Current Events > Caffeine is terrible for energy

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ElkLordOldSpice
01/26/22 8:18:56 PM
#1:


It's a drug. It's a neurotoxin. A natural pesticide. Plants engineered it to keep bugs away. It does not give you energy, it gives you anxiety in a different manner than adrenaline does.

Meanwhile people are afraid of sugar, despite every cell in our body depending on glucose for real energy. Most food we eat gets broken down to be glucose.
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PlsGodDontBanMe
01/26/22 8:40:16 PM
#2:


shut up nerd

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MICHALECOLE
01/26/22 8:41:04 PM
#3:


Hey, nerd, shut up
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SSJKirby
01/26/22 8:41:55 PM
#4:


I stopped drinking coke a month ago, I feel so much better

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Medussa
01/26/22 8:42:18 PM
#5:


*sips cherrypepsi*

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MixedRaceBaby
01/26/22 8:42:36 PM
#6:


wake up sheeple!!

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#7
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armandro
01/26/22 8:43:40 PM
#8:


whats so bad about anxiety?

it makes you look at life and you ask yourself questions.

thats like saying spicy food is terrible because plants made it as a defense against predators

but that shit is good

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ElkLordOldSpice
01/26/22 8:49:17 PM
#9:


armandro posted...
whats so bad about anxiety?

it makes you look at life and you ask yourself questions.

thats like saying spicy food is terrible because plants made it as a defense against predators

but that shit is good
Capsaicin is not a drug though
Try decaf. Quit the drug, eat more sugar, but no fat

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QueenCarly
01/26/22 8:50:50 PM
#10:


ElkLordOldSpice posted...
eat more sugar,

No, do less of this

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COVxy
01/26/22 8:51:09 PM
#11:


Words have meaning, you know? You can't just say shit.

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armandro
01/26/22 8:51:14 PM
#12:


oh i dont dont coffee cause it gives me physical shakes

that shit sucks

impending doom i can deal with

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#13
Post #13 was unavailable or deleted.
Dragon239
01/26/22 8:51:56 PM
#14:


ElkLordOldSpice posted...
but no fat
and why not

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Jiek_Fafn
01/26/22 8:52:15 PM
#15:


It's never perked me up but it definitely helps me focus. I suspect I have mild adhd symptoms that I essentially just self medicate with it.

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JuanCarlos1
01/26/22 9:09:41 PM
#16:


TC is right. Coffee doesnt give you energy...IT STEALS IT from your future self by blocking adenosine receptors thus delaying the sleepy, tired effect. Thats why you can crash after its effect is done.

And I had to stop drinking coffee due to anxiety that developed into panic attacks.

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ToPoPO
01/26/22 9:11:19 PM
#17:


ElkLordOldSpice posted...
Capsaicin is not a drug though
Try decaf. Quit the drug, eat more sugar, but no fat

Capsaicin is a drug, it's an ointment used for pain
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Freddie_Mercury
01/26/22 9:15:23 PM
#18:


PlsGodDontBanMe posted...
shut up nerd


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ReaperCloud
01/26/22 9:16:41 PM
#19:


I've been drinking caffeinated soda for over 30 years of my life. Whenever I would try and quit cold turkey I would get horrible migraine headaches for several days.

So two years ago I stopped drinking soda, but used those flavored squeezy bottles that you add to water for my caffeine.

Then I decided to stop this stupid addiction that my body had to caffeine. I slowly weaned myself from the caffeine by adding less and less of the caffeinated Kool aid mix into my water. In one months time I was free of the addiction, and no headaches.

It's been almost 4 months and I've been caffeine free. It does wonders for the body.

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Billyionaire
01/26/22 9:21:51 PM
#20:


I'm a coffee fiend but haven't touched a soft drink in like 15 years.

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bigtiggie23
01/26/22 9:22:27 PM
#21:


I dropped caffeine completely 15 years ago and haven't had any since. I still drink non-caffeine sodas like root beer and fruit flavored sodas though.

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R1masher
01/26/22 9:25:39 PM
#22:


I just use it to shit nothing like shitting into a nice hot cup of coffee

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ElkLordOldSpice
01/26/22 11:21:23 PM
#23:


QueenCarly posted...
No, do less of this
QueenCarly posted...
Read up what digestion is. It's breaking down carbs and proteins down to ultimately be glucose. Your brains fuel is sugar.
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ElkLordOldSpice
01/26/22 11:23:08 PM
#24:


Dragon239 posted...
and why not

Fat (oil, grease, lipids) is junk long term energy but is why western nations are truly obese. Not sugar (or carbs) The fat you eat is the fat you wear.

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EnvoyOfTheLight
01/26/22 11:24:58 PM
#25:


ElkLordOldSpice posted...
Read up what digestion is. It's breaking down carbs and proteins down to ultimately be glucose. Your brains fuel is sugar.

This is in disregard of the digestion process being what makes that end-result glucose safe and good, instead of just spiking your blood sugar, destabilizing your hormones, and, if you keep up, getting diabetes.

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EnvoyOfTheLight
01/26/22 11:25:44 PM
#26:


ElkLordOldSpice posted...
Fat (oil, grease, lipids) is junk long term energy but is why western nations are truly obese. Not sugar (or carbs) The fat you eat is the fat you wear.

Why are you being as wrong as you can? Scotty?

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#27
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NashtheLion
01/26/22 11:29:50 PM
#28:


I dont drink it for energy.
Thats what cocaine is for.
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ElkLordOldSpice
01/26/22 11:30:09 PM
#29:


EnvoyOfTheLight posted...
This is in disregard of the digestion process being what makes that end-result glucose safe and good, instead of just spiking your blood sugar, destabilizing your hormones, and, if you keep up, getting diabetes.

Sedentary lifestyle with too much fat( in ones DIET and on one's BODY) is how you get type 2 diabetes, which can be reversible, through means of minimizing FAT and using sugar to show your body that it need to produce more insulin.
Sugar does great things for other hormones, especially Cortisol. Feeling stressed out? Sugar. Calms you down, sweetens your mood, sweetens your life. Then you get some kissy smoochy from your sugarthang your sugarpie. These sweet words for significant other are not by coincidence

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xGhostchantx
01/26/22 11:32:00 PM
#30:


ElkLordOldSpice posted...
It does not give you energy

incorrectomundo.

it blocks adenosine from being released and increases the release of adrenaline.

the adrenaline can give you anxiety, and the lack of adenosine can exacerbate said anxiety.
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Ratchetrockon
01/26/22 11:33:28 PM
#31:


yeah i agree i just like taste of energy drinks tho. i put a lot of sugar in my coffee too

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ElkLordOldSpice
01/26/22 11:42:38 PM
#32:


xGhostchantx posted...
incorrectomundo.

it blocks adenosine from being released and increases the release of adrenaline.

the adrenaline can give you anxiety, and the lack of adenosine can exacerbate said anxiety.
Nice one! Now your next homework is learning what caloric energy is. I mentioned Adrenaline in my OP
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rivers
01/27/22 10:37:54 AM
#33:


I'm approaching two months on a diet high in carbohydrate (>80%) with plenty of added sugar. I've done bloodwork twice during this experiment. My blood glucose has been in the low 80s (mg/dl), HbA1c 5%, and triglycerides declining. Also, my TSH has gone from an average of well over 3 down to 1.1, by far the lowest I've ever recorded in over 10 years of testing, rendering my cold hands and feet a thing of the past after 20 years of dealing with them. Even walking outside in sub-zero (F) weather, I swear it feels about 30 degrees warmer to me.
So, I feel pretty good about sugar.
Caffeine is interesting to me. I think that for most people, in moderate amounts, it can be a good thing, and this in part because of its slightly toxic properties. Hormesis.
Unfortunately, I have definitely noticed that I do better without it, including getting more complete sleep starting two or three nights nights after giving it up. I used to consume it very liberally, in part motivated by the fact that I have a fast caffeine metabolism genotype (high CYP1A2 activity). But it turns out that the primary metabolite of caffeine, paraxanthine, which has similar effects to caffeine, itself is metabolized mostly (about two thirds) by a different enzyme, 2A6, which I do not produce at all because of a rare genetic variant. So, my 1A2 has to do the double duty of breaking down caffeine and its byproduct, which may extend the quarter life of systemic effects of caffeine consumption to days.
My 2A6 genotype with effectively zero activity of the enzyme is rare, but there is a minority with reduced activity who probably also shouldn't be taking caffeine very often. I suspect low 2A6 activity is disproportionately high in people who become very enthusiastic about caffeine avoidance.

Variants of CYP2A6 are usually explored for their relationship to smoking. People with low activity of the enzyme are less likely to smoke cigarettes and find it easier to quit because they convert less nicotine to cotinine, its psychoactive byproduct. In my case, I convert none. When I found that out it really made sense: I had experimented with Swedish tobacco, nicotine gum, and vaping in the past, and never felt anything from it.

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Giant_Aspirin
01/27/22 10:39:47 AM
#34:


ElkLordOldSpice posted...
it gives you anxiety in a different manner than adrenaline does.

i find taking L-Theanine really helps "take the edge off" of caffeine. i take 400mg every morning and i never feel jittery or anxious from my 16 oz of magic bean juice

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Old NoiseTank
01/27/22 10:43:18 AM
#35:


PlsGodDontBanMe posted...
shut up nerd


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CervusCanadensi
01/27/22 1:44:04 PM
#36:


rivers posted...
I'm approaching two months on a diet high in carbohydrate (>80%) with plenty of added sugar. I've done bloodwork twice during this experiment. My blood glucose has been in the low 80s (mg/dl), HbA1c 5%, and triglycerides declining. Also, my TSH has gone from an average of well over 3 down to 1.1, by far the lowest I've ever recorded in over 10 years of testing, rendering my cold hands and feet a thing of the past after 20 years of dealing with them. Even walking outside in sub-zero (F) weather, I swear it feels about 30 degrees warmer to me.
So, I feel pretty good about sugar.
Caffeine is interesting to me. I think that for most people, in moderate amounts, it can be a good thing, and this in part because of its slightly toxic properties. Hormesis.
Unfortunately, I have definitely noticed that I do better without it, including getting more complete sleep starting two or three nights nights after giving it up. I used to consume it very liberally, in part motivated by the fact that I have a fast caffeine metabolism genotype (high CYP1A2 activity). But it turns out that the primary metabolite of caffeine, paraxanthine, which has similar effects to caffeine, itself is metabolized mostly (about two thirds) by a different enzyme, 2A6, which I do not produce at all because of a rare genetic variant. So, my 1A2 has to do the double duty of breaking down caffeine and its byproduct, which may extend the quarter life of systemic effects of caffeine consumption to days.
My 2A6 genotype with effectively zero activity of the enzyme is rare, but there is a minority with reduced activity who probably also shouldn't be taking caffeine very often. I suspect low 2A6 activity is disproportionately high in people who become very enthusiastic about caffeine avoidance.

Variants of CYP2A6 are usually explored for their relationship to smoking. People with low activity of the enzyme are less likely to smoke cigarettes and find it easier to quit because they convert less nicotine to cotinine, its psychoactive byproduct. In my case, I convert none. When I found that out it really made sense: I had experimented with Swedish tobacco, nicotine gum, and vaping in the past, and never felt anything from it.

rivers posted...
I'm approaching two months on a diet high in carbohydrate (>80%) with plenty of added sugar. I've done bloodwork twice during this experiment. My blood glucose has been in the low 80s (mg/dl), HbA1c 5%, and triglycerides declining. Also, my TSH has gone from an average of well over 3 down to 1.1, by far the lowest I've ever recorded in over 10 years of testing, rendering my cold hands and feet a thing of the past after 20 years of dealing with them. Even walking outside in sub-zero (F) weather, I swear it feels about 30 degrees warmer to me.
So, I feel pretty good about sugar.
Caffeine is interesting to me. I think that for most people, in moderate amounts, it can be a good thing, and this in part because of its slightly toxic properties. Hormesis.
Unfortunately, I have definitely noticed that I do better without it, including getting more complete sleep starting two or three nights nights after giving it up. I used to consume it very liberally, in part motivated by the fact that I have a fast caffeine metabolism genotype (high CYP1A2 activity). But it turns out that the primary metabolite of caffeine, paraxanthine, which has similar effects to caffeine, itself is metabolized mostly (about two thirds) by a different enzyme, 2A6, which I do not produce at all because of a rare genetic variant. So, my 1A2 has to do the double duty of breaking down caffeine and its byproduct, which may extend the quarter life of systemic effects of caffeine consumption to days.
My 2A6 genotype with effectively zero activity of the enzyme is rare, but there is a minority with reduced activity who probably also shouldn't be taking caffeine very often. I suspect low 2A6 activity is disproportionately high in people who become very enthusiastic about caffeine avoidance.

Variants of CYP2A6 are usually explored for their relationship to smoking. People with low activity of the enzyme are less likely to smoke cigarettes and find it easier to quit because they convert less nicotine to cotinine, its psychoactive byproduct. In my case, I convert none. When I found that out it really made sense: I had experimented with Swedish tobacco, nicotine gum, and vaping in the past, and never felt anything from it.

rivers posted...
I'm approaching two months on a diet high in carbohydrate (>80%) with plenty of added sugar. I've done bloodwork twice during this experiment. My blood glucose has been in the low 80s (mg/dl), HbA1c 5%, and triglycerides declining. Also, my TSH has gone from an average of well over 3 down to 1.1, by far the lowest I've ever recorded in over 10 years of testing, rendering my cold hands and feet a thing of the past after 20 years of dealing with them. Even walking outside in sub-zero (F) weather, I swear it feels about 30 degrees warmer to me.
So, I feel pretty good about sugar.
Caffeine is interesting to me. I think that for most people, in moderate amounts, it can be a good thing, and this in part because of its slightly toxic properties. Hormesis.
Unfortunately, I have definitely noticed that I do better without it, including getting more complete sleep starting two or three nights nights after giving it up. I used to consume it very liberally, in part motivated by the fact that I have a fast caffeine metabolism genotype (high CYP1A2 activity). But it turns out that the primary metabolite of caffeine, paraxanthine, which has similar effects to caffeine, itself is metabolized mostly (about two thirds) by a different enzyme, 2A6, which I do not produce at all because of a rare genetic variant. So, my 1A2 has to do the double duty of breaking down caffeine and its byproduct, which may extend the quarter life of systemic effects of caffeine consumption to days.
My 2A6 genotype with effectively zero activity of the enzyme is rare, but there is a minority with reduced activity who probably also shouldn't be taking caffeine very often. I suspect low 2A6 activity is disproportionately high in people who become very enthusiastic about caffeine avoidance.

Variants of CYP2A6 are usually explored for their relationship to smoking. People with low activity of the enzyme are less likely to smoke cigarettes and find it easier to quit because they convert less nicotine to cotinine, its psychoactive byproduct. In my case, I convert none. When I found that out it really made sense: I had experimented with Swedish tobacco, nicotine gum, and vaping in the past, and never felt anything from it.


Awesome man. What made you make the change? How are HDL and LDL levels? I get routine blood work done too

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PoopPotato
01/27/22 1:51:00 PM
#37:


Pretty much only drink coffee on the weekends. It's a comfort thing I guess.
Usually sip on tea while I'm at work. Much more mellow caffeine buzz than coffee. Keeps me alert without the anxiety

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kingdrake2
01/27/22 1:56:19 PM
#38:


armandro posted...
whats so bad about anxiety?


it's a double-edged sword deal.

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Questionmarktarius
01/27/22 1:57:10 PM
#39:


ElkLordOldSpice posted...
Capsaicin is not a drug though
then, why is it addictive?
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CervusCanadensi
01/27/22 6:37:06 PM
#40:


Questionmarktarius posted...
then, why is it addictive?

Everything addictive is not a drug
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Dakimakura
01/27/22 6:37:29 PM
#41:


i like drugs

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CervusCanadensi
01/28/22 2:27:25 AM
#42:


Dakimakura posted...
i like drugs
Drugger
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Trumble
01/28/22 4:28:30 AM
#43:


Shut up Meg.

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masticatingman
01/28/22 4:45:09 AM
#44:


Disagree for pure caffeine. Sodas and energy drinks both have boatloads of other crap as well.

Although caffeines best purpose is definitely as a pair up with aspirin. It gives the aspirin superpower qualities in getting rid of headaches.

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Trumble
01/28/22 4:46:55 AM
#45:


masticatingman posted...
Although caffeines best purpose is definitely as a pair up with aspirin. It gives the aspirin superpower qualities in getting rid of headaches.
Works with ibuprofen too. (EDIT: As in caffiene + ibuprofen, I mean.)

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Turtlebread
01/28/22 4:54:25 AM
#46:


Caffeine is lit fam

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Crazyman93
01/28/22 5:03:24 AM
#47:


[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

Today? CE does that every day it feels like. And people keep biting. If CE was a fishing spot it would have been fished to the point of emptiness years ago. Like, imagine a fisherman tossing in the most anemic worm and then somehow pulling up 10 fish and you've got a visual metaphor for CE.

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rivers
01/28/22 1:16:32 PM
#48:


CervusCanadensi posted...
Awesome man. What made you make the change? How are HDL and LDL levels? I get routine blood work done too
cool, tracking something in particular, perhaps in a similar kind of experiment, or just trying to stay ahead of the curve?

Total cholesterol right now is 189, HDL 50 (up from 36), LDL 99. That's a pretty typical TC for me; however, although my HDL is up in the short term, it used to average around 90, and LDL more like 70. Some context here is that I'm about 20 pounds heavier than I was for most of those blood tests, presumably that's why my trigs (now declining) were elevated coming into this, so I expect the recent reversal to continue as I shed fat. In fact, until the last week or so, since starting this diet, I've been averaging around 3000 kcals/day, and I haven't been very active. I wanted to prevent weight loss in the beginning in order to prevent that from influencing initial results. I didn't gain any weight despite eating too much. That's not to say everyone would have the same experience.

As far why I started. Short version: felt like crap for a long time even though I was relatively young and lean. Discovered I had sleep apnea a year ago, couldn't tolerate CPAP, got surgery to expand nasal aperture, finally succeeded with CPAP, and started to have more energy and get by without caffeine, but some issues lingered. Signs pointed to biological stress. Went on high-carb, high-sugar diet to reduce stress, with the island of Kitava, Walter Kempner, and Ray Peat as key influences.
Way too long version: well, a little fat loss is a goal, although I'm actually pretty lean and could have done just by eating less on any diet. Basically, I've been interested in health and fitness for a long time, and until recently only had short-term blips of success. I had to limit exercise to once or twice a week or I'd start to feel like crap and not recover between sessions. I had high blood pressure at the doctor's office and at work, but not at home--in fact, at home it was common for me to have low blood pressure, but only while lying down. (This is normal now: 120/75 across positions and heart rate doesn't elevate when standing.) On blood tests, everything usually looked good, although my TSH was usually close to 4--not high enough to be considered hypothyroidism by the general criteria, but it always stood out to me, especially because I had low energy (too low "for me" compared to how I was right before this started in my teens) and cold hands. The median is around 1.5. The other thing that stood out is DHEA-S, which was above the normal range every single time I measured it, regardless of diet. DHEA-S is a marker of biological stress; relevant to the OP, it's an adrenal hormone. This month, for the first time, it was in the middle of the normal range.
I'd known for a while that carbohydrate, especially in the form of sucrose, is anti-stress (Ray Peat), and that high carb diets can be healthy long term (e.g. see the Kitavans, or for an extreme example the work of Walter Kempner, who pioneered the Rice Diet). I benefited from adding carbs, but I never got my carbohydrate:fat ratio much above the typical diet, and I never felt comfortable adding sugar, despite accepting Ray Peat's points. It's just so antithetical to what I've been taught.
Addressing sleep apnea over the last year was huge, but not enough. I finally started getting stronger, but plateaued quickly. I'm still really thin despite the fat I have to lose (visceral), so it's not as if I've exhausted newbie gains. Having tried everything else was what it took to push me to this anti-stress diet, and so far I'm loving it. Starting to gain again and I can work out more often, presumably because I'm no longer constantly catabolic and can actually store glycogen in my muscles.
Looking back, my issues started as a teenager, right around the time my subjective sleep quality started to suffer. My doctor thinks my sleep apnea kicked off all the way back then due to structural changes associated with puberty, and I think it's the long-term damage of undetected sleep apnea that has necessitated an unusual diet.

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Popcorn2000
01/28/22 1:17:14 PM
#49:


you know what isnt? popcorn
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yunalenne10
01/28/22 1:25:19 PM
#50:


I'm keeping my cold brew black coffee. Thank you very much.

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