Poll of the Day > As a system capitalism only serves some of the people

(+) Yeah! (+)

For it to function, the vast majority of people must fail.

Its a con.

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communism/socialism is worse
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Krazy_Kirby posted...

communism/socialism is worse

so what new thing can we think up? Something with crypto probably. Algorithms. NFTs, obviously.

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Krazy_Kirby posted...

communism/socialism is worse

Lung cancer is bad but don't worry, brain cancer is worse!

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Metalsonic66 posted...

Lung cancer is bad but don't worry, brain cancer is worse!

Don't worry , someday humans will discover a totally non- cancerous society. (Yeah right)
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Oh look, the zero sum fallacy

You take what each system has good to offer and you leave out the oppressive shit and then when ten years goes by you rework it again.

Communism on its own is shit.
Capitalism on its own is shit.

Maybe find a way to put them together?

Maybe life isn't just black and white?

Maybe you need to look beyond face value to see what truly works and what doesn't?

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Capitalism doesn't need anybody to fail and in fact works better with more participants.

Communism, however, requires people be conscripted to work the state sees fit to deserve rations.
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Capitalism is just a hustle.

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Llamachama posted...

Maybe you need to look beyond face value to see what truly works and what doesn't?

Did that, we basically landed on social democracies funded by capitalism.
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Llamachama posted...

You take what each system has good to offer and you leave out the oppressive shit and then when ten years goes by you rework it again.

Communism on its own is shit.
Capitalism on its own is shit.

Maybe find a way to put them together?

Maybe life isn't just black and white?

Maybe you need to look beyond face value to see what truly works and what doesn't?

Pretty much, which is why we use a mostly capitalist system with socialist policies here and there to patch the holes. The problem arises when people buy into the "socialism is categorically evil in every way" propaganda and applaud the elites' efforts to erode the socialist protections so they can become even more powerful at the expense of everyone else.

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Kyuubi4269 posted...

Capitalism doesn't need anybody to fail and in fact works better with more participants.

Capitalism absolutely requires a lower class and homelessness in order to threaten its workers with how much worse it could be for them.

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Zareth posted...

Capitalism absolutely requires a lower class and homelessness in order to threaten its workers with how much worse it could be for them.

A class system naturally arises from any meritocratic system, and how does homelessness benefit capitalism? If people can't operate, they're less capable of producing capital, which makes them less capable of adding to the economy (which is the whole point).
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Kyuubi4269 posted...

how does homelessness benefit capitalism?

By threatening them with job loss and homelessness if they don't accept poor working conditions and pay, while also demoralizing them with the fact that they are expendable and replaceable.

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Zareth posted...

By threatening them with job loss and homelessness if they don't accept poor working conditions and pay, while also demoralizing them with the fact that they are expendable and replaceable.

And that benefits capitalism how? It benefits that employer, but it almost certainly reduces overall capital generated in the system.
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Kyuubi4269 posted...

And that benefits capitalism how? It benefits that employer, but it almost certainly reduces overall capital generated in the system.

wow you dont pay attention at all do you?


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UnMead posted...

wow you dont pay attention at all do you?

You didn't pay attention to your wife.
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Personal attacks like that are genuinely hurtful.

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UnMead posted...

Personal attacks like that are genuinely hurtful.

Don't act like a dick if you don't want talk back.
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Kyuubi4269 posted...

Don't act like a dick if you don't want talk back.

Im gonna act how I feel is appropriate for the message I want to get across, but that isnt an invitation for you to attack me over difficulties I am having in my personal life

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UnMead posted...

Im gonna act how I feel is appropriate for the message I want to get across, but that isnt an invitation for you to attack me over difficulties I am having in my personal life

It absolutely is. If you feel it's appropriate to run your mouth, I will do the same. If you want to be treated gently, speak the same.
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Kyuubi4269 posted...

It absolutely is. If you feel it's appropriate to run your mouth, I will do the same. If you want to be treated gently, speak the same.

Im gonna keep saying what I think about things. If that pisses you off then that is your problem.

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UnMead posted...

Im gonna keep saying what I think about things. If that pisses you off then that is your problem.

Evidently it became your problem when I said what I think about things.
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Kyuubi4269 posted...

Evidently it became your problem when I said what I think about things.

Trust me comments like that arent as effective as you think. They make me feel sad only for the person who posted them. The highest form of wisdom is kindness.

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Nobody cares what you think, dude.
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Kyuubi4269 posted...

Nobody cares what you think, dude.

You clearly seem to

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Nah, I would like you to stop derailing the topic though.
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Kyuubi4269 posted...

Nah, I would like you to stop derailing the topic though.

maybe you shouldnt have attacked me regarding my divorce then

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That's what you get for derailing the topic
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Kyuubi4269 posted...

That's what you get for derailing the topic

I didnt do that my dude, I cast doubt on your view regarding capitalism because I think it is clearly wrong. Actually look at the posts.

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Kyuubi4269 posted...

and how does homelessness benefit capitalism?

You have literally and explicitly tried to convince me that the threat of homelessness is necessary to drive people to be as productive as possible. In no uncertain terms, in the context of you insisting that eliminating the risk of homelessness (specifically by providing housing to anyone that needed it) would be a bad thing.

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UnMead posted...

For it to function, the vast majority of people must fail.

it depends. there's some interesting stuff I was listening to a while ago, and according to that view it's more that "capitalism" tends towards inequality. it's not necessary, just the tendency.

by this view, "capitalism" is essentially "autocratic business", which is something I've always wondered: why are businesses basically dictatorships (maybe more correctly autocracies), and why does everyone think that's ok?

"socialism" in this view is the opposite: "democratic business". so, co-ops, and other forms of business where the employees of the business own the business.

this view suggests (something like) that "capitalist" (autocratic) businesses will tend towards inequality, and "socialist" (democratic) businesses will tend towards equality. (I can't really summarize it very accurately though since I've only heard a little of this.)

I don't know if this view is correct or not but it sure fits with a lot of my intuitions around what is wrong with business.

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This topic isnt about socialism or communism.

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UnMead posted...

This topic isnt about socialism or communism.

I don't know what you're trying to say besides being the usual bully, but it's about economics which includes "socialism"

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Sahuagin posted...

I don't know what you're trying to say besides being the usual bully, but it's about economics which includes "socialism"

In what way was I bullying? This topic is a critique of capitalism not an open endorsement of socialism and/or communism

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UnMead posted...

In what way was I bullying? This topic is a critique of capitalism not an open endorsement of socialism and/or communism

are you saying "not necessarily an endorsement of socialism" or "don't talk about socialism" or "talk about capitalism because I say so" or?

do you have anything to say as an actual response of what I said?

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UnMead posted...

This topic is a critique of capitalism not an open endorsement of socialism and/or communism

It's kind of hard to critique capitalism without considering or commenting on the alternatives.

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I don't think you are bullying but I also don't understand what the point of this topic is if you're gonna be like "socialism isn't relevant".

I'm also curious how you think crypto and NFTs are going to save us. People being lucky/shrewd enough to cash out on speculative investments isn't some new futuristic concept. How exactly is this going to scale, or get out us out of capitalism when people are already doing it under capitalism. The only argument I've really seen that's true and not just distorted info/pure speculation is some people who wouldn't normally be wealthy were able to build wealth. But I fail to see how having a few more rich people is really a radical change from the current system

Sahuagin posted...

are you saying "not necessarily an endorsement of socialism" or "don't talk about socialism" or "talk about capitalism because I say so" or?

do you have anything to say as an actual response of what I said?

you can talk about whatever you want I was just making a statement broadly that this topic isnt an open endorsement of socialism or communism because many posts seem to be criticizing those government structures.

I was not trying to single you out or bully you, if it came across that way or if I have been rude to you in the past then Im sorry about that.

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CoorsLight posted...

I'm also curious how you think crypto and NFTs are going to save us.

I think he was joking

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CoorsLight posted...

I don't think you are bullying but I also don't understand what the point of this topic is if you're gonna be like "socialism isn't relevant".

I'm also curious how you think crypto and NFTs are going to save us. People being lucky/shrewd enough to cash out on speculative investments isn't some new futuristic concept. How exactly is this going to scale, or get out us out of capitalism when people are already doing it under capitalism

my dude that is called a joke

meant to stimulate the cerebral humors

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UnMead posted...

I was not trying to single you out or bully you, if it came across that way or if I have been rude to you in the past then Im sorry about that.

my experience is that a large percentage of your posts are telling other people what to say or not to say (think or not to think), rather than actually communicating, that is what I meant by bullying

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Sahuagin posted...

my experience is that a large percentage of your posts are telling other people what to say or not to say (think or not to think), rather than actually communicating, that is what I meant by bullying

well thank you for that criticism, I will try to keep it in mind when I post

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I mean, I thought it was one of those "I'm joking but I sorta believe it too" posts. You've shown some enthusiasm towards that stuff before

UnMead posted...

this topic isnt an open endorsement of socialism or communism because many posts seem to be criticizing those government structures.

Who cares what people think though, especially when it's primarily radical right wing people like KKrazy_Kirby and Kyuubi. If you don't believe in them that's fine but this makes it sound like you just view them as "taboo" and that's exactly how capitalists want it to be framed so there's a perception of no viable alternatives

CoorsLight posted...

I'm also curious how you think crypto and NFTs are going to save us. People being lucky/shrewd enough to cash out on speculative investments isn't some new futuristic concept. How exactly is this going to scale, or get out us out of capitalism when people are already doing it under capitalism

There's some merit in that crypto exchanges exist outside of the established regulatory framework of the traditional economy, which have generally been manipulated to serve those already in power (see: Robinhood shutting down trades when common folk were making a bunch of money selling Gamestop stock and the hedge funds got butthurt), plus it's a lot harder for governments to restrict their value and they aren't tied to any particular industry (see: what happens to the currency exchange rates of any country that depends heavily on oil when oil prices go down/up) but ultimately, crypto's just another medium for rich people to gamble within. It's fundamentally no different from foreign currency investment plans that have been around forever. It's just more unpredictable.

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CoorsLight posted...

I mean, I thought it was one of those "I'm joking but I sorta believe it too" posts. You've shown some enthusiasm towards that stuff before

Who cares what people think though, especially when it's primarily radical right wing people like KKrazy_Kirby and Kyuubi. If you don't believe in them that's fine but this makes it sound like you just view them as "taboo" and that's exactly how capitalists want it to be framed so there's a perception of no viable alternatives

blah blah blah I dont like what mead chooses to say or how he chooses to say

join the club Im gonna keep being me

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Sahuagin posted...

my experience is that a large percentage of your posts are telling other people what to say or not to say (think or not to think), rather than actually communicating

Okay yeah I see what you mean here

CoorsLight posted...

Okay yeah I see what you mean here

I speak my mind and shoot from the hip

Its the only way I operate. If I ever hurt feelings or egos or am just annoying then Im sorry about that. It usually isnt my intent and Im trying to learn how to be better

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My feelings aren't hurt by this at all, and I don't claim to never take an abrasive tone, but I don't really get what you get out of making topics like this about a serious subject and then not really engaging with it. I mean it is a waste of time to try having big serious discussions on PotD, but I don't think you realize how smug and dismissive you tend to come off, and why make the topic in the first place