Current Events > Reminder that Onix has a base attack of 45 >_>

(+) Yeah! (+)

Onix was definitely a massively disappointing Pokmon as a kid. The catch rate was low too, so I remember chucking pokeballs at those things in dark cave and being so excited when I finally got one.

And back then I didn't fully understand the rules, or what the stats meant, or what a base stat was, so I didn't understand how my giant rock snake was so weak offensively and defensively. Really lame.

Doesn't help too that Onix has two 4x weakness along with a shitty Sp. Def. Give Onix/Steelix a Base Stat total similar to Slaking.

Onix being crap is all due to making the first gym not too hard right?

You saw that meme about pulling charizard out of the pipe, didn't you?

DarkChozoGhost posted...

You saw that meme about pulling charizard out of the pipe, didn't you?

no. wut?

It's a screencap of the Pikachu short in the first pokemon movie. Charizard was stuck in a pipe, and all the pokemon together were pulling on a rope to get him out. Somebody circled Onix, asking why he could do it himself, which was responded to by comments that his attack is only 45, as low as butterfree.

It's just the second time today I've seen this brought up, figured you might have seen that post on social media

DB_Insider posted...

God wtf was gamefreak thinking making variation of this butt ugly pokemon

"we need to pad out the pokedex with redundant crap since we aren't using any old ones this time, and people will be pissed if the game only has like 90 pokemon. ok so let's make two legendary trios"
"but we don't have the time to do that"
"who cares. just make some guy in a cloud, then make two more of him in different colors. if people really care, we can add some crappy bird form or something in the next game. call it a therian form or some crap"

"ok cool. what else?"
"oh. um, take that grass monkey,"
"this one?"
"yeah. that one, and now make one in fire and water as well."
"um ok. it probably won't look so good"
"who cares, just do it"

"ok they're hideous but that's six monkey pokemon. now what."

"add some evolutions and preevolutions"

"hm? like what?"

"see that chinchilla thing? Take off its scarf, boom. new pre-evolution. easy as pie"

"but it's just the same as before but without a scarf..."

"THEY won't care. And that gear pokemon? make it a three-stage line."
"but it already barely changes from Klink to Klingklang...does it really need three forms?"
"just delete one of the cogs from the end form and call it a secondary stage"

"um ... ok."

"oh and also make that cell pokemon into a three-stage line. and the icicle cream cone. and also the schnauzer. oh, and why haven't you made a useless generic fish pokemon yet? what else are we supposed to spam the water routes with?"

*sigh*

SydneySweenHero posted...

I miss triple battles. I wish they stayed for more than 2 gens

Same. Both normal triple battles and rotation battles.

Hambo the Hog posted...

Are they not even an option in SwSh?

They got rid of them in Sun & Moon.

DB_Insider posted...

Rotation, inverse and sky battles need some love

Especially inverse. I would love for that to be an option when battling people. That was such a mind-fuck.

Kisai posted...

They got rid of them in Sun & Moon.

Weird, I thought I remembered triples in the postgame battle facility in Sun, but I guess I was thinking of ORAS lol. Guess it doesn't help that I barely played the one in Sun.

Especially inverse. I would love for that to be an option when battling people. That was such a mind-fuck.

Those really threw me for a loop lol. Just a constant stream of "Yes! They sent out a Gyarados against my electric poke--oh wait."

haloiscoolisbak posted...

Onix being crap is all due to making the first gym not too hard right?

Maybe? It's hard to say since one of the most obvious "make this suck to help the player" qualities it has is that Rock Throw is horrendously bad in gen 1 (65 accuracy!) but...Brock's Onix doesn't actually have it. In general gen 1 is just a total shitshow that never makes any sense with minimal thought put into a lot of things. Just look at Hitmonchan's whole gimmick of getting all the elemental punches...with a 35 special that means it can't hurt shit with them (it doesn't even come close to a 3HKO on Dragonite with Ice Punch...it only has a 32% chance of 2HKOing Caterpie with Fire Punch...). Or the "good" AI that will spam Agility forever vs Poison/Fighting types. Or the fact that so many boss fights feature absolutely awful movesets where the opposing Pokemon has barely anything that can even affect you.

Pokemon that have a 385 BST: Butterfree, Beedrill, Onix, Beautifly, Dustox, Kubfu, Lickitung, Mudbray, and Poliwhirl.
That's right: Onix has as much stats as a Poliwhirl, but its stats are distributed extremely poorly: its 160 base defense accounts for wholly 42% of its BST, and its pitiful HP and ATK mean it has no hope of actually leveraging the stat. Even before considering its abhorrent defensive typing and special defense.

Steelix's BST is a quite respectable 510, but, again, a full 39% of its BST is in defense. Steelix gets passable HP (75) and a greatly improved defensive typing, but its attack is still quite low at 85, and 65 special defense means its only tanking hits from one end. Its glacially low 30 SPD is notable for being a full 40 base points lower than Onix. This is the same amount as seen in Scyther -> Scizor, but Scizor is so much better in just about every way than Steelix (then and now) that it almost feels punitive. It wouldn't be insane to at least give Steelix back those 40 points of speed: this would give it the same BST as Volcarona and it still wouldn't be great, just as fast as, say...a Skarmory.

Remember in the anime when Meowth fought Brock and his onix? Meowth threw a bucket of water which knocked onix out and Brock was like "Throwing water is cheating!"

BlackBlueButts posted...

Remember in the anime when Meowth fought Brock and his onix? Meowth threw a bucket of water which knocked onix out and Brock was like "Throwing water is cheating!"

no lol, do you have a clip of it?

It's pretty obvious that Onix was designed as an early game boss-type character, with little thought put in to how it could be used by the player later on. Then with later game generations, other than giving it an evolution, they never really fixed Onix, so it's just kinda in that weird limbo.

SydneySweenHero posted...

Unironically, it probably has the Sturdy ability allowing it to survive with 1 HP, then it would use endeavor to lower the attacker down to 1 HP. That's a legit strat

probably holding Shell Bell to heal it back to full again

FL81 posted...

It's pretty obvious that Onix was designed as an early game boss-type character, with little thought put in to how it could be used by the player later on. Then with later game generations, other than giving it an evolution, they never really fixed Onix, so it's just kinda in that weird limbo.

Tbf Onix is hardly alone in Pokemon that need to be fixed

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/9/2/1/AAcI8BAAC6_h.jpg

SydneySweenHero posted...

no lol, do you have a clip of it?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0KvVyOJunus

Heartomaton posted...

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/9/2/1/AAcI8BAAC6_h.jpg

lmao

There's far too many useless Pokemon

Like who the fuck is gonna use Stantler?

Weak

PowerOats posted...

There's far too many useless Pokemon

Like who the fuck is gonna use Stantler?

He got a decent evolution in Legends

Paragon21XX posted...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0KvVyOJunus

LOL i miss the early pokemon anime It has so many silly moments

SydneySweenHero posted...

no lol, do you have a clip of it?

https://youtu.be/0KvVyOJunus

how would you buff it stat wise iyo

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

Wow, that's just sad

inTaCtfuL posted...

how would you buff it stat wise iyo

At least double HP and Attack stats. I'd leave everything same, even the weak ass Sp. Def

You could take 60 or more from his defense and put it in att/hp

averagejoel posted...

probably holding Shell Bell to heal it back to full again

Quick Attack.

SydneySweenHero posted...

LOL i miss the early pokemon anime It has so many silly moments

I remember Gary's Golem getting 1 shot by a Dragon Rage even though in the games it would be impossible for it to only have 40 HP.

'Member when razor leaf had no effect on a golem, and then charmander set that thing on fire and won?

PowerOats posted...

There's far too many useless Pokemon

Like who the fuck is gonna use Stantler?

I liked Stantler in Gen 2. But yeah, Arceus really did Stantler justice with that dope evo.

'Member in the first scene of the first movie when Ash's Pikachu defeated a Golem with Thunderbolt?

Defense in pokemon sucks. What's the point of having high defense if your special defense is shitty? You'll still get killed. There should only be one defense stat imo.

Lyrica posted...

Defense in pokemon sucks. What's the point of having high defense if your special defense is shitty? You'll still get killed. There should only be one defense stat imo.

There are pokemon with specialized roles that could swap in on Pokemon that is stronger in atk or sp.atk. Tangrowth fro example is a great defensive Pokemon because of its high defense although it's special defense isn't great. Most Pokemon that have high bsts in both tend to have lower hp or no offense unless they're legendaries. No reason for onix to have great sp defense since it's basically just a giant rock.

Lyrica posted...

Defense in pokemon sucks. What's the point of having high defense if your special defense is shitty? You'll still get killed. There should only be one defense stat imo.

Two attacks, two defenses.

Works a hell of a lot better now, too.

Lyrica posted...

Defense in pokemon sucks. What's the point of having high defense if your special defense is shitty? You'll still get killed. There should only be one defense stat imo.

Oh yeah let's just have Blissey be explicitly impossible to kill for basically any Pokemon that isn't built specifically to trap it then taunt+Toxic it

Kisai posted...

Same. Both normal triple battles and rotation battles.

They got rid of them in Sun & Moon.

Especially inverse. I would love for that to be an option when battling people. That was such a mind-fuck.

It was satisfying hitting ghost types with super effective normal moves

TIL Onix is faster than it is strong.

Wetterdew posted...

"we need to pad out the pokedex with redundant crap since we aren't using any old ones this time, and people will be pissed if the game only has like 90 pokemon. ok so let's make two legendary trios"
"but we don't have the time to do that"
"who cares. just make some guy in a cloud, then make two more of him in different colors. if people really care, we can add some crappy bird form or something in the next game. call it a therian form or some crap"

"ok cool. what else?"
"oh. um, take that grass monkey,"
"this one?"
"yeah. that one, and now make one in fire and water as well."
"um ok. it probably won't look so good"
"who cares, just do it"

"ok they're hideous but that's six monkey pokemon. now what."

"add some evolutions and preevolutions"

"hm? like what?"

"see that chinchilla thing? Take off its scarf, boom. new pre-evolution. easy as pie"

"but it's just the same as before but without a scarf..."

"THEY won't care. And that gear pokemon? make it a three-stage line."
"but it already barely changes from Klink to Klingklang...does it really need three forms?"
"just delete one of the cogs from the end form and call it a secondary stage"

"um ... ok."

"oh and also make that cell pokemon into a three-stage line. and the icicle cream cone. and also the schnauzer. oh, and why haven't you made a useless generic fish pokemon yet? what else are we supposed to spam the water routes with?"

*sigh*

Basculin felt like an afterthough. Luvdisc design seemed much more interesting despite the simplistic design. People like to make fun of gen 1 design like execute, electrode, and muk but i felt like those pokemon stands the test of time much better than a literal trash bag designed by james tuner. Even his argubly the best design like golurk line seemed out of place from the pokemon design and much more suited for creatures in shantae games or something. Gamefreak even make fun of this poor guy by giving the task of designibg the ultra beast which has been advertised as being not like "ordinary" pokemon. That alone shocked him to the core as he gradually getting the sugimori vibes in his design probably for the better.

Is it possible to lose to Onix?

DB_Insider posted...

That alone shocked him to the core

Source?

Kisai posted...

Source?

Serebii.net under the restricted section. No muggles allowed!

DB_Insider posted...

Serebii.net under the restricted section. No muggles allowed!

Ooh, you're just shitposting. My bad.

post 100 lol

i always WANT to believe a fast, physically bulky pokemon could have some sort of setup utility, but...