Current Events > This is honestly the most sensible nutritional advice I've heard

(+) Yeah! (+)

Mike Israetel, if you know who that is:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TYeZVfPxwKM

TL;DW

1. science is the sum of the evidence and deals in likelihoods. So what is likely the healthy eating options more of the time, rather than definitively the absolute healthy options. You can find any single study that says milk or butter or sugar is evil or incredible and that's interesting, but it still needs to be held in the context of the rest of the evidence.
2. Important nutritional factors in order of importance and diminishing in returns are: Calories >>>>> Good sources of food >>> Macros >> Meal Timing > Supplements and hydration
3. Calories and maintaining a healthy weight is absolutely the most important part of any diet, as long as you account for the variance in what a healthy weight is
4. Eating good sources of food that are high in quality nutrients is next most important. So lean proteins, healthy fats, plenty of legumes and fruits and whole grains.
5. Macros are important but in reality you can get sufficient protein/fat/carbs in the first 30% of your calories, leaving you plenty of wiggle room for anything. It's been shown time and time again that high protein, high fat, vegan - all of these diet models work and produce very healthy people provided the diet has sufficient calories and is not extreme in how it excludes important food groups (e.g. fruitarians)
6. The rest of the stuff just isn't very important. Meal timing works differently for different people (eg. intermittent fasting vs 8 meals a day) so there are no hard and fast rules, the vast majority of supplements are ineffectual and unnecessary (a multivitamin and some fish oil might be helpful or some). Hydration is self-regulating.

TL:DR - eat a balanced diet of healthy foods and watch your weight and you're good

Yeah man, I hate how many misinformed people think they need to avoid carbs if not cut them out altogether. Carbs are the largest part of my diet (42%), and "fit" would probably be a very good way to describe my physique. I'm not "jacked," but you can tell I live a healthy lifestyle.

So pizza, doritos and pepsi?

got it

But then orthorexics cant micromanage their exact ratios of raw meat to ancient grains!

I've been doing NSNG

It works stupid well for me. I dont count calories and I still eat a lot of stuff I love

Minimize added sugars as much as you can. Eat real food with fiber. Exercise regularly. voila.

Metal_Bug posted...

Yeah man, I hate how many misinformed people think they need to avoid carbs if not cut them out altogether. Carbs are the largest part of my diet (42%), and "fit" would probably be a very good way to describe my physique. I'm not "jacked," but you can tell I live a healthy lifestyle.

Like I'm all for simple maxims but not if you ignore the fundamentals in pursuit of it. You see this in the fitness world a lot. An excessive preoccupation about the most optimal protein powder from people who don't squat.

Well duh

It's sad that people think that drastic diet changes like cutting out carbs is a magic bullet to their bad eating habbits.

I often get asked what diet I'm on.

I just try not to overindulge in food that I know is crap and do plenty of exercise. I don't follow any particular rules.

But then you get people I work with who are surprised that I eat carbs or whatever. Why wouldn't I?

people have been conditioned to think carbs are bad because most processed food has carbs in it. It's the processed food that's bad

But you can have processed food as well, as long as you're not eating too many calories. The problem is most people on western diets overindulge on processed food

Glob posted...

I often get asked what diet I'm on.

I just try not to overindulge in food that I know is crap and do plenty of exercise. I don't follow any particular rules.

But then you get people I work with who are surprised that I eat carbs or whatever. Why wouldn't I?

I don't wish to be mean towards anyone but I have to bite my tongue when someone makes a quip about my "metabolism", e.g. "you're lucky you have hollow legs". The same people tend to have all sorts of maxims for health, usually around sugar or carbs, but ignore the general principles around how much they eat or exercise. The same people also tend to be in pretty terrible shape.

My absolute favourite though is the really out of shape guy at my work who wanted to argue about the malnutrition of vegan diets while he was chowing down a literal twinkie. I mean enjoy the twinkie all you like but since when did you start caring about your nutrition, Steve. I've literally never seen anything green at your desk.

The biggest thing about sugar and carbs is the insulin response.

Generally more sugar and carbs leads to a higher insulin response that leads to craving that leads to more eating that leads to more insulin that leads to overeating

Different bodies different results but that's a general response

Unsugarized_Foo posted...

The biggest thing about sugar and carbs is the insulin response.

Generally more sugar and carbs leads to a higher insulin response that leads to craving that leads to more eating that leads to more insulin that leads to overeating

Different bodies different results but that's a general response

Yes and that's a fine point, but if you reflexively cut out all sugars and nearly all carbs without understanding why, you might ignore the overall purpose of it (to not overeat) and get a bit jaded with dieting in general.

So if you continue to overeat despite cutting out all sugar, and you continue to put on weight, no wonder people like that give up on diets. "It doesn't work and I'm not having any fun".

pinky0926 posted...

Yes and that's a fine point, but if you reflexively cut out all sugars and nearly all carbs without understanding why, you might ignore the overall purpose of it (to not overeat) and get a bit jaded with dieting in general.

So if you continue to overeat despite cutting out all sugar, and you continue to put on weight, no wonder people like that give up on diets. "It doesn't work and I'm not having any fun".

Eh, todays humans eat way too much sugar and carbs, cutting some of it will be a good thing. Drink something sweet every other day or so. Have less pasta or rice or bread, add a bit more veggies and maybe meat. Maybe you dont need that dessert.

pinky0926 posted...

Yes and that's a fine point, but if you reflexively cut out all sugars and nearly all carbs without understanding why, you might ignore the overall purpose of it (to not overeat) and get a bit jaded with dieting in general.

So if you continue to overeat despite cutting out all sugar, and you continue to put on weight, no wonder people like that give up on diets. "It doesn't work and I'm not having any fun".

That's what I like about NSNG, as long as you follow the simple rules of no sugar and no grains, you don't even need calorie count. The first or second sentence says its specifically to just stop over eating. They even emphasize that you cant outrun your mouth, so dont try to sneak food if you plan to workout more. Its incredibly hard to run off a pack off M&Ms

Then you can get deeper and try ketosis and stuff, but that's for the hardcore types

LightHawKnight posted...

Eh, todays humans eat way too much sugar and carbs, cutting some of it will be a good thing. Drink something sweet every other day or so. Have less pasta or rice or bread, add a bit more veggies and maybe meat. Maybe you dont need that dessert.

It might be a good thing, but if you take it to mean you shouldn't eat good carbs or fruits and it doesn't solve the overall problem of overeating, it's not going to fix anything.

That's my problem with the maxims. There's plenty of people in absolutely terrible shape who have made themselves completely miserable by cutting out sugar and still not resolving the underlying issue.

(that said I take your point: eat less of that, eat more of this. That's a good way to be.)

Unsugarized_Foo posted...

That's what I like about NSNG, as long as you follow the simple rules of no sugar and no grains, you don't even need calorie count. The first or second sentence says its specifically to just stop over eating. They even emphasize that you cant outrun your mouth, so dont try to sneak food if you plan to workout more. Its incredibly hard to run off a pack off M&Ms

Then you can get deeper and try ketosis and stuff, but that's for the hardcore types

If it works for you that's cool. I like chocolate and pizza and beer too much to follow a diet like that. So for that reason I prefer to just weigh myself often, train 5 times a week and keep my body fat low.

Mike Israetel is basically Gorilla Grodd dude is smart as hell and also a boulder of a man

pinky0926 posted...

It might be a good thing, but if you take it to mean you shouldn't eat good carbs or fruits and it doesn't solve the overall problem of overeating, it's not going to fix anything.

That's my problem with the maxims. There's plenty of people in absolutely terrible shape who have made themselves completely miserable by cutting out sugar and still not resolving the underlying issue.

(that said I take your point: eat less of that, eat more of this. That's a good way to be.)

I mean if you think cut means remove it all I guess so, but when I hear cut carbs and sugar, I think eat less of it. The crazies who think they should remove everything good from their diet and have a insanely low calorie intake amount right away will never lose weight.

No grains is something I absolutely couldn't do. Some sort of bread with peanut butter on it is like my default meal. >_>

Bread isn't bad for you anyway, assuming you tolerate gluten like the vast majority of people

The problem is "breading" everything
Especially since the breading is also fried to top it off...

theAteam posted...

Mike Israetel is basically Gorilla Grodd dude is smart as hell and also a boulder of a man

Gorilla Grodd is an excellent compliment

pinky0926 posted...

I don't wish to be mean towards anyone but I have to bite my tongue when someone makes a quip about my "metabolism", e.g. "you're lucky you have hollow legs". The same people tend to have all sorts of maxims for health, usually around sugar or carbs, but ignore the general principles around how much they eat or exercise. The same people also tend to be in pretty terrible shape.

My absolute favourite though is the really out of shape guy at my work who wanted to argue about the malnutrition of vegan diets while he was chowing down a literal twinkie. I mean enjoy the twinkie all you like but since when did you start caring about your nutrition, Steve. I've literally never seen anything green at your desk.

Yeah, I've had comments made in the past about how I'm so lucky to have been an athlete when I was younger. Luck had nothing to do with it. Most of the people saying that shit have never got up early to go training.

Metal_Bug posted...

Yeah man, I hate how many misinformed people think they need to avoid carbs if not cut them out altogether. Carbs are the largest part of my diet (42%), and "fit" would probably be a very good way to describe my physique. I'm not "jacked," but you can tell I live a healthy lifestyle.

Fat is 30% of my diet. So 72% of my diet is carbs and fat. And I'm a fit person.

Amen. 90% of the time someone whines about carbs to me, it's from a person who doesn't exercise lol. So tired of the carb hate train.

LostForest posted...

Amen. 90% of the time someone whines about carbs to me, it's from a person who doesn't exercise lol. So tired of the carb hate train.

It has to be because exercising with low carbs is hell

uwnim posted...

No grains is something I absolutely couldn't do. Some sort of bread with peanut butter on it is like my default meal. >_>

If I really wanted to clean up my lifestyle, bread isn't what I would cut out. Drinking, occasionally smoking and being so damn stressed all the time would be the first things to go.

Any particular type of food, as with anything in life, should be enjoyed in moderation.

Combine that with even the slightest bit of exercise, even something as little as a daily half-hour walk around your neighborhood, would keep a majority of people living a relatively healthy lifestyle.

pinky0926 posted...

TL:DR - eat a balanced diet of healthy foods and watch your weight and you're good

NO WAY get out with this phony baloney lib science /s

The amount of bro science in fitness nutrition was completely out of control like 5-10 years back. Idk if it's toned down or I've just stopped watching the content.

Jabodie posted...

The amount of bro science in fitness nutrition was completely out of control like 5-10 years back. Idk if it's toned down or I've just stopped watching the content.

People on /fit/ follow the "snake diet" now of eating one meal a week

Going low carb is helping me lose weight and lower my blood sugar. I don't intend to eat like this forever, and I'm glad my nephew is being raised in such a fashion that he won't have to eat like this ever.

bigblu89 posted...

Any particular type of food, as with anything in life, should be enjoyed in moderation.

Combine that with even the slightest bit of exercise, even something as little as a daily half-hour walk around your neighborhood, would keep a majority of people living a relatively healthy lifestyle.

Most people don't have enough time for 30 minutes of exercise though. They must have 6 and a half hours of Netflix a day instead of 6 to function

Is calories really number 1 most important?

Say you have 2 people. Both need 2000 calories for maintenance.

Person 1 drank 2000 calories of coke and called it a day.
Person 2 ate steamed chicken breast, vegetables, fruits, and sweat potatoes, but they ate 2100 calories.

I also think it's much easier to be satiated if you eat good food as opposed to junk. I see so many people on diets starving themselves counting calories, but then the calories they do consume is junk that won't fill them up. Their lunch will be like a Mountain Dew and chips.

Squall28 posted...

Is calories really number 1 most important?

Say you have 2 people. Both need 2000 calories for maintenance.

Person 1 drank 2000 calories of coke and called it a day.
Person 2 ate steamed chicken breast, vegetables, fruits, and sweat potatoes, but they ate 2100 calories.

I also think it's much easier to be satiated if you eat good food as opposed to junk. I see so many people on diets starving themselves counting calories, but then the calories they do consume is junk that won't fill them up. Their lunch will be like a Mountain Dew and chips.

Calories are most important but that doesn't mean the other things are not important. For example If you drank 2000 calories of coke only you'd not meet your macro minimums, nor would most of your food come from good sources.

As you pointed out, you'd be extremely unsatisfied and therefore very likely to overeat in calories.

The same guy has diet plan recommendations that don't start with calorie counting, but instead with eating healthier foods, as this tends to result in a healthier amount of calories for most people.

You can't look at the factors in a vacuum, is the point.

I just don't like how he ranked calories first. I'm on the same page on everything being important, but don't think calories should get the special distinction of being number 1 because there are so many who calorie counting with junk food and starving themselves. If you eliminate the crap from your diet, the calories will regulate itself. Replacing sugary drinks with water for example easily cuts down on like 300+ calories a day and it won't make you hungry.

Squall28 posted...

I just don't like how he ranked calories first. I'm on the same page on everything being important, but don't think calories should get the special distinction of being number 1 because there are so many who calorie counting with junk food and starving themselves. If you eliminate the crap from your diet, the calories will regulate itself. Replacing sugary drinks with water for example easily cuts down on like 300+ calories a day and it won't make you hungry.

Read the post right before yours. Calorie intake IS the most important, but counting calories on day 1 isn't as ideal as making sure you're eating the right kinds of food.

Squall28 posted...

I just don't like how he ranked calories first. I'm on the same page on everything being important, but don't think calories should get the special distinction of being number 1 because there are so many who calorie counting with junk food and starving themselves. If you eliminate the crap from your diet, the calories will regulate itself. Replacing sugary drinks with water for example easily cuts down on like 300+ calories a day and it won't make you hungry.

On the other hand if you overeat (or undereat) in all healthy foods you'll still have obesity issues which is the biggest health risk.

That's the point about calories - there is no healthy obesity.

bigblu89 posted...

Read the post right before yours. Calorie intake IS the most important, but counting calories on day 1 isn't as ideal as making sure you're eating the right kinds of food.

Again. I have no problems with saying it's all important. I just don't think it's helpful to give calories a special distinction because too many people already focus too much on that over food choices.

If his recommendation starts with food choices over calories, that should be the take away. Calories shouldn't be given special distinction that it's the most important.

Kakapo posted...

But then orthorexics cant micromanage their exact ratios of raw meat to ancient grains!

I'd never heard the term "orthorexic" before, but after looking it up, this seems to almost exactly describe one of my sisters whose bizarre/extreme eating habits I could never quite figure out. I'm going to have to mention it to other family members.

The only thing I'm put off by is him making a joke of food companies being out to get people, because they absolutely are. Not wanting to risk the pitfalls of "moralizing" food is one thing but offhandedly dismissing the massive problem junk food poses is just reckless, especially if he's advocating that people can have some if they're keeping their diet 75% healthy. A lot of people are going to heed that advice and be left holding empty family sized bags after a binge and wonder where they went wrong as they fall off the wagon yet again trying to moderate foods that are intentionally designed to be as addictive as possible.

And "vegan" isn't a macro ratio or any specific kind of diet the way he uses it. You can be high fat or high protein vegan. As many vegan doctors say, "Vegan only tells you what a person doesn't eat."

The rest is good. I liked that he touched on hydration because people got too carried away with that. A lady I used to work with had to be stretchered out of the office because she hit her had after fainting. She was the "one gallon jug with sports top and handle" lady and drank herself into hyponatremia.

pinky0926 posted...

I don't wish to be mean towards anyone but I have to bite my tongue when someone makes a quip about my "metabolism", e.g. "you're lucky you have hollow legs". The same people tend to have all sorts of maxims for health, usually around sugar or carbs, but ignore the general principles around how much they eat or exercise. The same people also tend to be in pretty terrible shape.

My absolute favourite though is the really out of shape guy at my work who wanted to argue about the malnutrition of vegan diets while he was chowing down a literal twinkie. I mean enjoy the twinkie all you like but since when did you start caring about your nutrition, Steve. I've literally never seen anything green at your desk.

Fuck Steve tbh

if someone is predisposed to genetically high cholesterol, I don't think a high fat diet is ideally the best (particularly on saturated fat)