Current Events > 54k Tesla's recalled- cars run stop signs in "self-driving" mode

(+) Yeah! (+)

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/02/01/tesla-to-recall-nearly-54000-vehicles-that-may-disobey-stop-signs.html

It is worth noting, this was not a bug, this was a deliberate feature

I thought rolling stops were technically against the law

ThEy SaVe LiVeS

God I wish Tesla wasn't such a shitty manufacturer

They're just simulating what real drivers do /s

But yeah, that's dumb that they do a rolling stop by design. I doubt "the self drive mode did it" will get you out of that stop sign ticket lol.

DepreceV2 posted...

I thought rolling stops were technically against the law

That's the fun part: they are!

Also glad this is getting bigger attention. It was going around twitter for a while but it didn't seem like many big news outlets were reporting on it.

That's crazy. What's even crazier is the software upgrade is $12000 for full driving mode.

elon musk is a piece of fuck

I don't think self driving modes are practical

A California company has to issue a software patch for a California rolling stop smh.

It's self-driving mode, not self-stopping mode. People will complain about anything these days.

The simple reality here is that a self-driving car that 100% follows the rules of the road will piss off an entire generation of drivers, both in the car and around it. It may be legally necessary, but try driving the speed limit and letting literally anyone who wants to merge cut you off and after a week you'll be demanding Tesla put their asshole mode back in.

s0nicfan posted...

The simple reality here is that a self-driving car that 100% follows the rules of the road will piss off an entire generation of drivers, both in the car and around it. It may be legally necessary, but try driving the speed limit and letting literally anyone who wants to merge cut you off and after a week you'll be demanding Tesla put their asshole mode back in.

Lol shut the fuck up.

Doom_Art posted...

God I wish Tesla wasn't such a shitty manufacturer

Tesla having poor quality components is possibly the only thing I've seen people on car forums agree on unanimously.

Indoril posted...

Lol shut the fuck up.

...he's not wrong, though. It's not true everywhere, but there are certianly places where if you drive to the letter of the law, you WILL piss off everyone else on the road. Heck, around where I live, the speed limit on the main road is 100, and seeing people go 120, only to get overtaken by going by someone even faster, is a daily occurence. If you went 100 around here (and there wasn't a cop around) you'd probably end up with someone trying to run you off the road.

Trumble posted...

...he's not wrong, though. It's not true everywhere, but there are certianly places where if you drive to the letter of the law, you WILL piss off everyone else on the road. Heck, around where I live, the speed limit on the main road is 100, and seeing people go 120, only to get overtaken by going by someone even faster, is a daily occurence. If you went 100 around here (and there wasn't a cop around) you'd probably end up with someone trying to run you off the road.

Exactly. Once they're ubiquitous it will be far less of a problem, but during that in between period where it's a blend of self-driving and regular cars it's going to cause problems.

Hell, for some people with hour long commutes, asking them to go the speed limit the entire time is forcing them to suck up in some cases 30 plus minutes of additional commute, every day. Sure, they could use that time to read a book or browse the web on their phone, but it's a very real cost people are going to have to be comfortable with.

I'm also not saying it's a good thing that people blatantly ignore the rules of the road, but its still how things currently operate in the real world.

Self driving cars are not the future nor fit for the road.

Hop103 posted...

Self driving cars are not the future nor fit for the road.

As someone who owns a Tesla, this is false. Auto-steer on the freeway is great. Obviously, full self driving in the city is more complex and will need more work to be perfected.

s0nicfan posted...

Exactly. Once they're ubiquitous it will be far less of a problem, but during that in between period where it's a blend of self-driving and regular cars it's going to cause problems.

Hell, for some people with hour long commutes, asking them to go the speed limit the entire time is forcing them to suck up in some cases 30 plus minutes of additional commute, every day. Sure, they could use that time to read a book or browse the web on their phone, but it's a very real cost people are going to have to be comfortable with.

I'm also not saying it's a good thing that people blatantly ignore the rules of the road, but its still how things currently operate in the real world.

Honestly, if we ever reached a point where 100% of the cars on the road are self driving, city commutes would actually be faster. Stupid things people do behind the wheel are mostly why we move so slowly during rush hour.

Of course, we'll never reach that point, without forcing people to switch cars.

https://twitter.com/TaylorOgan/status/1488555256162172928

I figured that feature was going to be gone as soon as the NHTSA caught wind of it.

NoxObscuras posted...

Honestly, if we ever reached a point where 100% of the cars on the road are self driving, city commutes would actually be faster. Stupid things people do behind the wheel are mostly why we move so slowly during rush hour.

Of course, we'll never reach that point, without forcing people to switch cars.

True, but there's also the dramatic increase in the need for contextual reasoning to prevent permanent gridlock because 2 autonomous cars at an intersection can't "agree" on who has the right of way. If both believe they don't, and both are coded to never ever violate the law, then that intersection is permanently bricked until manual intervention, which in a fully autonomous world may mean asking someone who's never had to actually drive their own car to take control.

s0nicfan posted...

True, but there's also the dramatic increase in the need for contextual reasoning to prevent permanent gridlock because 2 autonomous cars at an intersection can't "agree" on who has the right of way. If both believe they don't, and both are coded to never ever violate the law, then that intersection is permanently bricked until manual intervention, which in a fully autonomous world may mean asking someone who's never had to actually drive their own car to take control.

IMO, we would need some kind of communication protocol so that cars can actually work out that kind of thing in real time before we ever have fully autonomous driving. In networking, there are already collision avoidance protocols that use similar logic to keep multiple devices on a shared link like wifi from broadcasting at the same time.

CableZL posted...

IMO, we would need some kind of communication protocol so that cars can actually work out that kind of thing in real time before we ever have fully autonomous driving. In networking, there are already collision avoidance protocols that use similar logic to keep multiple devices on a shared link like wifi from broadcasting at the same time.

Definitely, but this is also one of those cases where managing comms in a 100% automation future is far, far easier than a world where half the cars are self driving and half aren't. It may end up being like seatbelts where all cars are required to add some kind of comms module to be street legal, but those self driving cars will still need some method of dealing with cars they see but can't "hear."

It's emulating real people lol. If there's a stop sign and no one is clearly there, I'll slow down, look, and then go through

This is what happens when you write code for vehicles, you don't drive yourself or understand highway traffic laws.

Alucard188 posted...

This is what happens when you write code for vehicles, you don't drive yourself or understand highway traffic laws.

Actually, I think they understand drivers too well, which is part of the problem. Breaking the law and putting other people's lives in danger should not be inherent to driving

SydneySweenHero posted...

It's emulating real people lol. If there's a stop sign and no one is clearly there, I'll slow down, look, and then go through

This is your EMT people

s0nicfan posted...

which in a fully autonomous world may mean asking someone who's never had to actually drive their own car to take control.

People are going to see this in 20 years and laugh. Either people will still need to be capable of manually driving a car to get licensed, or the cars will do a virtual rock paper scissors to decide who goes.

ToPoPO posted...

This is your EMT people

I mean, he's speaking to reality. There are indeed a lot of people who do California stops.

ToPoPO posted...

This is your EMT people

I'm a retired EMT/medic lieutenant.

He didn't say anything wrong. Nobody likes nerds who come to a complete, 3 second long stop when the coast is clear and safe.

I was looking at Tealas today and when the fuck did the Model 3 go from 35k to 40k and 6k for self driving to 12k?

Fuck Tesla, I hope all these actual car manufacturers start becoming ev competitive

hyperpowder posted...

I was looking at Tealas today and when the fuck did the Model 3 go from 35k to 40k and 6k for self driving to 12k?

Fuck Tesla, I hope all these actual car manufacturers start becoming ev competitive

FSD went up to 12k within the past couple weeks, I think. It's at the point where I'd say it's definitely not worth buying just yet unless you just have the extra $12k to spend on it and you want it. The flip side of that coin is that they only seem to be increasing the price of it as time goes on.

FSD Beta V11 is supposed to be a pretty big upgrade in that they're gonna be combining FSD and Navigate on Autopilot into a single stack, but... I doubt that's gonna make it worth $12k.

DepreceV2 posted...

I thought rolling stops were technically against the law

Nothing technical about it. They dont put up stop signs for fun and they arent a suggestion.

Krojen posted...

A California company has to issue a software patch for a California rolling stop smh.

Its a Texas company now!

Hop103 posted...

Self driving cars are not the future nor fit for the road.

Yes it is and once its advanced enough human drivers need to be banned. We obviously arent close to that yet

Butterfiles posted...

Actually, I think they understand drivers too well, which is part of the problem. Breaking the law and putting other people's lives in danger should not be inherent to driving

Unfortunately, it is inherent to driving, thus a good reason why such technology doesn't belong in cars, because at least people can have second thoughts, AI can't.

Hop103 posted...

Unfortunately, it is inherent to driving, thus a good reason why such technology doesn't belong in cars, because at least people can have second thoughts, AI can't.

AI can have second thoughts. Said second thoughts need to be programmed in, though.

The grift continues.

ToPoPO posted...

This is your EMT people

lol, I bet you also don't turn on red when a "don't turn on red" sign is there but no one is around

SydneySweenHero posted...

lol, I bet you also don't turn on red when a "don't turn on red" sign is there but no one is around

its the law and you get fined if you do that

Kloe_Rinz posted...

its the law and you get fined if you do that

Out of the 1000s of times I've done it, I've been pulled over once and the cop was like "just dont do it again" and let me go scotfree.

Obviously I did it many many times afterwards >_> Plus I can probably just flash my badge and get out of minor traffic tickets anyway. Kinda like how being Thane in Skyrim lets you get away with minor crimes lol

So....This is how Skynet starts?

SydneySweenHero posted...

Out of the 1000s of times I've done it, I've been pulled over once and the cop was like "just dont do it again" and let me go scotfree.

lucky you, living somewhere that cops are lenient. i get the full punishment if im doing 5km/h over the speed limit on a sparse highway here as would most people anywhere. never blame someone whos trying not to get punished again

s0nicfan posted...

The simple reality here is that a self-driving car that 100% follows the rules of the road will piss off an entire generation of drivers, both in the car and around it. It may be legally necessary, but try driving the speed limit and letting literally anyone who wants to merge cut you off and after a week you'll be demanding Tesla put their asshole mode back in.

Nah man. If you had cars that were perfectly compliant you could literally just get rid of stop signs and traffic lights. Cars will automatically stop when they need to and keep going otherwise. Zero congestion ever again.

Everyone would have to be using one though.

Kloe_Rinz posted...

i get the full punishment if im doing 5km/h over the speed limit on a sparse highway here as would most people anywhere.

Damn, that's awful. Here, people literally go 25mph over the speed limit and no one gets pulled over >_> I only go about 15-20 over and there's people still on my ass trying to get me to move over lol

Butterfiles posted...

It is worth noting, this was not a bug, this was a deliberate feature

XD

Doom_Art posted...

God I wish Tesla wasn't such a shitty manufacturer

Yeah, they're probably setting back the self-driving car movement.. although anyplace would have issues.