting elbow to elbow with the worst sort of scum, if the consequences of your victory are going to hurt more people than if the other party had simply won, it's time to admit you're outvoted. To pursue victory no matter who it harms can only represent a moral failing.

Whatever people on the right think they're fighting, it can't be worse than what they've aligned themselves with.

creativerealms posted...

To br fair Ingraham never wore a mask.

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BlinxTheSweeper posted...

The book lays down the term for you.

BlinxTheSweeper posted...

I don't speak for 'blackness' culture. Not up to me to define that.

If only the author of this book were as humble as you, we wouldn't be having this useless debate at all. They don't speak for me, either. They don't speak for my culture.

BlinxTheSweeper posted...

So what is the defining act of 'whiteness' culture in history in the context of other races then?

If this is your way of saying that "the book is right and white culture is evil" then I'm just going to stop responding to you, because that's reductive and insulting.

If that's not what you're implying, then feel free to tell me what you think the answer to that question is.

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BlinxTheSweeper posted...

"You can be white without signing on to whiteness"

Replace the word white with black or hispanic or anything other group and it's hugely racist.

AKA it's blatant racism aimed at children.

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ColdOne666 posted...

BlinxTheSweeper posted...

"You can be white without signing on to whiteness"

Replace the word white with black or hispanic or anything other group and it's hugely racist.

AKA it's blatant racism aimed at children.

only tone deaf people who don't understand context or the history of the social construct would think that.

so it's a good thing we don't need to entertain ignorant interpretations.
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Gobstoppers12 posted...

If only the author of this book were as humble as you, we wouldn't be having this useless debate at all. They don't speak for me, either. They don't speak for my culture.

If this is your way of saying that "the book is right and white culture is evil" then I'm just going to stop responding to you, because that's reductive and insulting.

If that's not what you're implying, then feel free to tell me what you think the answer to that question is.

Why are you so defensive of white culture if you can't even define it?

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BlinxTheSweeper posted...

Why are you so defensive of white culture if you can't even define it?

This is an extremely disingenuous question. It's akin to asking:

"Why is it bad to judge people by the color of their skin?"

Stop acting like it's perfectly okay to paint a culture with a broad brush, then liken their skin color (or their 'whiteness') to the literal devil. It's insulting, and the more you try to beat around the bush, the more I think you're just being intentionally obtuse.

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Gobstoppers12 posted...

This is an extremely disingenuous question. It's akin to asking:

"Why is it bad to judge people by the color of their skin?"

It isn't a disingenuous question at all because it challenges the presupposition that you're enforcing; that there is a white culture in America that exists and must be defended.

I've seen black people define black culture in the context of America as something that exists due to the shared lived nature of black people in America and their shared struggles.

Struggles that, may I add, were enforced upon them by white people. Had white people not enforced upon them these struggles, it would stand to reason that a unique yet ubiquitous black American culture likely would not have developed.

And no, I'm not suggesting every black American in the country is 100% unified on this at all, but the establishing of the existence of such a culture does, in my observation, give black Americans a general feeling of solidarity and community in a country that has had this very specific history with black people.

I really don't think there's an equivalent for the American white person.

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Gobstoppers12 posted...

BlinxTheSweeper posted...

Why are you so defensive of white culture if you can't even define it?

This is an extremely disingenuous question.

what's stopping you from giving a genuine answer?

what do you believe you're defending?
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RickyTheBAWSE posted...

only tone deaf people who don't understand context or the history of the social construct would think that.

or y'know little kids

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RickyTheBAWSE posted...

what's stopping you from giving a genuine answer?

Your arguments, your tone in general, your strange questions. The answer to "what is white culture" is the sort of thing that could fill a book. White culture is the collective culture of people who are white, and there are hundreds of different microcosms beneath the single umbrella.

Also, there's a famous quote that applies here: "I can't define it, but I know it when I see it." Even without an easy definition, I know it when I see it. I defend it because it's the right thing to do.

When individuals with spite, resentment, and hatred in their hearts collectively attack the culture of an entire ethnicity, I think it's worth pushing back against that.

ScazarMeltex posted...

He knows what he's defending, he also knows that it's essentially indefensible

Correct me if I'm wrong, but... are you saying that whiteness is indefensible?

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Gobstoppers12 posted...

White culture is the collective culture of people who are white, and there are hundreds of different microcosms beneath the single umbrella.

EDIT: Sorry, let me try that again.

What would you say is common to every white person's experience that all white people can identify with?

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CyricZ posted...

What would you say is common to every white person's experience that all white people can identify with?

The fact that they have white skin, for starters.

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CyricZ posted...

EDIT: Sorry, let me try that again.

What would you say is common to every white person's experience that all white people can identify with?

Ray-Ban sunglasses and Justin Timberlake obviously.

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would be nice if Gobstoppers were capable of elaborating the way Cyric did for Blackness. instead he exposed his extremely limited capabilities with a half assed, anti-intellectual take.. and you had a great example of what elaboration looked like to follow, lmao.

ledbowman posted...

RickyTheBAWSE posted...

only tone deaf people who don't understand context or the history of the social construct would think that.

or y'know little kids

it's funny how Black kids on average have to be much more hyper aware about their identities from childhood, but White kids somehow aren't expected to possess such basics. sounds inherently racist, don't you think?

playing dumb is a short-sighted approach to this argument, lol. these same kids are expected to comprehend a man being tortured for their sins so they can get to Heaven as little kids. kids this age go to school and repeat slurs to other children that they got from their parents.

but I see what you're doing and you don't seem to have enough backbone to do more than scratch the surface on this topic. I won't try to get anything else out of you, so don't worry about it.
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Gobstoppers12 posted...

The fact that they have white skin, for starters.

Uh huh. Uh huh.

Anything else?

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CyricZ posted...

Uh huh. Uh huh.

Anything else?

Canary yellow Lacoste polos.

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RickyTheBAWSE posted...

would be nice if Gobstoppers were capable of elaborating the way Cyric did for Blackness. instead he exposed his extremely limited capabilities with a half assed, anti-intellectual take.. and you had a great example of what elaboration looked like to follow, lmao.

it's funny how Black kids on average have to be much more hyper aware about their identities from childhood, but White kids somehow aren't expected to possess such basics. sounds inherently racist, don't you think?

playing dumb is a short-sighted approach to this argument, lol. these same kids are expected to comprehend a man being tortured for their sins so they can get to Heaven as little kids. kids this age go to school and repeat slurs to other children that they got from their parents.

but I see what you're doing and you don't seem to have enough backbone to do more than scratch the surface on this topic. I won't try to get anything else out of you, so don't worry about it.

yeah man just spew some tangential bullshit and declare victory

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"Whiteness" only exists as a concept to exclude others who aren't considered white. There is no identity or philosophy behind "whiteness" aside from that. So yes, whiteness is evil.

Whiteness was even more exclusive at one point lol. had to draft from Greeks, Irish and other groups over time just to inflate numbers.

it's so arbitrary that people clinging to it just look desperate for validation.

the tradegy of an identity crisis...
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Gobstoppers12 posted...

The fact that they have white skin, for starters.

Historically untrue. Ask the Irish, Italians and Jewish people, who were considered the "other" until it suited white supremacy to include them (and even then, Jews are still separated.)

Background_Guy posted...

"Whiteness" only exists as a concept to exclude others who aren't considered white. There is no identity or philosophy behind "whiteness" aside from that. So yes, whiteness is evil.

Pretty much this.

Background_Guy posted...

"Whiteness" only exists as a concept to exclude others who aren't considered white. There is no identity or philosophy behind "whiteness" aside from that. So yes, whiteness is evil.

This is so dumb. This is like idiots who say theres no white culture. Of course there is, youre living in it. I mean, every group on the planet is going to have its own culture. I cant help it if you cant see it because youre standing in the middle of it. Im sure theres an Indian guy right now standing in the middle of India claiming theres no Indian culture. I guess sometimes its hard to see when it completely surrounds you.

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BeyondWalls posted...

This is so dumb. This is like idiots who say theres no white culture. Of course there is, youre living in it. I mean, every group on the planet is going to have its own culture. I cant help it if you cant see it because youre standing in the middle of it. Im sure theres an Indian guy right now standing in the middle of India claiming theres no Indian culture. I guess sometimes its hard to see when it completely surrounds you.

What are some of the unifying traits of "white culture?" Because there's definitely unifying traits for "Indian culture."

BeyondWalls posted...

Of course there is, youre living in it.

Me sitting on a computer posting on CE is white culture?

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you probably sound hilarious singing Amazing Grace with all that tone deafness
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yall will never just be straightforward about this shit. you have everybody tagged as nazi so you won't give one inch and acknowledge that describing racism as whiteness is maybe not the best way of talking about this especially to 1st graders, that it could instill self hatred, that you wouldn't do that other races, so you twist into a pretzel and start asking 20 questions and giving side quests because you have no leg to stand on

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ledbowman posted...

yall will never just be straightforward about this shit. you have everybody tagged as nazi so you won't give one inch and acknowledge that describing racism as whiteness is maybe not the best way of talking about this especially to 1st graders, that it could instill self hatred, that you wouldn't do that other races, so you twist into a pretzel and start asking 20 questions and giving side quests because you have no leg to stand on

People only asked one question, which has yet to be answered actually.

lolife67 posted...

People only asked one question, which has yet to be answered actually.

what an invaluable post

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lolife67 posted...

What are some of the unifying traits of "white culture?"

Birkenstocks on socks

ledbowman posted...

what an invaluable post

Is this irony or hypocrisy? You could always answer my question if you're really interested in having a conversation.

lololol!
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lolife67 posted...

Is this irony or hypocrisy? You could always answer my question if you're really interested in having a conversation.

shut the fuck up

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ledbowman posted...

shut the fuck up

Lol so not interested in actually discussing things then? As this is our first interaction, I appreciate you making your trolling known upfront.

no i'm not interested in playing your word games when you know what -ness means

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ledbowman posted...

no i'm not interested in playing your word games when you know what -ness means

Actually I don't. At least, not what you'd define it as. That's how discussions work. You ask questions for the other person to explain their points if you don't agree/know. That's not a "word game."

lolife67 posted...

People only asked one question, which has yet to be answered actually.

If youre asking what defines white culture then Ill tell you why I havent answered the question. Because it will spin the thread into a never ending argument about what culture can claim what thing. And thats because here in America weve operated under the melting pot philosophy for so long that I dont believe there are any hard lines between cultures anymore. Not here in the US. A key component of white culture in the US is absorbing aspects from other cultures into itself. So its going to be counterproductive to start debating the origins of every thing I list. Because youre right. A lot of aspects of white culture didnt originate with white people. But thats not to say that a culture of shared history, traditions, and customs dont exist now. And thats also not to say that those history, traditions, and customs dont cross over with other American cultures. Youre looking for hard lines where there arent any. But that doesnt mean white culture doesnt exist.

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