Current Events > It's funny how many nerves TLoU2 struck. *spoilers*

(+) Yeah! (+)

Seriously. There are three categories I've noticed:
1. The game is trashy woke nonsense pandering to the SJW crowds with Abby and Lev (the lol-est opinion)
2. The game is garbage for making you kill Joel and/or making you play as the person who killed Joel (the most basic opinion, really)
3. It's one of the greatest games of all time; an epic journey filled with emotion (My opinion)

I just don't get it. And it's not even just on GFAQs. I've heard these things from people in person.

2, but add Ellies stupid forgiving of said killer to the mix.

caring about lou2 in any way is a sure sign of terminal fail brain

Sounds like you're just triggered that people are criticizing a game you like

I thought it was a really fun game with incredible attention to detail, but I was more invested in the previous game's story. For some reason the characters weren't as engrossing to me as they were in the first game, I don't know why.

BakonBitz posted...

I thought it was a really fun game with incredible attention to detail, but I was more invested in the previous game's story. For some reason the characters weren't as engrossing to me as they were in the first game, I don't know why.

I had the same feeling.

PuppetPalClem posted...

2, but add Ellies stupid forgiving of said killer to the mix.

she didn't forgive Abby, she just let her go, largely for (my view) Lev's sake.

I dislike it mostly cause of the unnecessary character assasination, the retcons, and the lying advertising

I legitimately do not care about the whinging associated with the game.

I felt it was simply too long, and offered far too little dialogue during key moments of the game multiple times over simply to continue the 'revenge breeds revenge' mantra.

It did have improved gunplay and fluidity of movement compared to the original, very much so which made many of the levels feel great to play. Far too many shooting galleries though.

I also didn't feel particularly emotional about it whatsoever during the run. As a father myself, I very much enjoyed the museum flashback segment and thought it very well done for such a small period of the game.

It was solid, glad I bought it at launch with no regrets, but I don't feel that either title deserves the ridiculous amount of praise they get.

I havent played the game so seeing people endlessly seethe about it one way or the other feels like a fever dream

Drrobotniks posted...

I dislike it mostly cause of the unnecessary character assasination, the retcons, and the lying advertising

What character assassinations? Where there any retcons? How did the advertising lie?

SalazarCrane posted...

What character assassinations?

Did you even play the game?

YugiNoob posted...

Sounds like you're just triggered that people are criticizing a game you like

This sounds about right.

It was funny when Neil Druckman appeared in the video game awards and then the chat in the stream went crazy with 'boooo' and 'ewww'.

PuppetPalClem posted...

Did you even play the game?

Yes. Everyone was as they were in the first game.

YugiNoob posted...

Sounds like you're just triggered that people are criticizing a game you like

Bingo.

SalazarCrane posted...

Yes. Everyone was as they were in the first game.

Nope.

SalazarCrane posted...

How did the advertising lie?

there was a commercial where Joel showed up, but in the actual game, it was a character named Jesse, since Joel was already dead by that point.

but that bit of advertising was presented without any context, and while Joel wasn't in that particular scene, his presence was peppered throughout the game. the only reason why someone would focus on that were if they were nitpicking, because there are multiple scenes with Joel by way of flashbacks.

I sided with Joel at the end of the first game for a whole host of reasons, and was then basically told, "Fuck you, you're wrong for interpreting that ambiguous ending the way you did."

TLoU2 is little more to me than very well produced misery porn. As far as I'm concerned, Joel and Ellie's story ended with the first one.

UnholyMudcrab posted...

I sided with Joel at the end of the first game for a whole host of reasons, and was then basically told, "Fuck you, you're wrong for interpreting that ambiguous ending the way you did."

TLoU2 is little more to me than very well produced misery porn. As far as I'm concerned, Joel and Ellie's story ended with the first one.

These opinions I never understood because honestly people put too much of themselves into these characters. You're just along for the ride. You're playing their progression but you don't get to determine the type of person/character you want them to be. They are who they are.

The end of the first game didn't seem ambiguous at all? Dude murdered a hospital full of people for nothing. Even Ellie didn't believe his explanation for leaving.

UnholyMudcrab posted...

I sided with Joel at the end of the first game for a whole host of reasons, and was then basically told, "Fuck you, you're wrong for interpreting that ambiguous ending the way you did."

TLoU2 is little more to me than very well produced misery porn. As far as I'm concerned, Joel and Ellie's story ended with the first one.

TLoU2 doesn't invalidate that interpretation of the ending of the first game, though; we know that Ellie has doubts but chooses to trust Joel.

and during the flashbacks, we see just that, but there's enough nagging in the back of her head that she feels that she has to find out for herself, and in the process, finds out that Joel didn't just lie to her, but also killed a lot of people in the process of saving her.

UnholyMudcrab posted...

I sided with Joel at the end of the first game for a whole host of reasons, and was then basically told, "Fuck you, you're wrong for interpreting that ambiguous ending the way you did."

There was nothing ambiguous about it though

UnholyMudcrab posted...

TLoU2 is little more to me than very well produced misery porn

Because the first game was so bright and cheerful

SalazarCrane posted...

Yes. Everyone was as they were in the first game.

i can tell you havent played the game

or just trolling

either one

I feel like, if someone doesn't understand what you mean by "character assassination", you should at least tell them what you mean

g0ldie posted...

I feel like, if someone doesn't understand what you mean by "character assassination", you should at least tell them what you mean

I'll copy paste the thing i said about Ellie then

Ellie in the first game was a great and lovable character, one of the reasons why people loved the first game so much was because it was their goal to keep her safe, and her developing over time was a satisfying goal to experience, she was funny, witty, a smart allec with a smart mouth, curious, upbeat and she was just as human as joel when it came to moments of fear and weakness.

She had a fun and likeable personality that made you want to spend time with her. But in this game, you just feel areally uncomfortable around her. All of her personality has been stripped away, turning her into a revenge obssessed idiot. she no lie acts like a really bad edgelord throughout the entirety of the game, and if you want to say that this is a reasonable reaction to watching a loved one get murdered, that doesnt justify ellie's chracter being so unlikeable, It's one thing to want to avenge joel's death, but she just goes on a blind, murderous rampage.

Every scene with ellie in this game with her extremely aggressive behavior, every dialogue that comes out of her mouth sounds like she's psychotic. None of the stuff Joel did that was shown in the first game came near to what Ellie does in this game. horrifiyng or not. And despite being the hero we're supposed to sympathize with, the devs take every route they can think of to make her look really evil. Abandoning Dina and her baby? Check, threatening people that had nothing to do with Joel's death? check.

And to top it all off, She kills a pregnant woman, and the game never bothers to focus on that except for making her feel horrified in that singular moment. *That* shouldve been the moment Ellie realizes that revenge isn't worth it, because she ended up killing an unborn baby in blind rage. If they wanted to make Ellie sympathetic, then make THAT moment make ellie realize that revenge turns you into a monster. Not the half assed excuse for an ending that happns in game.

Even outside of the whole grimdark revenge stuff, the way ellie is characterized throughout the game just feels wrong. In the intro she turns down a very genuine apology from someone who was humbly admitting that they were acting inappropriate, but she doesn't forgive him, and calls him a bigot. Her attitude comes off as entitled and unappreciative.

And throughout the game she does nothing but mope and complain, and they made her really really dumb for some reason. When talking to Tommy about going after abby, he brings up some very good points as to why she shouldn't charge off alone. And she's just like "whatever", and in her first fight with abby, the way that you beat her is to catch her from behind enough times to subdue her. Not only is that lazy, but it's really out of character for Ellie. I just find her boring too.

The Ellie we grew to like in the first game was nothing like this. She was just so much more interesting there because her character was given more to work with. She was just as flawed as joel which gave players something to relate to. Like in Left Behind, we see how close her and Riley were, and how their interactions were amazing. Even after Riley's death, Ellie was never shown to be emo or grimdark or anything like how she is now

In this game, I cant name a single good quality about Ellie either, and thats the problem with her character in this game--It has no substance. She's nothing more than a revenge obsessed freak in a game where every other character is a revenge obsessed freak. This is what I meant by character assasination

Drrobotniks posted...

I remember addressing a lot of this in the other topic, and I've got to disagree with this take.

1. you're saying that we never see Joel behave like Ellie does in TLoU2 - we don't get to see Joel in a comparable situation. after Sarah dies, there's a huge time gap. and from what we hear, he was a terrible person during that span.
2. Ellie killing the pregnant woman, Mel, does have a huge effect on her. she's about to abandon going after Abby because of it, but Abby ambushes them in the theater before they have a chance to leave
3. when Ellie kills the WLF & Scars, it's after they've been trying to kill her first, and after she kills a bunch, you can see and hear how she refers to them, which is a dehumanizing tactic. it's not a good thing, of course, but it's something people do in real life when they kill others so that they don't go insane
4. there's also the fact that Ellie is an awkward teen; we see glimpses of her old personality, but she's in a weird place between adolescence and adulthood
5. her turning down Seth's apology was to foreshadow that she holds on to a grudge, but he insulted her literally the night before. maybe give her some time to get over it.

Doom_Art posted...

Because the first game was so bright and cheerful

Well, it wasn't a cheerful game, but it had a slight hope of an optimistic future for the main characters. TLOU2 works to shit on everything they ever had and the "good moments" are just flashbacks to the past.

g0ldie posted...

I remember addressing a lot of this in the other topic, and I've got to disagree with this take.

1. you're saying that we never see Joel behave like Ellie does in TLoU2 - we don't get to see Joel in a comparable situation. after Sarah dies, there's a huge time gap. and from what we hear, he was a terrible person during that span.
2. Ellie killing the pregnant woman, Mel, does have a huge effect on her. she's about to abandon going after Abby because of it, but Abby ambushes them in the theater before they have a chance to leave
3. when Ellie kills the WLF & Scars, it's after they've been trying to kill her first, and after she kills a bunch, you can see and hear how she refers to them, which is a dehumanizing tactic. it's not a good thing, of course, but it's something people do in real life when they kill others so that they don't go insane
4. there's also the fact that Ellie is an awkward teen; we see glimpses of her old personality, but she's in a weird place between adolescence and adulthood
5. her turning down Seth's apology was to foreshadow that she holds on to a grudge, but he insulted her literally the night before. maybe give her some time to get over it.

On top of all this, Ellie had been acting differently towards Joel ever since he told her they found the fireflies and they stopped looking for a cure. It was made even worse when he lied to her face about it. Then they show her being awkward with Joel up until she finds out the truth and they have their falling out. All of this on top of her coming out in a VERY small community. Literally all of her actions make sense. The only part I have a harder time understanding is her letting Abby go at the very end.

I went in completely blind and still didnt like it. Pretty much every character that wasn't Jessie was insufferable and the only enjoyable bits were the flashbacks. I didn't need it to be more of the first game but, like another poster said, I found it to be a miserable experience.

Gameplay was good though.

iirc, with the ending of TLoU2, Druckmann said something about how Ellie spared Abby because she knew that she would also have to kill Lev or let Lev go, and risk that he would come after her in return.

but I felt it was left kinda ambiguous, where people could pull their own meaning from it.

edit: at post 29

g0ldie posted...

TLoU2 doesn't invalidate that interpretation of the ending of the first game, though; we know that Ellie has doubts but chooses to trust Joel.

and during the flashbacks, we see just that, but there's enough nagging in the back of her head that she feels that she has to find out for herself, and in the process, finds out that Joel didn't just lie to her, but also killed a lot of people in the process of saving her.

Kinda does as I stealthed past the fireflies and shot Abby's dad in the foot while he collapsed like a sack full of raw meat, though.

Slayer_22 posted...

Kinda does as I stealthed past the fireflies and shot Abby's dad in the foot while he collapsed like a sack full of raw meat, though.

That's not LoU2.

idk if that's the part of the ending that's in contention. only what happens in cutscenes, in-game dialogue, journals, and stuff like that are canon.

it's whether Ellie believes Joel or not that's left up to the player.

edit: at post 32

TLoU2 was great. Organic development of character arcs from the first game, some real ballsy plot points, and really smooth gameplay.

The only downside I can think of is the flashback segments being kinda intrusive to the pacing, but it's whatever.

The first game is still better, imo, but the second one is still really good. Gotta play it again one of these days.

SalazarCrane posted...

The end of the first game didn't seem ambiguous at all? Dude murdered a hospital full of people for nothing. Even Ellie didn't believe his explanation for leaving.

Kidnapping and attempting to murder his adopted daughter is not nothing.

He did what any parent worth a damn would have done.

Game was garbage that came and left the public consciousness incredibly quickly

Northlane posted...

Game was garbage that came and left the public consciousness incredibly quickly

If it did/ was we wouldn't still be talking about it. Hell it's got an HBO series coming lol

This thread reminded me of what I eventually realized was disturbing about the controversy: It genuinely seemed to bother TLOU2 supporters that a lot of other people did not revere the game like they did. After all, the game won its fair share of awards, critics loved it, and that shouldve been enough. But it wasnt. Everyone else was supposed to love it too and if they did not then their opinion was wrong.

Seeking validation like that comes off as insecure.

3

#3

I haven't played the game because I generally don't care about Western AAA games, but the reaction to this game has the same smell as the outrage to a lot of things, so I'm sure the game has some issues which are largely disproportionately magnified or discredited by an otherwise illegitimate outrage machine.

BakonBitz posted...

Well, it wasn't a cheerful game, but it had a slight hope of an optimistic future for the main characters. TLOU2 works to shit on everything they ever had and the "good moments" are just flashbacks to the past.

Optimistic? What were you smoking when you finished the game?

It was a 7/10 movie game with amazing graphics.

Goddamn. Did not expect so many replies when I made this. Though some of them are not surprising.

YugiNoob posted...

Sounds like you're just triggered that people are criticizing a game you like

This, and the following quotes of it, are my favorite though. I'm soooo triggered.

i didn't even bother to finish the first game

i'm still entirely sure why i would bother to play the second one

Lorenzo_2003 posted...

This thread reminded me of what I eventually realized was disturbing about the controversy: It genuinely seemed to bother TLOU2 supporters that a lot of other people did not revere the game like they did. After all, the game won its fair share of awards, critics loved it, and that shouldve been enough. But it wasnt. Everyone else was supposed to love it too and if they did not then their opinion was wrong.

Seeking validation like that comes off as insecure.

personally, I think it's fine if people don't like the game, if they hate it, think it's absolute garbage, and so on.

it's one of my favorite games, but even the most revered games, movies, books, etc. have people who absolutely despise them, even ones that aren't as controversial as TLoU2 (like, I hate Goodfellas ).

however, if I feel someone's misrepresenting something, I'll usually respond to that.

fan357 posted...

Optimistic? What were you smoking when you finished the game?

Yeah there were a ton of people who just completely missed the point.

I just beat it the other day and it was very good. The weakest part was the story, and Im not sure if its just a weak story or just an unlikable one.

The character development was just weird. The only one that was good was Dina. Ellie went from the human element to a sociopath like Joel. The game has a weird way of having her not like death and killing and then going out their way to make you kill everyone. Honestly, I felt Joel was the one we got the most depth out of. The writing of new characters just to be executed seemed like forced emotion that didnt hit either. The NPCs were really cool with how the dialog made them feel like characters. The Santa Barbra segment felt like a weird add-on DLC more so than main game.

The gameplay was great, enemies were great, designs were great, some of the most attention to detail I've seen in anything, sound was pretty good, music was great

I can see where people will think its woke you have a transexual( I guess? nonbinary? idk), lesbian couple, interracial baby, and she-hulk in the same room during apocolypse. But, I've seen more diverse stuff in real life, so whatever.