Current Events > Tennessee school board votes to ban Holocaust graphic novel "Maus"

(+) Yeah! (+)

I am begging you to stop sticking up for the people who are banning books about the Holocaust

USA needs to empower the US Department of Education and centralize curriculums, but then ppl will complain it's "authoritarian"

Criminalt posted...

Again, the statement: "There is only one reason to ever try to censor anything related to the holocaust or the nazis." Clearly, "anything" is a pretty broad term that doesn't limit itself to just Maus. OK?

There are parents who'd have perfectly legitimate reasons why they wouldn't want their child exposed to horrific images from the Holocaust at a young age. That wouldn't justify stigmatizing them as crypto-Nazis out to "censor" Holocaust education. It is possible to want certain materials not to be used in a classroom, for reasons that are not connected to some Nazi conspiracy.

And again, the question: do schools in McMinn County use or stock any other books to do with the Holocaust? Unless we have that missing piece of information, we're not yet in a position to judge exactly what's really going on here -- but apparently that doesn't prevent people from making lazy assumptions and crass generalizations.

lol you seem super eager to defend possible nazis. I read Muas in 6th or 7th grade it wasnt traumatic it was very educational

Nasty_Nitro posted...

lol you seem super eager to defend possible nazis. I read Muas in 6th or 7th grade it wasnt traumatic it was very educational

Yeah dude is pretty clearly arguing in bad faith.

I guarantee you eighth graders have seen far more horrific s*** than nudity and some swears.

McMarbles posted...

I guarantee you eighth graders have seen far more horrific s*** than nudity and some swears.

whats crazy is when I was in middle school we had dial up internet and grand theft auto and bet uncut and we were still obsessed with sex and violence i can only imagine the actual nudity and violence kids look up on their Ipads today

McMarbles posted...

I guarantee you eighth graders have seen far more horrific s*** than nudity and some swears.

...and parents blissfully ignoring that junior is almost certainly jacking it to freaky porn upwards of a dozen times a day, but mouse tits and some bad words at school are right the fuck out.

I don't even remember where the nudity even is in Maus. I'll go look for it when I get home from work.

If this is gone for language and nudity, then Huck Finn better not be allowed within 500 feet of a school.

Jiek_Fafn posted...

then Huck Finn better not be allowed within 500 feet of a school.

That's one of the "classically banned" books, though.

ScazarMeltex posted...

Yeah dude is pretty clearly arguing in bad faith.

The school's assistant principal, Julie Goodin, champions Spiegleman's book during the school board meeting and says it's "a great way to depict a horrific time in history".

You: "That means she's a Nazi sympathizer who's trying to sanitize and silence discussion about the Holocaust. You're defending a Nazi. You must be a Nazi."

No one who claims that this is a Nazi conspiracy to stifle Holocaust education can answer the simple but important question: Do schools in McMinn County have any other books about the Holocaust in the library, or use them in class? In other words, has the school not actually banned all books about the Holocaust -- only Spiegelman's book, and not specifically because it's about the Holocaust? Should we at least bother to find out?

You: "No. I don't need to know all the facts. Facts aren't the truth, my opinions are the truth. The only people who think it's important to know more facts before they make a judgement are Nazis. You must be a Nazi."

Spare me the self-righteous posturing. You don't even have a fucking argument. That's why you carefully sidestepped those points: because a boring insistence on mundane facts takes all the fun out of indiscriminate shit-slinging, finger-pointing, and name-calling.

Please, don't ever sit on a jury. The justice system's in a bad enough state as it is. Lynch mobs and kangaroo courts seem to be more your thing, anyway.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

Someone who insists that there's only one reason, ever, to ban anything related to the Holocaust (use your finger to slowly trace that word, "anything"; let your lips move with the syllables) is already comparing banning Maus to not letting first graders see the most horrific parts of the Holocaust.

I'd just like to know if the absolutist clowns who insist there are no legitimate circumstances, ever, to censor or ban anything related to the Holocaust would be prepared to take back those words if some parents thought their children were too young to be exposed to its graphic horrors -- or if they'd just sling even more shit at the parents and straight out accuse them of being Nazis. I know where my bet's going.

stupid and dumb

CelestialVoices posted...

stupid and dumb

It is stupid and it is dumb to be so prudish about 13 and 14 year old kids reading swear words or seeing a cartoon image of a naked woman. That's not in doubt. The question is, are they doing it because they're a bunch of silly prudes who've already banned a ton of other books from school for similar daft reasons (do they do this sort of thing a lot in Tennessee?), or are they doing because they're all Nazis engaged in a Holocaust denial conspiracy targeted at this one book?

That's the heart of the issue here. When in doubt, always go for the more dramatic explanation and don't bother digging deeper for the facts.

So I read Maus like, 3 months ago, and legitimately can't recall any times of like, nudity. I'm not denying its in there, but I can't imagine it is anything close to significant enough to warrant banning.

If you're banning a book for the word "damn" or something like that its just like, what?

If I had to think of anything in its defence, I would imagine since its an eighth grade history class (and eighth graders are horrible) they ended up having some nasty things to say about it instead of treating the situation with the respect it would need.

Also the article in the OP is pretty inconsistent, are they banning the book (like, you can't read it in the library if you wanted) or just removing it from the curriculum? Removing a book from the curriculum is dumb if its for nudity or language (my 9th grade curriculum had to Kill a Mockingbird in it), but as long as its still there and available, I guess that's okay?

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/9/8/8/AAGadeAAC3Gk.jpg

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

barely-drawn mouse penis on pages 25, 26 and 58 of volume 2

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

murica is so weird

If they really think that a naked mouse is the most disturbing thing in that book then I just don't know what to say.

This is sinister as fuck no matter how you cut it.

God forbid that 8th grade kids read some cuss words in-between practicing drills to hide from school shooters

Spiegelman should call their bluff, and do a half-assed "school library" version with Q-bert swears and barbie-doll anatomy.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


Oh, I'm sure they don't, too.

What was the flimsy excuse used for why this book is supposedly harmful to youth?

FortuneCookie posted...

What was the flimsy excuse used for why this book is supposedly harmful to youth?

The article is in the OP.

FortuneCookie posted...

What was the flimsy excuse used for why this book is supposedly harmful to youth?

We swear we arent nazis dude believe us breh

sutree posted...

The article is in the OP.

I don't feel like combing an article for the answer. We know the reason anyway.

Why would you bump the topic with a link to a topic that no longer exists

UnholyMudcrab posted...

Why would you bump the topic with a link to a topic that no longer exists

The TRUTH

UnholyMudcrab posted...

Of course, we all know the school board's actual reason for banning the book, but their stated rationale for the ban? It contains the phrase "god damn" and some naked mice.

I mean I know some of you are reactionary people who just want to look for any reason for Nazis to exist in this world but these reasons seem to line up with conservative values and society in general.

Is it so crazy to think this is the reason when we have every curse word on live television bleeped out while the idea that violence is okay but nudity is bad if so prevalent? Or would you just rather think that they're secretly Nazis?

Has anyone bothered to see what the replacement curriculum is? I grew up going to Conservative Christian schools and they bashed us over the head with every Holocaust book in existence. Also since when has a graphic novel ever been part of a school's reading curriculum?

I read Maus in 7th grade. I checked it out from my middle school library.

I checked out a lot worse books from my middle school library. Shit in sixth grade I did a book report on Crichton's Rising Sun. It had a lot more language and sex than Maus ever did.

Compsognathus posted...

I checked out a lot worse books from my middle school library. Shit in sixth grade I did a book report on Crichton's Rising Sun. It had a lot more language and sex than Maus ever did.

Yeah, but would you be able to find it in a school library in McMinn County? That's the kind of question that needs to be asked and answered before everyone runs around complaining that the school board is singling out Maus by holding it to a ridiculously high standard that doesn't get applied to other books within the board's purview.

Criminalt posted...

Yeah, but would you be able to find it in a school library in McMinn County? That's the kind of question that needs to be asked and answered before everyone runs around complaining that the school board is singling out Maus by holding it to a ridiculously high standard that doesn't get applied to other books within the board's purview.

A state being more conservative does make it okay to censor shit.

And I went to school in Kansas so it's hardly like I grew up in a liberal bastion.

dioxxys posted...

I mean I know some of you are reactionary people

Alright, you've made me angry. Don't call me a fucking reactionary.

Compsognathus posted...

A state being more conservative does make it okay to censor shit.

And I went to school in Kansas so it's hardly like I grew up in a liberal bastion.

You're missing the point. The point here is what the school board in McMinn County, Tennessee, does or does not censor. I'm betting that some conservative school boards are more stringent than others (or emphasize different red flags than others), so what may be allowed in one may not necessarily be allowed in another.

What's at issue isn't whether or not censorship per se is OK, or whether or not the McMinn County school board is being ridiculously prudish (which clearly it is).

What's at issue is: is the McMinn Country school board making a special case out of Maus, and banning it for reasons that they don't routinely apply to other books? Or are they simply being consistent with their own silly, prudish (but long-established) policies on what can and cannot be used in class, and there's nothing necessarily sinister or neo-Nazi conspiratorial about all this? In other words, is the real beef that they're failed to make a rule-breaking exception for Maus?

I don't know what the answer to the questions are, but they should at least be asked. If you believe that Maus deserves an exception because of its subject matter and that the board's decision should be reconsidered, that's a legitimate viewpoint. But smearing school board members as literal Nazis for failing to consider making one -- I don't believe that's legitimate.

UnholyMudcrab posted...

Alright, you've made me angry. Don't call me a fucking reactionary.

I was going to make a joke about how you are are reacting strongly, thus you are a reactionary but upon googling the word, it doesnt mean what I thought it did.

This graphic novel is something people need to read, and the message is important.