Current Events > You either support gun ownership, with the understanding things like this

(+) Yeah! (+)

Dragon239 posted...

TC sounds like he just wants to win "argument points" in his head so he can continue to paint those who want private gun ownership as immoral or something.

Sounds like it.

Seems like his stance is "The only way to stop people from getting into car accidents is to make owning a car illegal."

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

What does that have to do with passing a mental background check?

We're talking mental background checks, not criminal. There already are laws in place that prevent convicted felons from owning firearms.

Other countries that have similar or more access to guns dont have our chronic mass shooting problem. Our problem is cultural.

bigblu89 posted...

Jesus Christ, 100% THIS.

This idea of "Either fix it 100% or don't fix it at all" is an asinine stance to take.

i mean, it's the same stance all the chuds took on the covid vaccines. it's just how they operate, and it's disingenuous as fuck and they don't even care.

bigblu89 posted...

What does that have to do with passing or failing mental background check?

Yeah I have no idea. I think I was just on a roll with my other post and posting for the sake of it by that point .

bigblu89 posted...

What does that have to do with passing a mental background check?

We're talking mental background checks, not criminal. There already are laws in place that prevent convicted felons from owning firearms.

What is a mental background check? Does it work if nothing was diagnosed?

SparkClark posted...

Other countries that have similar or more access to guns dont have our chronic mass shooting problem. Our problem is cultural.

That is part of the issue as well and why its going to be an generational issue. Cultures dont change overnight.

SergeantGander posted...

That's a huge issue and I get that.

I think the problem is there are many on the left, spouting TC's rhetoric. Then there are many on the right that think any sort of reform means all their guns are gone forever.

Now as politicians who represent those people and want to get elected again it gets pretty tricky to come together on a bill that will garner bipartisan support to get approved, without jeopardizing their seat. While I certainly think long term reform is more important than any one politicians job, try convincing them all of that.

The polarization on the issue has made it so common sense reform gets shot down by both sides before it can even really be discussed. I wish I had a solution, but I just don't know...

Is it polarization, or is it one side being fed propaganda with no basis in reality?

People still think the powers that be give a shit about finding a middle ground?

RetsuZaiZen posted...

People still think the powers that be give a shit about finding a middle ground?

Thats why its a generational issue. Also if you do genuinely believe there is no solution why even comment?

SHRlKE posted...

Thats why its a generational issue. Also if you do genuinely believe there is no solution why even comment?

Open forum. I have an active account. Anything else?

Intro2Logic posted...

Is it polarization, or is it one side being fed propaganda with no basis in reality?

Which side would you guess TC is on? He seems very capable of having a well thought out discussion about the issue.

RetsuZaiZen posted...

Open forum. I have an active account. Anything else?

lol

SergeantGander posted...

Which side would you guess TC is on? He seems very capable of having a well thought out discussion about the issue.

I can't imagine he thinks outright banning will work, limitations on ownership won't work, extensive background checks won't work...

Even hypotheticals that appeal to emotions won't work. And I'm talking about dark stuff. Hell, I had a conversation with my sister yesterday about it. I really don't think that these politicians would change course were it their own kids that perished. They're far too entrenched.

So I'm at a loss.

Other countries have guns and dont have anywhere near the amount of mass shootings that the US does

Open up NICS as a public utility that anyone can use, then place significant criminal liabilities on anyone who hands over a gun to a felon or lunatic.

Furthermore, what about the NRA's tax exempt status? What necessary public service do they provide?

RetsuZaiZen posted...

Furthermore, what about the NRA's tax exempt status?

503c needs to be reexamined, as a concept.

BeantownHero posted...

Thats just it

There is no "however"

If you're in favor of mass private ownership of guns, THIS IS THE TRADE OFF YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE TO BE WILLING TO ACCEPT

I don't get how people don't understand this. This is a shot at both Gun owners who won't own this and progressives who think "common sense refrorm" is anything more than empty platitudes

No dude we can put swat teams in all the schools.... and the movie theaters and the grocery stores and the McDonald's and the parking lots.

Unknown5uspect posted...

What is a mental background check? Does it work if nothing was diagnosed?

Depends on how strict the proposed legislation is.

Could be as strict as anyone on any mood altering medications cannot purchase without a psych evaluation.

Could be a lax as getting you Primarily Doc to sign off on a mental wellness evaluation.

The process of hammering down exactly what should be done is a complicated one, but its better than doing nothing at all.

bigblu89 posted...

Depends on how strict the proposed legislation is.

Could be as strict as anyone on any mood altering medications cannot purchase without a psych evaluation.

Could be a lax as getting you Primarily Doc to sign off on a mental wellness evaluation.

The process of hammering down exactly what should be done is a complicated one, but its better than doing nothing at all.

We'd need an overhaul of our healthcare system as a pre req for that.

Then again, we've needed an overhaul of our healthcare system for a long time.

At the same time that builds a stigma against anyone with a mental illness. It's essentially saying that everyone with a mental illness is a ticking time bomb and that opens the path to discrimination.

My friend's dad goes to a local bar near his home in Texas to buy stolen guns for a great discount. It's kind of amazing how easy it is to get a stolen firearm, let alone the fact I can walk into academy, get a background check going, and pick up a firearm a few days later without issue. And carry it around with me in most places.

The love of guns makes regulation difficult. Americans don't seem to respect prohibition laws they don't agree with, and firearm/ammunition manufacturers certainly want to avoid any regulations for sales reasons. With how accessible "off the books" guns are, and how passionate people are about guns, it seems like a lot of people would simply begin to purchase weapons from illegal markets. Even now, I'm aware of home made suppressor kits you can order from alibaba because it takes nearly a year to buy one legally. On libertarian social media, you can see how much certain people love the idea of 3D printed guns for the masses, and as a way to bypass regulations.

It's difficult to imagine gun culture becoming weaker in our life time. These mass shootings only seem to strengthen people's already existing convictions. But who can say?

BeantownHero posted...

I have yet to hear a practical middle ground that would garner bipartisan support

You never will hear a solution with bipartisan support, because one side has literally made it their mission to be against anything that the other will possibly suggest.

Unless it's giving more money to the rich.

Unknown5uspect posted...

We'd need an overhaul of our healthcare system as a pre req for that.

Then again, we've needed an overhaul of our healthcare system for a long time.

Didnt say it was a solution that would happen overnight. But the fact that we cant even get something like this to the Senate floor to even be read is a travesty.

bigblu89 posted...

Sounds like it.

Seems like his stance is "The only way to stop people from getting into car accidents is to make owning a car illegal."

I know lots of people will die as a result of private vehicle ownership. I find the tradeoff, while saddening, to be acceptable. For many reasons

That does not apply to guns, for me anyway

Atralis posted...

No dude we can put swat teams in all the schools.... and the movie theaters and the grocery stores and the McDonald's and the parking lots.

bring back swords

Strider102 posted...

At the same time that builds a stigma against anyone with a mental illness. It's essentially saying that everyone with a mental illness is a ticking time bomb and that opens the path to discrimination.

No it doesnt, because there varying stages of mental illness.

Thats like saying anyone that has gotten into the slightest problem with the law, something as small as a parking ticket has to carry around the stigma of being a criminal.

BeantownHero posted...

I know lots of people will die as a result of private vehicle ownership. I find the tradeoff, while saddening, to be acceptable. For many reasons

That does not apply to guns, for me anyway

At this point, it has to. Because no matter what, theyre not going away.

Best we can do at this point is figure out a way to live with the issue as safely as possible.

Thats just reality

bigblu89 posted...

Best we can do at this point is figure out a way to live with the issue as safely as possible.

Guns and Covid.

Seems like America's legacy is lying on its back and letting terrible things happen.

bigblu89 posted...

No it doesnt, because there varying stages of mental illness.

I'm not a therapist so it isn't up to me to say who should/shouldn't have a gun.

Currently, if you own a gun and someone files a PFA (protection from abuse) against you then the courts can order you to turn your guns in. I think a similar strategy could be applied to mental health diagnoses. If someone is suffering from depression/suicidal tendencies, taking away their guns for a time would/could be beneficial.

The most commonly-held position among Republicans is "we will kill you if you try to do anything about this."

https://twitter.com/VoteRandyFine/status/1529427654839046144

Intro2Logic posted...

The most commonly-held position among Republicans is "we will kill you if you try to do anything about this."

https://twitter.com/VoteRandyFine/status/1529427654839046144

what a fucking piece of shit

yeah, wanting to actually do something meaningful to make it not as ridiculous easy as it is for kids to be able to shoot up kids is "government tyranny"

Jabodie posted...

My friend's dad goes to a local bar near his home in Texas to buy stolen guns for a great discount. It's kind of amazing how easy it is to get a stolen firearm, let alone the fact I can walk into academy, get a background check going, and pick up a firearm a few days later without issue. And carry it around with me in most places.

The love of guns makes regulation difficult. Americans don't seem to respect prohibition laws they don't agree with, and firearm/ammunition manufacturers certainly want to avoid any regulations for sales reasons. With how accessible "off the books" guns are, and how passionate people are about guns, it seems like a lot of people would simply begin to purchase weapons from illegal markets. Even now, I'm aware of home made suppressor kits you can order from alibaba because it takes nearly a year to buy one legally. On libertarian social media, you can see how much certain people love the idea of 3D printed guns for the masses, and as a way to bypass regulations.

It's difficult to imagine gun culture becoming weaker in our life time. These mass shootings only seem to strengthen people's already existing convictions. But who can say?

The Gun Loving Culture is so deep rooted into American society that it will never go away now. Our country was founded on a principle regarding gun ownership, even though it's outdated as fuck. It isn't just a Conservative/Republican thing either, I know plenty of Democrats/Liberals that absolutely love owning guns as well. Hell, I know a client who has your SJW stereotypes like typical blue hair, hair shaved on the side, overweight, nose and ears piercing, and is trans and even they make articles saying why gun control is actually sexist and racist.

We know the issue, but I don't think there will ever be a resolution for it.

SergeantGander posted...

I'm not a therapist so it isn't up to me to say who should/shouldn't have a gun.

Currently, if you own a gun and someone files a PFA (protection from abuse) against you then the courts can order you to turn your guns in. I think a similar strategy could be applied to mental health diagnoses. If someone is suffering from depression/suicidal tendencies, taking away their guns for a time would/could be beneficial.

Exactly.

Would it stop what happened yesterday? Maybe not.

Could it possibly stop the next one from happening? Maybe.

I can live with a Maybe.

RetsuZaiZen posted...

Open forum. I have an active account. Anything else?

so literally just because you feel the need to say something. Fair enough.

bigblu89 posted...

At this point, it has to. Because no matter what, theyre not going away.

Best we can do at this point is figure out a way to live with the issue as safely as possible.

Thats just reality

The sense of futility here comes from the fact that the opposition to gun legislation is united in a very simple goal: resist regulation and remove currently existing ones if possible. This is an easy goal to rally behind, and an easy one to implement.

Meanwhile, amongst people think that some gun laws should be passed, there seems to be no consensus on what would actually be effective. Laws that are currently in place seem ineffective, and the opposition will always work to make what has passed as toothless as possible. Whether that's lax enforcement, loopholes built into compromises, or whatever else.

I'm not convinced a productive conversation on regulations can happen until many in the anti regulation faction change their mind. And that's partly because they would be some of the most knowledgeable people on firearms, and also because I don't think they would respect the laws if they weren't a big part of designing them. But I don't see why the latest batch of murdered children/people would change their mind when the two or three didn't. And I don't see why the next two or three batches will either changing minds either. Mass shootings seem to entrench people into their already existing positions these days.

Umbreon posted...

Guns and Covid.

Seems like America's legacy is lying on its back and letting terrible things happen.

learning to live with it does have a wide range it doesnt mean do nothing it also doesnt mean ban all guns. It basically means meeting in the middle. And to be fair at this stage Id take anything over the current trend of doing nothing.

AltyMcAltface posted...

some freedoms shouldn't be

This is what Americans cant wrap their heads around.

We are living off a century old piece of paper written for a totally different group of people.

Congratulations United States of America.

School shooting World Champions 2022.

Another consecutive victory.

Yeehaaa

kurdt032 posted...

Congratulations United States of America.

School shooting World Champions 2022.

School shootings in 'Murica! are older than the US itself.
https://tennisonlong.substack.com/p/pontiac-rebellion-school-massacre

https://twitter.com/HeerJeet/status/1529503559548604422?t=bIP6VyVRvl036MclrzixBw&s=19