Board 8 > Politics Containment Topic 393: Raid on Bungling Bay

(+) Yeah! (+)

Yesmar_ posted...

I'm sure there's lots of people who went to Harvard who have student loans, but the real issue comes from the next tier(s) down, IIRC. I don't have any first hand experience, but my understanding is that Ivy leagues, and other schools at the top tier are actually very generous with financial aid, because their reputation depends on having the top students, regardless of ability to pay. It's when you get to the schools that don't care (and you don't have to go that far for this, tbqh) that the crisis starts spiraling.

Or at least this was the case a couple years ago.

That's my understanding too. Harvard and the other top schools often have surprisingly high family income cutoffs where if your family makes below that, they don't charge you tuition.

There's also an issue where it really doesn't make a lot of sense nowadays for a rich family to pay for their child's education out of pocket if they can qualify for student loans instead. Like, suppose you are a rich parent deciding whether to write a check for $250k to the college or to your child. Wouldn't you rather give the money to your child and instruct them to take out student loans, pay the minimum they can, and wait for the Democrats to get in office and forgive all the student loans? Even if the loan forgiveness doesn't happen your family has fairly good odds of beating the interest rate with investments.

Peace___Frog posted...

Word on the street is we'll get some information on student loans today. I hope there's more to it than "forgiving $X" because for people who have more than X, they need details on what resumed payments will look like for next week. Loan ownership has changed at least once over the past 2 years for a lot of borrowers, and I'm seeing a lot of confusion in the space.

More details in this thread:

https://twitter.com/JStein_WaPo/status/1562442090084470785

Expected that Pell Grant recipients will receive up to $20k in relief.
Payment moratorium expected to be extended through December 31.
Thanks to a Schumer provision in the Inflation Reduction Act the relief will not be treated as taxable income.

Maybe dumb question, but does this relief count for private loans as well or would it just be public loans that are forgiven?

I'm out of student loan debt and my husband only has private loans left, so I'm not sure if he would qualify or nont.

TotallyNotMI posted...

Maybe dumb question, but does this relief count for private loans as well or would it just be public loans that are forgiven?

I'm out of student loan debt and my husband only has private loans left, so I'm not sure if he would qualify or nont.

My guess is if it is private he wouldn't be part of pell grant

My biggest issue with this is, while yes, I would like $20,000....

I absolutely should not be given a $20,000 check by the government. My AGI last year was $100k. I can make $500 monthly payments.

I feel like this is a stimulus to people who don't need it while also not fixing the system that is going to result in an incoming freshman to load up on debt this fall.

masterplum posted...

My guess is if it is private he wouldn't be part of pell grant

Right, but what about the $10k? Is private included in that?

masterplum posted...

I feel like this is a stimulus to people who don't need it

With the inflation situation we have right now literally nobody should be getting a "stimulus". Hopefully that's not what student loan forgiveness is about.

masterplum posted...

My biggest issue with this is, while yes, I would like $20,000....

I absolutely should not be given a $20,000 check by the government. My AGI last year was $100k. I can make $500 monthly payments.

I would much, much rather people who don't need help get it than people who do need help not receive it. Means testing is bad.

Not_an_Owl posted...

I would much, much rather people who don't need help get it than people who do need help not receive it. Means testing is bad.

and expensive.

masterplum posted...

My biggest issue with this is, while yes, I would like $20,000....

I absolutely should not be given a $20,000 check by the government. My AGI last year was $100k. I can make $500 monthly payments.

I feel like this is a stimulus to people who don't need it while also not fixing the system that is going to result in an incoming freshman to load up on debt this fall.

Sure, but you also didn't get a free $100k from PPP, did you? That was also a stimulus who didn't need it.

Were you still making payments during the pause?

You can argue that $125k is "too high" but that's still pretty solidly middle class.

I'm not personally getting the full $10k because I paid down to less than that before the pause, but I have no problem with other people getting "more" of a benefit than me.

Peace___Frog posted...

Sure, but you also didn't get a free $100k from PPP, did you? That was also a stimulus who didn't need it.

This is a pretty big strawman. Its not one or the other

Sure, but one already happened and the people I've seen raising a stink about student loans have largely been completely content with the free $ given to businesses.

Perhaps some people got both. Many people will get neither.
But saying that you don't need your loans forgiven is so silly to me. If it bothers you that much, feel free to pay them.

Having my loans cancelled would make me jump right into buying a car. EV or Hybrid. Only thing holding me back is anxiety over not having the money if payments pick back up.

TotallyNotMI posted...

Right, but what about the $10k? Is private included in that?

Nothing private is included.

Give more money to people who don't have money? They'll spend it, therefore stimulating the economy.
Give more money to people who have money? They'll save it, therefore accumulating wealth.

Isn't this like.. basic level economics?

I don't think people realize on this issue how good Biden has done compared to what I was expecting. He keeps poking at it and has reduced the total debt a crazy amount lol

Quarterly politics topic post.

We're the results yesterday as good a sign for the Dem midterms as people are spouting about or is it a bunch of wishful thinking?

Aww what, so since I paid my student loans off I don't get anything?

UshiromiyaEva posted...

Quarterly politics topic post.

We're the results yesterday as good a sign for the Dem midterms as people are spouting about or is it a bunch of wishful thinking?

Bad GOP candidates and abortion fervor means the senate is probably staying with the democrats despite Bidens continuing unpopularity and mediocre economy. The house will probably go back to republicans.

Honestly thats the headline for the Quarter.

PerfectChaosZ posted...

Aww what, so since I paid my student loans off I don't get anything?

Someone said if you paid it off during the freeze you get a rebate. Citation needed

SirChris posted...

I don't think people realize on this issue how good Biden has done compared to what I was expecting. He keeps poking at it and has reduced the total debt a crazy amount lol

I hate saying it when stuff like this comes up because I don't want to sound like a Biden stan, but he's done much better than I was expecting most places. Admittedly, my expectations were about as low as possible going into his presidency with 50 D senators (which includes Manchin and Sinema). I thought we were going to get literally 0 on anything.

Obviously this is not what I'd want out of an ideal scenario with a presidential candidate I actually liked somehow winning. He's shaping up to be the best president in my lifetime though, which says a lot more than the other presidents than him but whatever.

UshiromiyaEva posted...

Quarterly politics topic post.

We're the results yesterday as good a sign for the Dem midterms as people are spouting about or is it a bunch of wishful thinking?

It was a sign that at the very least we're not going to see a red wave at the midterms.

They were genuinely good results for the Dems.

https://twitter.com/POTUS/status/1562462774969581570

Biden saying undergrad loan repayment can also be capped at 5% of your discretionary monthly income

Edit: Fixed/Clarified

masterplum posted...

Someone said if you paid it off during the freeze you get a rebate. Citation needed

Oh that would be awesome. My wife might actually get something.

Thorn posted...

https://twitter.com/POTUS/status/1562462774969581570

Biden saying undergrad loan repayment can also be capped at 5% of your monthly income

Discretionary monthly income not monthly income. Big difference.

masterplum posted...

mediocre economy.

wut? i thought i kept reading that the economy is doing extremely well.

swordz9 posted...

Would be nice if they could cancel the outrageous interest rates at least, but best to not expect anything

The plan also states that under the new IDR that it will cover unpaid monthly interest so that as long as monthly payments (even if they are $0) are made the loan balance will not grow.

For lack of a better topic to bring this up, a big reason I mention anti-progressive YouTube randos so much is because I was genuinely amazed by their takes whereas most of the board probably just wrote them off as alt-right pieces of crap ages ago. Whenever I do check on them out of curiosity I just see channels increasingly devoted to opposing wokeness to the point it seems they've gotten into a "He Who Fights Monsters" mindset or something. It seems like the Republican party in general has become like this and it's really unnerving.

Mr_Lasastryke posted...

wut? i thought i kept reading that the economy is doing extremely well.

as I understand it "the economy" is pretty good but all that currently means for us is that the rich are getting richer; still kinda sucks for us normies

AriaOfBolo posted...

as I understand it "the economy" is pretty good but all that currently means for us is that the rich are getting richer; still kinda sucks for us normies

Inflation is crazy right now

masterplum posted...

Inflation is crazy right now

More importantly, inflation hurts everybody. Politically, it'd probably be better to have high unemployment because a lot more people could just ignore that.

https://twitter.com/riegerreport/status/1562520081342406658?s=21&t=3U14rNC6vksNEKsp-NiF0A

Irish Joe spotted

Anybody who says that nobody else should get a break because they didn't isn't a worthwhile enough human being to pay attention to in the first place.

Theres sadly a lot of got mine fuck you types even with regards to student debt. This is probably the most selfish country on Earth with regards to how entitled and rotten everyone feels

Out of curiosity: what evidence other than historical trends is there that the Republicans will win the house? Democrats are ahead in the polls and outperforming 2020 in special elections.

That is not to say that I think Democrats will win necessarily, just wondering if everybody is just looking at the trends. Of course there has never been something like Dobbs before now.

LightningStrikes posted...

Out of curiosity: what evidence other than historical trends is there that the Republicans will win the house? Democrats are ahead in the polls and outperforming 2020 in special elections.

All the gerrymandering they did.

LightningStrikes posted...

Out of curiosity: what evidence other than historical trends is there that the Republicans will win the house? Democrats are ahead in the polls and outperforming 2020 in special elections.

That is not to say that I think Democrats will win necessarily, just wondering if everybody is just looking at the trends. Of course there has never been something like Dobbs before now.

the 2020 redistricting gave a lot of power to Republican legislatures, allowing them to kill off existing democratic districts

UshiromiyaEva posted...

Anybody who says that nobody else should get a break because they didn't isn't a worthwhile enough human being to pay attention to in the first place.

It's not just a matter of some people benefiting and others not being affected at all. Those who don't benefit will in fact be paying for this indirectly through a combination of higher inflation and reduced future government spending (since the debt is a constraint on that). People who went to college (even if there's some token means testing at $125k) are better off than the average American, and those who didn't even go to college will be paying those costs. And then because there's nothing to actually address the cost of college (but is now the expectation that future debt cancellation is a possibility) colleges will very likely increase their tuition further above what they would have already, leaving future college attendees worse off (particularly if they take out loans they otherwise wouldn't have because they gamble on another cancellation that doesn't come to pass).

Another big question is what will happen if the courts find that this is unconstitutional (this broad forgiveness certainly goes beyond the intent of the law he's relying on to do this, and it's a 6-3 court). Would they just say "you weren't supposed to do this and can't in the future, but it would be too disruptive to restore debts"? Or if they ordered the debt restored, would borrowers be on the hook for the additional interest that would have accumulated in the absence of the forgiveness?

LightningStrikes posted...

Out of curiosity: what evidence other than historical trends is there that the Republicans will win the house? Democrats are ahead in the polls and outperforming 2020 in special elections.

That is not to say that I think Democrats will win necessarily, just wondering if everybody is just looking at the trends. Of course there has never been something like Dobbs before now.

Given the shape of the districts, Democrats need to win the national popular vote by several points to win the House. I forget what the breakeven is but it is something like D+5.

LordoftheMorons posted...

It's not just a matter of some people benefiting and others not being affected at all. Those who don't benefit will in fact be paying for this indirectly through a combination of higher inflation and reduced future government spending (since the debt is a constraint on that). People who went to college (even if there's some token means testing at $125k) are better off than the average American, and those who didn't even go to college will be paying those costs. And then because there's nothing to actually address the cost of college (but is now the expectation that future debt cancellation is a possibility) colleges will very likely increase their tuition further above what they would have already, leaving future college attendees worse off (particularly if they take out loans they otherwise wouldn't have because they gamble on another cancellation that doesn't come to pass).

Another big question is what will happen if the courts find that this is unconstitutional (this broad forgiveness certainly goes beyond the intent of the law he's relying on to do this, and it's a 6-3 court). Would they just say "you weren't supposed to do this and can't in the future, but it would be too disruptive to restore debts"? Or if they ordered the debt restored, would borrowers be on the hook for the additional interest that would have accumulated in the absence of the forgiveness?

Do you mean unconstitutional or just illegal under some statute passed by Congress? I mean I've never heard of a creditor being unable to forgive a debt. Perhaps the issue is whether he can forgive without triggering tax consequences for borrowers? Well, hopefully we won't end up with the nightmare world where the courts find that the loan forgiveness is valid but it triggers tax consequences notwithstanding Biden's directive that it not, and that borrowers are on the hook to pay those taxes. That would result in borrowers paying more, not less, in the short run.

LightningStrikes posted...

Out of curiosity: what evidence other than historical trends is there that the Republicans will win the house? Democrats are ahead in the polls and outperforming 2020 in special elections.

That is not to say that I think Democrats will win necessarily, just wondering if everybody is just looking at the trends. Of course there has never been something like Dobbs before now.

They only have a few seat advantage currently, and that would likely be wiped out due to redistricting alone if the environment was the same as in 2020.

red_sox_777 posted...

Do you mean unconstitutional or just illegal under some statute passed by Congress? I mean I've never heard of a creditor being unable to forgive a debt. Perhaps the issue is whether he can forgive without triggering tax consequences for borrowers? Well, hopefully we won't end up with the nightmare world where the courts find that the loan forgiveness is valid but it triggers tax consequences notwithstanding Biden's directive that it not, and that borrowers are on the hook to pay those taxes. That would result in borrowers paying more, not less, in the short run.

I mean that he only has the power to forgive any student loans because of a prior law passed by Congress, and what he just did obviously went beyond the intent of that law. My understanding is that the Obama administration concluded that they were not allowed to use it in this way, and I'd be surprised if the current Supreme Court would find differently.

Re tax consequences, I read that there was a provision in the IRA that made forgiveness untaxed. Since that was an act of Congress it should be on solid ground.

LordoftheMorons posted...

I mean that he only has the power to forgive any student loans because of a prior law passed by Congress, and what he just did obviously went beyond the intent of that law. My understanding is that the Obama administration concluded that they were not allowed to use it in this way, and I'd be surprised if the current Supreme Court would find differently.

Re tax consequences, I read that there was a provision in the IRA that made forgiveness untaxed. Since that was an act of Congress it should be on solid ground.

Oh good to hear they got that in there!

UshiromiyaEva posted...

Anybody who says that nobody else should get a break because they didn't isn't a worthwhile enough human being to pay attention to in the first place.

Turns out one of my coworkers says he and his friends are all pissed because they don't have loans, and they think their taxes are going to go up from this.

I think he should be more worried about his job performance but hey, I'm not his manager.

Suprak_the_Stud posted...

I hate saying it when stuff like this comes up because I don't want to sound like a Biden stan, but he's done much better than I was expecting most places. Admittedly, my expectations were about as low as possible going into his presidency with 50 D senators (which includes Manchin and Sinema). I thought we were going to get literally 0 on anything.

Obviously this is not what I'd want out of an ideal scenario with a presidential candidate I actually liked somehow winning. He's shaping up to be the best president in my lifetime though, which says a lot more than the other presidents than him but whatever.

Dude, just let yourself be happy about this lol

ChaosTonyV4 posted...

https://twitter.com/riegerreport/status/1562520081342406658?s=21&t=3U14rNC6vksNEKsp-NiF0A

Irish Joe spotted

The Republican Party has been saying that is perfectly fair for decades.

red_sox_777 posted...

The Republican Party has been saying that is perfectly fair for decades.

And now the Democrats are saying the same is true for Student Loan forgiveness.

Just like working from home highlights how unfair the system is and has been. We dont need to stuff into a tiny office just to use their inferior computer to our own. We dont need to pay thousands of dollars just to get an education. Its all just fake. I dont blame people for being pissed off but their anger is misplaced.

https://twitter.com/CBSNews/status/1562534534976983045