Current Events > There really needs to be better end of life processes in place. Trigger Warning.

(+) Yeah! (+)

My wives dad has cancer and we went to see him this afternoon and its so heartbreakingly painful to watch someone in his last days gasping for air and gurgling due to fluid on the lung. Its awful for the person dying and also awful for the loved ones who have to watch them suffer. Also lost my grandad over Christmas to pneumonia / asbestosis and that was awful long winded and painful way to watch someone go. There really does need to be a conversation on more humane end of life care.

I literally cant believe anyone who has ever actually gone through watching their loved ones dying like this think that some sort of assisted suicide / speeding up the process isnt the more humane option.

I completely get the argument against that has concerns about people being raked into it or only doing so because they feel guilty for people caring for them but for cases where people are legitimately days or weeks from death and in awful pain I dont think that applies.

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Hospice really can only do so much and depending on what is the illness might not be able to actually make them as comfortable as you'd hope... I know personally of one case and it is heartbreaking.

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yes he is but theres only so much you can go when your lungs are slowly filling with liquid and you suffocate to death over a number of days.

have you ever had any experience with someone on hospice? Whats your story bro?

Error1355 posted...

Hospice really can only do so much and depending on what is the illness might not be able to actually make them as comfortable as you'd hope... I know personally of one case and it is heartbreaking.

To us this was always something someone else goes through and we always assumed wed never be lucky enough to have to witness it ourselves. But here we areoh mate of 20 years died a few weeks ago from cancer as well but luckily (feels fucked up to say that tbh) he didnt suffer for long as it was incredibly aggressive.

edit: sorry you have experience with this as well. I think its hard to relate until you have actually gone through it yourself so if theres one fucked up good thing to come from this its that I can at least empathise and be more compassionate for people in the same situation than I would have been six months ago.

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Ah what disease? I must admit Im slightly morbidly curious. I know there is a lot of bad shit out there but Ive always had a fear of fatal familial insomnia since I saw a documentary on it a few years back.

If you dont mind me asking how the hell do you avoid getting compassion fatigue? My sister worked in hospice but had to leave after a number of years as it was messing up her mental health.

Respect for sticking at it for so long and apologies it took a toll on your mental health.. Im glad there is more focus on self care but I cant imagine any job like this is ever going to leave you without some sort of emotional scars so I respect anyone for sticking to it for so long.

Appreciate the posts man

Australia just legalized euthanasia.
You do have to be an auzie citizen tho. No death tourism.

I have to agree that sometimes, euthanasia is best for everyone involved.

Unfortunately, this is one of those instances where the "pro-life" crowd rears its head.

I watched my dad die last September. The only thing they did for him was pump him full of morphine. I know he wasn't in pain anymore but yeah that shit is just horrifying to watch.

Solar_Crimson posted...

Unfortunately, this is one of those instances where the "pro-life" crowd rears its head.

As they should to be fair and I say this as a pro assisted suicide person. There are a lot of good points that need to be addressed like how to avoid family members being pressured into it or people only doing it because they feel like a burden. Also how it would potentially affect things like insurance and the like.

Lukey_Bug posted...

I watched my dad die last September. The only thing they did for him was pump him full of morphine. I know he wasn't in pain anymore but yeah that shit is just horrifying to watch.

sorry bro but thanks for sharing.

Solar_Crimson posted...

this is one of those instances where the "pro-life" crowd rears its head.

they prefer misery on others FML.
because the bible tells them that.

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sounds better than what Ive seen recently.

Its one if the things that bugs me. Its the one way I dont want to die but the way that I am going to. One lung has already started to collapse so its just a matter of time.

To think its cuz of kidney cancer. Shrug

euthanasia in a controlled environment should just be legal and freely accessible everywhere so that people don't endanger or inconvenience others with suicides. switzerland (?) was developing a pod that you could just hop into and pull the metaphorical trigger yourself, so you could grab a beer after work one day, be like "yeah, i'm done" and then excuse yourself without making a mess

Yeah euthanasia should be legal. Pallative care can only do so much.

My dad who passed this year, on his last day was on morphine, able bodied, but consciously he was so in and out because I think his body was compensating for his lactic acidosis. Coughing and tried getting out of bed, could talk and recognize people, etc. If I wasn't aware of his condition, I would've thought he was absolutely delirious, but he actually was still there. It's just being in and out of sleep so frequently (every 2 minutes?) made it difficult for him to comprehend exactly where he was at.
Before this, he told me he was never in any kind of pain.

The next day we got the call that he passed. I could only wonder what happened the ~24 hours in between and whether or not things actually escalated or just prolonged; but I know the last time I saw him, I wouldn't have asked for any deliberate measures. That seemed too deliberate in taking away life.

That's the tough thing about this. Someone could technically be in an awful state, but they could be numb to it, their mind is on who knows what, but you'd be taking away their last glimpses of being alive and seeing conscious world around them. The last bit of daylight and sound. You take that away, there's instantly no going back/returning it.

By all means if someone adamantly wants to go, I think they should be allowed to, but I do think you have to think about that decision from a raw life point of view, not a social/political/ethical point of view. Like a week before this, my dad did ask the palliative care team he wanted to go, and that sounded too-in-the-moment. Evidently the extra week let him make peace with a lot of things.

I appreciate everyone being so open with their experiences. I find it quite cathartic to realise we arent alone. In trying to get to grips with it all I do wonder if the suffering isnt for the dying its for us so that when they do finally go we are left behind relieved its finally over. I did say to my wife why she wasnt as upset as I thought and she said in her head shed literally seen her dad die a million times over the previous six months and that shes already done her mourning during that time. I know Im being clumsy with my words here so apologies its just stream of consciousness at this point.

Yeah I wouldn't want to live like that

This is one reason I support euthanasia.

It's insane to me that we can look at a person die a prolonged death of a cause they will never recover from, even as they tell everyone around them that they don't want to die as a decrepit husk with no control over their bodies or minds, and go "iT's A sLiPpErY sLoPe!! SaNcTiTy Of LiFe!!!".

Better end of life care? Agree completely. Not going to happen while we keep nurses and other healthcare professionals on minimum wage, but it's an admirable ideal. One day, we're all going to die. Wouldn't we want the best care as we face the total shutdown of our elderly bodies and our own impending brain-death? Or shit, if we were going to die in agonizing pain, wouldn't you want the best standard of care to deliver you from that?

But that goes hand in hand with euthanasia. Because it's one thing to face death with humble dignity. It's another to die a degrading death robbed of dignity from a disease you begged your family not to let you die from. It's torture. Watching a person shit themselves in bed until they die, when they told you time and time again that they would genuinely rather be dead before reaching that point - it's fucking harrowing to think about.

We need better end of life care. But we also need to respect the wishes and rights of those who are about to lose all bodily autonomy, and see that fate as a worse alternative to death.