Current Events > Do you think video games should be a platform for addressing social injustices?

(+) Yeah! (+)

ellis123 posted...

You are also confusing "anti-authority" with "anti-intellectual."

That's not my intent. I'm trying to say both exist within these franchises. Independently, but with equal amount of disdain.

Gobstoppers12 posted...

We can make certain assumptions based on the Imperial command structure. Tarkin was sent by Palpatine to oversee and command the Death Star, which I'm sure included protocols and guidelines as to precisely how the Death Star should be implemented. There's never any indication that Tarkin has gone rogue or made some kind of radical decision within the context of his service to the Empire.

And yet he wasn't ordered to do so. He acted, without Vader's prior knowledge ("What do you mean?"), and was then justified at the time by Vader and after the fact by the Emperor.

I'm not saying he went rogue. I'm saying he acted in a manner that was in accordance within the system of the Empire and its goals.

Remember, you're the one trying to spin that the Empire itself is nothing more than the will of a single person. The fact alone that Tarkin acted independently to commit genocide shows that the rot is systemic and goes all the way down.

So we can, based on the context of the film, safely assume that destroying Alderaan was well within the range of Tarkin's assigned duties. There's nothing present within the material to suggest otherwise.

I think you're over-committing to the idea that Tarkin's duties involved planetary destruction.

I think you're trying to make excuses in order to justify this mental place you live in where "Star Wars isn't political" because if it were then you'd feel you'd have to not like it for some reason.

hockeybub89 posted...

You seriously think every artist throughout history only makes statements with their art so faux intellectuals will praise them?

Do I think that's the sole driving force? No.

Do I think it's a significant factor when the artist is being particularly preachy? Yeah, I sure do.

Gobstoppers12 posted...

It's the reality of producing entertainment. People want cool, catchy, fun, colorful stuff to experience. The political shit takes a far, far back seat on the plane to the rest of that stuff.

Yeah unfortunately most people have no attention span and are easily distracted by pretty colors. All the dumbest vapid shit is the most popular.

I voted idgaf because I believe games can be anything and its up to the devs.

If devs want to get political in their games thats their right, and if they dont thats their right too.

Gobstoppers12 posted...

Do I think it's a significant factor when the artist is being particularly preachy? Yeah, I sure do.

Ready to name any game example, or what the preachy line is that shouldn't be crossed?

You seem pretty preachy by essentially advocating that people shouldn't take art seriously. That's not very open-minded and neutral.

CyricZ posted...

I think you're over-committing to the idea that Tarkin's duties involved planetary destruction.

He was literally chosen to be the top commander of a planet-destroying super-weapon. His mission was to locate and destroy the planet upon which the rebel base was located. So yeah, his duties absolutely involved planetary destruction. How could you possibly infer that they didn't?

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/8/0/1/AAWHm8AAC69p.jpg

hockeybub89 posted...

You seem pretty preachy by essentially advocating that people shouldn't take art seriously. That's not very open-minded and neutral.

I'm literally making a statement with my own voice right now. I'm not creating an entertainment product. This discussion pertains specifically to entertainment products being used as a platform to spew political stuff that people otherwise wouldn't care about.

It's fine to preach out of your own mouth, because then people can easily ignore everything you're saying. When you mix your preaching into an entertainment product that has other redeeming qualities, such that people will 'tolerate' your preaching just so they can experience the rest, it becomes a balancing act of: "How much preaching is too much? What can I get away with before I start losing people's interest?"

Gobstoppers12 posted...

His mission was to locate and destroy the planet upon which the rebel base was located. So yeah, his duties absolutely involved planetary destruction. How could you possibly infer that they didn't?

Because he destroyed a planet that he knew didn't have the Rebel Base.

Gobstoppers12 posted...

it becomes a balancing act of: "How much preaching is too much? What can I get away with before I start losing people's interest?"

I don't think anyone was ever suggesting it was easy.

CyricZ posted...

That's not my intent. I'm trying to say both exist within these franchises. Independently, but with equal amount of disdain.

Once again, though, they aren't opposites. Similarly the act of both being present only works as a political thing if both aspects are given similar weight or are taken equally seriously. However, it is quite easy to point out that they aren't. The act of being "anti-police" is treated purely as a gameplay thing mixed with such an extreme indifference as a function of society that it is hard to call the game anti-authoritarian in real world terms. Inversely the act of poking fun of/flat out ridiculing society is extremely important but only through the lens of stereotypes across all functions. That is actually a major reason that South Park wasn't as popular with adults as The Simpsons early on as it didn't actually have anything to say. As time went on, however, the children who watched South Park grew up and it morphed into its more popular status. South Park is the millennial's Spiderman x Elsa.

Gobstoppers12 posted...

I'm literally making a statement with my own voice right now. I'm not creating an entertainment product. This discussion pertains specifically to entertainment products being used as a platform to spew political stuff that people otherwise wouldn't care about.

It's fine to preach out of your own mouth, because then people can easily ignore everything you're saying. When you mix your preaching into an entertainment product that has other redeeming qualities, such that people will 'tolerate' your preaching just so they can experience the rest, it becomes a balancing act of: "How much preaching is too much? What can I get away with before I start losing people's interest?"

Maybe you should just stop being entertained rather than jump through hoops to avoid taking any of it seriously, since you disagree with a driving force of the production of art through human history.

"Everyone just wants to stare at pretty colors and hear nice sounds, and these intellectuals want to beat us over the head with message. I'll show them by smugly enjoying their art and telling them to shove their message up their ass."

CyricZ posted...

Because he destroyed a planet that he knew didn't have the Rebel Base.

Okay, but to assert that this was somehow outside of his directives, you'd have to come up with a reason to suggest as much. Some hint of friction, some slight indication that Tarkin was making the decision entirely on his own. The destruction of Alderaan wasn't even slightly controversial on the Empire's side of things. We didn't get the first hints of Imperial dissention until The Mandalorian showed us a few characters who were ex-Empire. For the OT, there was no suggestion of gray morality among the death star crew. The film did not deliver any sort of shaded political message in that scene. The message of that scene was "The Empire is fucking evil, and this is why you should hate them"

Any shades of nuance to the Imperial ranks came later. They even intentionally cut the scene in Return of the Jedi in which one of the imperial officers tried to delay the destruction of the forest moon because they had their own troops down there. It was a whole subplot where they were supposed to destroy Endor during the battle, but there was finally some gumption from the ranks.

But that got cut, so within the original trilogy there is absolutely no suggestion that the Empire contains any people who aren't willing participants in the Emperor's evil shenanigans.

hockeybub89 posted...

Maybe you should just stop being entertained rather than jump through hoops to avoid taking any of it seriously, since you disagree with a driving force of the production of art through human history.

"Everyone just wants to stare at pretty colors and hear nice sounds, and these intellectuals want to beat us over the head with message. I'll show them by smugly enjoying their art and telling them to shove their message up their ass."

Stop being entertained? Why would I do that? I enjoy entertainment when it's well crafted. Stuff that tips the balance into being preachy becomes something I would say is not well-crafted, though.

Your attempted distillation of my point is a little too snarky, but it's not entirely inaccurate. I do get some sense of joy out of enjoying art without caring for its political message. It's a way of expressing agency and personal power, you know?

This artist created this song to 'teach me' about something political, but I'm just gonna listen to it as a piece of music and continue to do the exact thing the artist is telling me not to do.

No. Keep that cringe outta gaming