Current Events > Skateboarder Taylor Silverman speaks out after placing 2nd to trans competitor

(+) Yeah! (+)

Stop gaslighting

TommyG663513 posted...

Why do I deserve it? What did I say?

I'm pro letting MtF compete with cis females. I just think it is silly to pretend like they won't on average have physical advantages.

I'm also bisexual and have marched in gay pride parades and participated on gay rugby teams. Why view me as an enemy?

Then support them rather than giving fuel to the bigots that want to take them out of female sports, and then open society.

TommyG663513 posted...

Why view me as an enemy?

That would be your antagonizing and abusive behavior.

Hmm

CyricZ posted...

but knowing some folks who never know when it's time to call quits, they will have to leap over giant hurdles and through flaming hoops to try to find a.... argument to something even more vague and intangible.

Which is why these arguments always end up being dead ends.

Deutschenlied posted...

Pretty sure LGBT people are fucking tired of conversations at this point. How many more centuries do they need to convince people they are valid?

CyricZ posted...

That would be your antagonizing and abusive behavior.

QueenCarly posted...

go the fuck away, no one likes you

If you can pretend you don't see the hypocrisy ... then you're a liar

and I was right when I called out that you wouldn't answer my question

Deutschenlied posted...

Then support them rather than giving fuel to the bigots that want to take them out of female sports, and then open society.

Support them? Why do you feel I am not supporting them? You have an incredibly black and white view on this.

Your idea that this is only a slippery slope is entirely unreasonable.

It is silly to act like trans women don't at all have advantages over cis women. Doesn't mean I think they should always compete in different leagues.

Someone in another topic mentioned the idea of removing gender distinctions in certain sports and instead categorizing people by height and weight instead. What is wrong with that idea? It'd work better for individual sports like wrestling, swimming, and weight lifting.

Team sports I don't see much concern by anyone on either side of this debate. It is really individual sports where you see a bigger gap.

TommyG663513 posted...

Someone in another topic mentioned the idea of removing gender distinctions in certain sports and instead categorizing people by height and weight instead. What is wrong with that idea? It'd work better for individual sports like wrestling, swimming, and weight lifting.

This is an awful awful idea.

it would just eliminate women's sports at a professional level

Even men and women at the same height and weight perform differently at wrestling or weight lifting

A 175 pound man can lift more than a 175 pound woman

that's why we have women's divisions in the first place

TommyG663513 posted...

Less body fat and more muscle.

Anti androgens make it more difficult to put on and keep muscle. Fact check your shit before you post it

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

Exactly. Trans women have no place competing with men.

Are women skate border just as skilled as men?

UnfairRepresent posted...

This is an awful awful idea.

it would just eliminate women's sports at a professional level

Even men and women at the same height and weight perform differently at wrestling or weight lifting

A 175 pound man can lift more than a 175 pound woman

that's why we have women's divisions in the first place

We can adjust weight class standards by gender too. I definitely don't think it'd be a great idea in all sports, but certain sports at certain competitiveness levels sure.

Gwynevere posted...

Anti androgens make it more difficult to put on and keep muscle. Fact check your shit before you post it

Um. Can you explain how in any way what you said was counter to what I posted and why it was so necessary for you to be so rude and condescending?

Deutschenlied posted...

Exactly. Trans women have no place competing with men.

And they do have a place competing with cis women?

Ever notice how no one ever takes issue with a FtM competing with cis males?

TommyG663513 posted...

Uh no. You're just being straight crazy. People are obsessed with labeling things as dog whistling and interpreting what others "really mean."

There is certainly some room for interpretation to this, but people like you just take it way too far and act like you are mind readers and anything that runs contrary to your belief system must be hate speech.

I hate beliefs. I try to go out of my way to not believe.

A real pet peeve of mine to see people go on about "mind reading" when someone isn't as easily tricked by incredibly transparent arguments and common human behavior.

Human beings are a lot more predictable and unsubtle than you think they are. But go on pretending most people vocally against trans women in sports are just confused fence sitters that love sportsmanship and feel sad for the situation trans people are in.

We could save so much trouble, time, money if we just stopped giving a damn what other people do that isn't hurting anyone. That's the only political argument I wish people would care about. How tolerance is fiscally responsible.

TommyG663513 posted...

MtF can compete under the M category. There rarely is any sort of rule preventing Fs competing in M categories so no reason to think an MyF couldn't also compete in that category.

TommyG663513 posted...

Why do I deserve it? What did I say?

I'm pro letting MtF compete with cis females. I just think it is silly to pretend like they won't on average have physical advantages.

Hm....

Deutschenlied posted...

I hate beliefs. I try to go out of my way to not believe.

A real pet peeve of mine to see people go on about "mind reading" when someone isn't as easily tricked by incredibly transparent arguments and common human behavior.

Human beings are a lot more predictable and unsubtle than you think they are. But go on pretending most people vocally against trans women in sports are just confused fence sitters that love sportsmanship and feel sad for the situation trans people are in.

We could save so much trouble, time, money if we just stopped giving a damn what other people do that isn't hurting anyone. That's the only political argument I wish people would care about. How tolerance is fiscally responsible.

You clearly do have very strong beliefs despite you denying that.

Maybe just maybe you're interpreting way more negativity than there actually is and perhaps you should stop interpreting the worst in others.

lol git gud women

Also thinking that MtF trans with the new hormones they are taking care going to compete with Men?

How many females you see in college basketball or NBA?

So we talking about varsity+ or kids?

Because your argument is stupid either way

WhitGameR44 posted...

TommyG663513 posted...

Why do I deserve it? What did I say?

I'm pro letting MtF compete with cis females. I just think it is silly to pretend like they won't on average have physical advantages.

Hm....

So....

Do you have an interpretation you want to offer or are you gonna pretend that quoting two separate posts of mine is some sorta gotcha ???

WhitGameR44 posted...

Also thinking that MtF trans with the new hormones they are taking care going to compete with Men?

How many females you see in college basketball or NBA?

So we talking about varsity+ or kids?

Because your argument is stupid either way

I never said they'd be successful, but I said they could try. It depends on the level of competitiveness. Pro sports? No way? Collegiate? Probably not. High school? Maybe depending upon the sport. Various amateur levels across many different sports? I'm sure there are plenty who could compete.

TommyG663513 posted...

And they do have a place competing with cis women?

Ever notice how no one ever takes issue with a FtM competing with cis males?

They either compete with women or they don't compete at all since there aren't enough trans female athletes in any one place to justify a trans league.

And trans men are famously invisible to the anti-trans crowd. People care more about trans women in bathrooms than trans men too. Does that mean the argument has merit there? No one is ever worried about trans men outside of maybe worrying about their souls. It certainly isn't easy to be trans at all in America, especially on a personal level, but trans women are the much more public punching bag.

Deutschenlied posted...

They either compete with women or they don't compete at all since there aren't enough trans female athletes in any one place to justify a trans league.

And trans men are famously invisible to the anti-trans crowd. People care more about trans women in bathrooms than trans men too. Does that mean the argument has merit there? No one is ever worried about trans men outside of maybe worrying about their souls. It certainly isn't easy to be trans at all in America, especially on a personal level, but trans women are the much more public punching bag.

They compete with women.... Or they compete with men.... Or both at the same time....

Idk about you, but I grew up in MN where hockey is huge. Still, girls hockey lagged and through middle school tons of girls played on boys teams. It was rare, but there were cases of girls in high school on boys teams.

People aren't entitled to playing in a division where they are competitive. They may be on the lower end of players in any given division. That's just how it is.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


Have you seen women skate street?

viewmaster_pi posted...

men and women's street skateboarding is night and day

https://bjsm.bmj.com/content/55/11/577.full?ijkey=yjlCzZVZFRDZzHz&keytype=ref
https://cgscholar.com/bookstore/works/serve_pdf?adv=false&category_id=179&version_id=105444

It is a gotcha because youve spent the whole thread arguing against trans in cis women sports, then all of a sudden do in another post.

Second it's plain as day that you don't give two fucks about trans people when you say that because a few have won in women's competition, she shouldn't be there, yet they should then be aloud in Men's where they will be no competition against pure male athletes.

Lady is just mad that second place prize was just another skateboard

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/3/6/6/AAcyqcAADQV2.jpg

TommyG663513 posted...

You clearly do have very strong beliefs despite you denying that.

Maybe just maybe you're interpreting way more negativity than there actually is and perhaps you should stop interpreting the worst in others.

I don't have strong beliefs. I hate people being wrong. Those are different things. It's no different than the anti-vax misinformation. I don't hate that people have different opinions. I hate that they are aggressively wrong, proudly ignorant and void of logic. I've seen people accuse me, here or IRL, of having a different opinion when they disagree with something that I personally experience and have knowledge of. I've never found it admirable for people to be steadfast in their beliefs, since that just means they will be resistant to reality.

TommyG663513 posted...

They compete with women.... Or they compete with men.... Or both at the same time....

Idk about you, but I grew up in MN where hockey is huge. Still, girls hockey lagged and through middle school tons of girls played on boys teams. It was rare, but there were cases of girls in high school on boys teams.

People aren't entitled to playing in a division where they are competitive. They may be on the lower end of players in any given division. That's just how it is.

Shouldn't we not have any divisions by this logic then? Since no one has a right to fairness? Doesn't that make this entire topic moot? You seem to be swerving between all lanes.

WhitGameR44 posted...

It is a gotcha because youve spent the whole thread arguing against trans in cis women sports, then all of a sudden do in another post.

Second it's plain as day that you don't give two fucks about trans people when you say that because a few have won in women's competition, she shouldn't be there, yet they should then be aloud in Men's where they will be no competition against pure male athletes.

I only read your first paragraph and I'm not reading anymore. You said I spent the whole topic arguing against trans women in cis women sports.

That simply isn't true and is just a bad straw man argument.

Deutschenlied posted...

Shouldn't we not have any divisions by this logic then? Since no one has a right to fairness? Doesn't that make this entire topic moot? You seem to be swerving between all lanes.

No we make divisions where we can and we make exceptions to accommodate as many as we can.

Again, you're always doing that black and white thing.

Deutschenlied posted...

I don't have strong beliefs. I hate people being wrong. Those are different things. It's no different than the anti-vax misinformation. I don't hate that people have different opinions. I hate that they are aggressively wrong, proudly ignorant and void of logic. I've seen people accuse me, here or IRL, of having a different opinion when they disagree with something that I personally experience and have knowledge of. I've never found it admirable for people to be steadfast in their beliefs, since that just means they will be resistant to reality.

Ok. You keep making weird slippery slope arguments and ad hominems and straw men. Good luck with that

TommyG663513 posted...

I only read your first paragraph and I'm not reading anymore. You said I spent the whole topic arguing against trans women in cis women sports.

That simply isn't true and is just a bad straw man argument.

Oh so I call you out and you now don't wanna spit your nonsense anymore.

LOL

This is a non story. First off, it's only three competitions where she competed with a trans competitor. Place 2nd in two of them. Didn't read the whole article because the rest is irrelevant. This is way too small of a sample size. Unless someone wants to find and post the results of every competition that a trans competitor played in, then you are more the welcome to look into a possible advantage(hint there isn't one).

This is just a case of her just not being good enough for first.

DespondentDeity posted...

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/2/0/9/AAP2ssAADQTZ.jpg

Taylor on the left, Lilian in the center

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/3/7/2/AAfJppAADQV8.jpg

I made them all equal and she still lost.. hope everyone is happy now

RedLuigi posted...

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/3/7/2/AAfJppAADQV8.jpg

I made them all equal and she still lost.. hope everyone is happy now

Lmfao perfect

YookaLaylee posted...

Tony Hawk is like 63

But he's a stick. And also one guy.

CanuckCowboy posted...

But he's a stick. And also one guy.

Yeah, one guy. But nobody thinks he even looks like that when they see him. He's an enigma, haunted to never be recognized in person.

WhitGameR44 posted...

Oh so I call you out and you now don't wanna spit your nonsense anymore.

LOL

You didn't call me out. You formed a straw man argument about things I never said.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

Exactly this. Estrogen can also mess with your body fat, both how much of it and where it's stored. So it's basically the opposite of what TommyG posted, which is frankly shocking to me

gunplagirl posted...

Yeah, one guy. But nobody thinks he even looks like that when they see him. He's an enigma, haunted to never be recognized in person.

His tweets abiut that shit crack me the fuck up.

RedLuigi posted...

I made them all equal and she still lost.. hope everyone is happy now

Reminds me of the equality vs. equity graphic.

Fair, next.

Background_Guy posted...

She's whining about the masculine advantage of someone a foot shorter than her and much lighter lmao

Eh, thats not the Gotcha some people think it is. Taylor (cis athlete) could argue that she is bigger, yet still not as physically capable as Lilian (trans athlete). Anecdotally, I have literally never met a cis woman who was stronger than me, regardless of how much taller or heavier they were.

Edit: I wonder if there is something else going on, as in some other inherent advantage if any exist.

Lorenzo_2003 posted...

Eh, thats not the Gotcha some people think it is. Taylor (cis athlete) could argue that she is bigger, yet still not as physically capable as Lilian (trans athlete). Anecdotally, I have literally never met a cis woman who was stronger than me, regardless of how much taller or heavier they were.

Edit: I wonder if there is something else going on, as in some other inherent advantage if any exist.

Its not a gotcha, its a fact. There are two studies linked in this topic that demonstrate that your theory about some inherent advantage is false, if youd like to educate yourself. I mean, to even think that you could possibly try to give validity to your anti-trans views based on an anecdote about having never met a woman stronger than you, like, OK? how many women is that, and how did you prove that they were all weaker than you? Is this data available for peer review? And you generated another data set to prove that trans women were as strong as you still even if they have Lilians stats? Is that something thats important to you? To be stronger than every woman?

Its just, you look like such a fucking clown right now because most people already agreed that in at least this specific situation, Taylor is just being a bully because shes upset about not placing first at those three competitions. Including the expert skateboarder boys who all mysteriously stopped arguing that the trans persons hidden advantages made the competition unfair as soon as the photo was posted.

How does it not bother you to have to post the most dim, unoriginal takes to be in the anti-trans position?

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/7/2/6/AAOCcDAADQbe.jpg
to her insta post