Board 8 > Saturday March 19th at 9:00 PM EST. B8 Smash Ultimate Tournament FIVE

(+) Yeah! (+)

KommunistKoala posted...

my mains are Ryu and Ken

f

I think it'd be wiser to submit my mains as Jigglypuff and Koopaling.

(And by playtime that's accurate.)

I'd way rather play as King Bowser

I'd way rather play as King Bowser

Smash Reddit posted its monthly consensus tier list, based on user voting. Thought you guys might be interested!

https://i.imgur.com/3NVdUHO.jpeg

Also, for the other stat nerds out there, the OrionStats adds up total points based on character results in tournaments for 2022. Not quite a tier list, but it's a good indicator of which characters are currently thriving in competitive play.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1gRlzy4z_dpqb2ZRhGoqtbDcuvUKz_ROsMZHGegon53M/edit#gid=0

I went ahead and filtered out the characters that we tend to use in our B8 tournaments.

#2 - Palutena - 154.5
#3 - R.O.B. - 142.5
#5 - Mythra/Pyra - 128.5
#7 - Samus - 119.5
#11 - Cloud - 99
#12 - Lucina - 84
#28 - Sephiroth - 53
#29 - Byleth - 52.5
#30 - Diddy Kong - 50
#32 - Bowser - 47
#38 - Shulk - 41
#40 - Ridley - 38.5
#47 - Ike - 27
#51 - Sora - 25
#59 - Jigglypuff - 17
#62 - Duck Hunt - 15
#64 - Bowser Jr. - 14
#67 - Robin - 13.5
#81 - Little Mac - 3.5

I wonder where they get the Cloud number because it's only Spargo and half of Kola that I ever see at high level

There's a bunch of mid-range (by competitive standards) players that we never see because they win some matches here and there while never making Top 16.

Yeah I'd put both DH and Ridley at bottom of mid tier. Sounds about right to me.

I like most of that, but put Cloud and Ness both up a level and move Sephiroth down a level.

oh wait Wario that high? Absolutely not.

quite funny how terrible Mario gets after he earns his PhD

Too busy learning to heal he forgot how to fight

med school takes a lot out of ya

I think I'd move Ness and Kazuya up a tier but everything else seems solid. People on Reddit were complaining about Roy and ROB being in Top+ but those characters have massive strengths that offset their weaknesses

Also move Shulk down a tier, he's lowkey overrated

Gonna try to do some online matches tomorrow after work. I was so close to getting a single game off of people last time, and want to chase that high.

KamikazePotato posted...

I think I'd move Ness and Kazuya up a tier but everything else seems solid. People on Reddit were complaining about Roy and ROB being in Top+ but those characters have massive strengths that offset their weaknesses

Also move Shulk down a tier, he's lowkey overrated

No Shulk is OP he just is too unforgiving and basic. Which kind of seems like an oxymoron but its like...the character himself requires you to have PERFECT spacing and PERFECT decision making because he doesn't really have any built in mixups, he's got low damage combos and poor kill setups, and very predictable safe kill options, so you are just constantly winning neutral over and over again and need hard reads to close out stocks. Compare that to other top tiers who dont have to work as hard. Shulk makes up for that because his neutral game is theoretically broken AF, but its so unreliable for mere mortals

I wouldn't even say it's theoretically broken - his range is huge but the frame data is bad. He's like...fake scary. Seems oppressive until you realize the shield button shuts down everything and he gets little off of grabs. A Shulk player needs to (as you said) repeatedly win neutral and/or cheese stocks or it's very easy to fall behind. This is supported by his competitive representation; the best Shulk in the world by a significant margin (Kome) has insanely inconsistent results and can lose to basically anyone.

I've definitely lost a fair degree of faith in the character as the game has gone on. Outside of picking him to counter Ermine's Duck Hunt, I'll probably start investing in a more consistent swordie. If only Chrom's recovery wasn't so awful...

Random side note, just looked up character weight numbers, did not realize Mewtwo and Sephiroth were THAT low, good gravy

Yeah he has inconsistent results because he's too hard for humans to win with when you can just pick Pyra and spam ftilt or cloud and spam bair lol. But that doesn't change the fact that his neutral theoretically is strongest in the game. Even if he 'loses' to shield, when you're spacing perfectly you're never in danger and you can almost always control the tempo of the match between speed to press advantage, and jump to run away if you want to play lame enough. I'm not saying he's ACTUALLY good in real life but I'm saying the reason why online noob chatters respect him lol

That's fair. Personally when composing a tier list I heavily factor in real-world human usability and not only a character's theoretical upper limit, though. For example I think Pikachu is a tad overrated - very good character, can absolutely body a lot of the cast, but his truly broken stuff is difficult to pull off and he explodes if he makes a moderate-to-large mistake. Leads to inconsistency, which is why ESAM can beat peak MKLeo and then buster out at the very next tournament.

i need to get better so i stop dishonoring and disgracing my apparent top tier characters...

I don't think tier lists matter too much for our level unless you're using an egregiously bad character, and even then I wouldn't be surprised if someone picked Ganondorf and started dunking people. This is by far the most-balanced Smash game. There's no Melee Bowser or Melee Fox. Me wanting to change away from Shulk is mostly a personal thing, not because I think he can't win against Palutena or whoever.

I legitimately believe I cannot beat Samus or Snake with Sephiroth but yes, Ultimate has fantastic balance.

Sephs not even bad against snake but samus sounds tough yeah. Maybe with lag it's really bad but snake vs seph offline I bet would be doable

I sleepwalked with Samus into Elite Smash. There's a video on projectile characters that analyzed frama data vs. added lag delay vs. real human limits and found that full Charge Shot is literally unreactable online unless you're far away, even in ideal online situations. It WAS nice to turn people's bad connections against them for once though. Maybe some of the people I beat with the B button will buy a wired connector now lmao

I think everyone without wired connection blames everyone else's internet being bad if there is lag.

"But I'm 5 feet from my router! It's them!"

"This lag is unplayable"

my brother in christ, you refuse to get a wired adapter and it's 2022

I can't (feasibly) get a wired connection on my switch. W here we live the router was put in my roommates room. Would need a really, really long ethernet cable that spans multiple rooms.

Though I've not experienced much lag in Smash on my connection - at least in our tournaments.

I've had a 100 ft Ethernet cord stretching around the house before where there's a will there's a way

My cat would cause all sorts of chaos with a cable like that!

Though soon when I finally get my own house, I plan on being able to play with a wired connection.

Oh yeah we had two cats, there the trick is to just nail it down and run it across the ceiling mostly.

But yeah it's not something you should do just for this lol

Lucina feels awwwful in lag. Thank God for Samus as a palette cleanser.

I kind of wish I hadn't played the heck out of Ivysaur in PM otherwise I'd probably play PT a lot more in this game. But Ivy just feels so slow and just weird to play in this ver compared to PM that it's just so hard getting used to. My muscle memory for Ivy will always be for his PM version :(

And I get that he's super good and like, the best of the three pokes, it just feels weird, I dunno.

I feel that way about Mewtwo. Omnidirectional float RIP :(

Got bored, decided to make a super serious Wifi Tier List

1. This ranks how much characters are better/worse in lag. It is not a direct tier list ranking. Zelda is probably not a straight-up top tier character in lag, but she does benefit from that format more than almost anyone else, so she gets put in the highest tier.
2. The rankings are relative to each other. Obviously every character is nerfed by lag, but if Character A is slightly nerfed and Character B is unplayable, then Character A does relatively better in that format.
3. Not ordered within tiers.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/0/0/7/AAIpcmAADEiP.jpg

I disagree with ZSS in much worse. Against Stingers there was like 10 times I reacted to flip jump or whatever it's called with shield and every single time I got hit by it because my shield didn't come out in time.

It made me look like an idiot getting hit and grounded by it like 10 times. There's no way I get hit by that shit offline lol.

I can see that. ZSS is one of those characters I have little experience with (both for and against) so I just kinda threw here there.

I'm convinced the Marths do better because it's much harder to parry them and that's one of the main ways to turn the tables on their neutral. >.>

think G&W is definitely near the top

I would disagree on those takes - the Marths don't have the cheese necessary to do well on wifi and MGAW's stuff is just as oppressive offline

zss is infinitely worse online but you can play a cheese flip jump/laser spam playstyle. but to play her right is impossible