Board 8 > Star Wars and Pokemon Mafia Topic 13 - The Last Topic

(+) Yeah! (+)

Lopen is going to be voting a lot of town Chris if he thought day 1 was my scum meta geesh

What a fucking game. Gg Chris, han I'm concerned about you, and very wp kirby and ctes (no longer lurker).

You were very passive about actually generating pressure on people with votes and arguments I felt. Maybe I've been playing too many games with "no cares Chris" but I associate your town play with rapidly trying to push vote trains and suspicions to generate reads.

Felt like you were letting things stay stagnant a lot. But means nothing as I didn't push it all in game and no one else thought so so maybe broken clock here.

Lopen posted...

You were very passive about actually generating pressure on people with votes I felt. Maybe I've been playing too many games with "no cares Chris" but I associate your town play with rapidly trying to push vote trains and suspicions to generate reads.

Felt like you were letting things stay stagnant a lot. But means nothing as I didn't push it all in game and no one else thought so so maybe broken clock here.

Yeah but look at the results I got day 1. Knew 2 scum and shot a third. This is for sure my most pure townsiding form. At least early! No fucks Chris is lazier. I was asking a lot of questions.

Yeah no doubt you got results but I just think as town you're a bit more cavalier about pushing. My read was you were trying to not shake the boat too much with the lynch the first two days. I had Ben/You as a scum/scum gambit and hb as SK for a while lol.

But I think because I'm the only one who got pinged it's probably not anything to think too hard about. Broken clocks as I said.

Tbh I was thinking of you saying I am not good at finding scum when I was dunking on them. I wish I had been town :(

That probably also played into it. I'm one of the only players here who thinks yourvscum hunting is merely average and so if you catch a scum I'm more likely to think it a bus than most people here

Definitely shut me up though serial killer scum hunting is just as good as town scum hunting in my books. I might have to move you up to above-average!

An honor. This was the ultimate chip in my shoulder game and if I had been town I would have died night 3 after 3 scum lynches. A kinder fate than what I had for town. Alas

DoomTheGyarados posted...

An honor. This was the ultimate chip in my shoulder game and if I had been town I would have died night 3 after 3 scum lynches. A kinder fate than what I had for town. Alas

Post game and Chris still thinks I'm scum :/

changmas posted...

Post game and Chris still thinks I'm scum :/

Lmao nah. It is just I would have murdered Lea day 3 if I wasn't being selfish with my BP buddy. I let Lea go because it was in my best interest.

Oh and small detail that didn't matter. Ben claimed off my safelist day 2 lol

I hope that the one he claimed off your safe list was the Pokemon having his ability with no safelist Rey is kinda unfair

Yeah it was luxray

Reyquaza was the way to go with a Rey role anyway

Completely agree.

I have quite a lot of reflections on my own game, but first of all, massive ggs to Chris. The BP shot was dumb luck, everything else was skill.

I'm very disappointed with my own play, for obvious reasons. I think I was both a bit arrogant and not confident enough in my own play in different ways: I was bigging myself up and thought I could get away without heavy bussing (which had been been my historic and successful strategy as scum, many years ago), while also not actually being comfortable making my typical type of posts. It was made worse by the fact I could feel myself making every single mistake that Chris and others pointed out, but couldn't think of a way to get around them while still posting with my own voice. Aside from the Ben one, cause that was just a blunder. I definitely need to sort my scum game out cause that was frankly embarrassing. I think I could have survived longer if Chris wasn't there, and Chris obviously orbitally nuked me, which won't happen in most games. That said... I also should not be a bad enough player that being scum means Chris can easily clock me D1 with little resistance and I pretty much doom multiple teammates.

Okay, little rant about myself over. I don't think anyone else actually played particularly badly! Chang definitely could have done better and Ben didn't have a great game, but that was caused by me flailing out and grabbing his ankle as I drowned and a Chris-shaped nuke, so no massive fault of his own. I will also begrudge IGCD for saving the SK N1.

I think Arti played pretty well for someone subbing in with such an awkward claim, and same with Ctes. Lea survived so long with a helping hand from Chris, but she did a great job recovering from the first two days, so major props there. Same for Isquen, who played a solid first scum game before getting caught out by a scan, and I think Death had a really strong game, and was probably the scariest town player in the midgame in terms of analysis. Chris is obviously the MVP, but HB is second, for catching out two scum and more generally looking like the towniest town that ever towned. If anyone else had counterclaimed me D1 I might have had more confidence to fight them on it, but that shook me more than it shoulda.

I think the setup could have been very swingy given how the roles pan out, especially if Chris had killed anyone at all before Scum died. That said, I can't imagine anyone balancing it much better. Han ran this impeccably, and the concept itself was really creative. Major props and thanks for putting this together:)

I said after I died I was gonna take a mafia break, to figure out how the fuck to play scum or something. However, I have decided that I am antsy and a month's break is more than enough. Next scum game I shall blunder and get myself killed D2 instead, and that's a promise.

Sheep you're good people. Sorry that it had to be you, bud.

Yeah I'll go down in a blaze of shame with you any time

.... won't happen next time though!

DoomTheGyarados posted...

Oh and small detail that didn't matter. Ben claimed off my safelist day 2 lol

Did scum have the same safelist?

If so, oof

Aecioo posted...

Did scum have the same safelist?

If so, oof

Scum had a massive safelist posted in their Discord. But for Pokmon side, the safelist was:

Cynthia
Misty
Brock
National Dex 10-27
National Dex 209-282
National Dex 350-386
Every single Gen VII
Every single Gen VIII Pokemon
Every single Gen IX Pokemon

Luxray is... *drum roll* National Dex #405!
So Ben blundered there with his flavor

Huh. Well I figured no one in town would actually have Luxray. Another safelist existing I didn't even think about. I guess that explains why Chris asked me if I was sure I was sticking with that claim.

And for anyone curious, Rayquaza is National Dex #384.

So Ben really dropped the ball on that fake claim. Not that he would've made it out alive from D2 anyway.

Don't blame Ben for that one, I pushed most of the scum portmanteaus before I started going heavy into "oh, is this actually safe, or nah? There's 900 of them it's fiiiine."

Landorus isn't on there either, nor was Cara Liss which I was also entertaining. (Ralts was, though, for Admiralts Ackbar, and I'm kinda sad Lea talked me out of it even if it was the correct thing to do.)

Why did NO one else bring up that Boba Fett was villainous, though? Recent media be damned, even if it's what threw shade Kirby's way afterwards.

EDIT: and yes, I had brought up "Kyle Kartana" in case Pokemon were going to be in play at one point, but whoever fakeclaimed it died pretty immediately.

Isquen posted...

Recent media be damned, even if it's what threw shade Kirby's way afterwards.

There was a lot of Mandalorian stuff in the flavor. I actually expected Boba to be town.

Anakin being town would be a good flavor trap if town had a star wars flavor cop

didn't expect to play in the first place, ended up playing anyway for the first time in four years, and got handed a role meta trap while my predecessor was suspected for making an obvious joke claim

though I guess I finally did get that mafia itch settled. probably won't sign up again for a while, mafia takes up too much free time when I don't have much in the first place. thanks for the game Han

DoomTheGyarados posted...

This was very hard. Even if everything red says is right he has 20 years of experience.

20 years of experience should also make you able to tell things change when people has 3 days of experience. Even so, I would have loved a final day of someone trying to convince me something that requires these conditionals, obviously you don't have to find them all. At the point red died it had already required bodyguard protection, protection through own role, Chris hitting Bulletproof night 1 and not having kills on opposite nights. Things got way more circumstantial after that. This was never the simple solution. It was nice seeing Corrik explain how ridiculous this way right away, perfectly logical, more people should have realized there.

Plum is right we didn't need to think SK but could figure out he was scum to the same result. This straight up requires me to be wrong about things I had actually correctly figured out and have some dumb luck.

ctesjbuvf posted...

Also, I felt really sorry for when we PoE'd Mzero lol. He felt genuinely tired of that happening at that point, I fully believed that was demotivating.

you would think I would be a prime scan target but I literally never get scanned lol

To be fair, you did still the scan that was on you, but yeah, I remember you saying that and I agreed.

That should say steal and not still.

The key was not to know Chris was scum but to townclear each other I think

Kirby's role didn't fit on scumteam given the flips and ctes was inno scanned when godfather flipped and two godfathers is just not common

Chris on the other hand didn't really have any town clears besides playing well which I mean he can easily do that as scum. I agree that believing SK exists is a bit of a stretch given no extra kills (less so when scumteam tells you it exists and one flips bulletproof) but yeah.

Also didn't red claim roleblocked repeatedly and it not get resolved ever. Obviously he was lying but there could have been scum roleblocker left if he was telling the truth.

But yeah Im not saying Chris didn't play well but I do think he clearly looked the worst of the final 3 (just based on stuff he couldn't control) but in the end it wasn't an embarrassing defeat or anything. Just something to learn from.

red wasn't lying. lea's pokemon role roleblocked anyone that targeted her

Oh OK.

Well either way Lea's role should have been enough to know vengeful was a weird one to exist and scarcely resolves anything better than no town shots imo. But yeah Im not saying Chris didn't play well but I do think he was the least town cleared in that last day by a fair margin.

I knew Chris wasn't scum, I was certain about that part. For as much as everyone says Kirby should be cleared by role meta, same role meta prevented Chris from being on Lea's team, on top of it being extremely unlikely to begin with. I could townclear Kirby, but I also had not won. The key here was figuring out it was an independent that could kill.

I was never as certain as it might have sounded, he just said a lot of flawed points, as dead town chat did, but I couldn't make it work. I didn't vote first and was never going to before :59 on the final hour. I tried talking about balance too, but no town member was even responding and even if they did, I doubt I get that push. Perhaps if Chris didn't get to kill constantly in the event of mafia dying, that was too hard to figure out tbh. If no one dies one night, then the chances of figuring this out are way better. Both were cleared and something highly unlikely had to be the case, I knew that much. I could make it work for Kirby, but I couldn't make it work for Chris, which quite frankly, don't say I should have.

That he hits bulletproof right away, is immune to dying at night (turns out BG got him the one night he wasn't), only kills one night so he can hit that bulletproof every time, manages to hit the same target as scum when needed and gets upgraded to later killing every night. You don't get here logically.

On top of that being way more unlikely than what I came up with for Kirby, this even required Ben neighboring him and Scare getting replaced. I know it was said Chris wins faster if he kills Scare, but there is no way he's let off the hook as easily there, puts him in a way bigger position to lose.

If anyone says they would've killed Chris for rule 1 without even thinking logically, then good for you, you would not have won in my place either. I will hear no more of this nonsense. Can't blame Kirby either, the above is way more unlikely than two godfathers too.

If anything, some of the mislynches were dumb, Arti and JC mostly. At that point, just off Lea.

Oh okay, then I meant I knew Chris wasn't on the scumteam. Point still stands.

UltimaterializerX posted...

"Scum" means anything not town aligned. Even a town-aligned independent. KOS all of them.

No it doesn't.

Bulletproof existing doesn't clear Chris from being in the mafia imo. A random meaningless scum bulletproof is a more plausible role trap than double godfather I think.

Also scum gladiator gave scum two extra kills and watch jacks their power up pretty high for a 6 man team. Seems unlikely.

Now I suppose my ability to see Chris exploiting shooting scum bulletproof early to hide the presence of SK might be easier because I did the same the one game I won as SK in FFVII mafia but yeah with scum talking of a SK and scum bulletproof existing in the setup you definitely have to give it some weight. I can't be wholly unbiased because Han spoiled for me there was an SK but if scum mentioned it and the alternative is a 6 man scumteam with full power loadout and 2 extra kills I doubt I'm ruling it out.

Certainly clears him more than Kirby's roles not fitting in there. Gladiator wasn't an extra kill. It was in place of a lynch.

Kirby being there seemes unlikely enough for me to come up with some wild therories too, but the truth would have been at least as wild a theory. I considered SK and it didn't match up with nights at all because of all those things mentioned before I couldn't find an explanation for how it could.

Ctes, you did well replacing in. Thank you for your efforts. Chris himself was PMing me saying that he felt bad because you and Kirby were putting in real good effort on that last day, and felt that you didn't deserve to lose.

I thought that a double Godfather would be logical if it was one for Star Wars, one for Pokmon. Was Isquen godfather for both?

Remember, I don't have half the experience of most of you so what do I know...

Isquen was Godfather for SW, Lea was untargetable for Poke.

Thank you, Han! And once again thank you for letting me in.

We were scanned the same night as godtather was on though.

There was no cop for the pokemonside is my argument

Sir Chris

There's also the fact that Kirby played gladiator in a really unscum kinda way.

But yeah 6 mafia team with hated townie and scum gladiator/watcher on top of the 5 flips you saw seems really imbalanced to me and I think if you're really reading into setups 2 godfathers, scum gladiator, and town vengeful none really make sense but yeah (keep in mind as an observer I thought Kirby was scum for a while. Once many scum flipped though Kirbys role didn't really make sense to fit in the scumteam imo, talking balance). Definitely think Dark Side Chris bussing 4 scum isn't completely out of the question, particularly since doc was killed days ago. Anyway, yeah, I just think it was something to learn from. Once you're that deep in the game setup meta can mean a lot.

Han just likes to punish overthinking
And then we lost due to sideways thinking

I did tgink it was imbalanced! That's why I began thinking of a switch. I wouldn't put it past Chris to bus 4 scum, that's not why I ruled it out, that was setup meta. But now we're back to thinking I should have thought something that wasn't the case.

Well I guess maybe the lesson to learn is if you think it's imbalanced maybe the setup isn't what you think it is

LYLO Rules: Votes are automatically locked in at LYLO. I.e. when the game reaches a point where one more miselimination leads to a loss, you cannot change your vote once you have cast it.

Let's start doing this btw. It's a great rule and no one has to slow roll ever again.