Current Events > Final Fantasy XVI Developers: "Here's why there are no black people."

(+) Yeah! (+)

Ricemills posted...

man, can't wait for persona 6 and people getting outraged because there's still no black people in the series.

i won't be mad but more annoyed cuz if we can get lisa from persona 2 a mixed japaness as a main party member dealing with her identity issue in a game then why can't they do the same for other mixed japaness people who feel left out like i get if most of the writer ether never met them or don't want to touch it cuz they don't know how to handle it tho

if bridgerton can have black characters and still be in a Victorian setting then anyone can fucking do it

Just say we just like things white. I mean that is better then suggesting all of a Mid Evil Europe was white. I mean the first one would be so better then second one. Don't hide behind history for our bullshit.

Robot2600 posted...

if bridgerton can have black characters and still be in a Victorian setting then anyone can fucking do it

Its a victorian pop setting with no intentions of realism so we just enjoy it for what it is. Also minorities are actors too and need to eat.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


before 5, all of them are on fictional towns. the location didn't exist in real life.
and black people exist in Japan, so morw reason to include them if you argue about real life.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

That's one way to look at it.

Another is that black people do exist in Japan. The Like a Dragon series routinely features black people. Not a lot, and not always in the best light, but enough to be reminded they exist.

Rharyx211 posted...

I mean, on the topic of FF14, this is the same guy who explained why it made sense when Y'shtola started to have lighter skin in later expansions. So I'm not entirely surprised by this.

And people supported them then too.

cjsdowg posted...

And people supported them then too.

But 14 characters come on all sizes and colors

Ricemills posted...

before 5, all of them are on fictional towns. the location didn't exist in real life.
and black people exist in Japan, so morw reason to include them if you argue about real life.

it's still based on japan tho even if the town are fictional and before 3 person did include a mixed japaness main character lisa as a main member of the party tho she was half white it still at least showed they exist and how they have issue dealing with them feeling left out
and persona 2 also showed a gay character in a non crappy stock comedic light as well

JuanCarlos1 posted...

Its a victorian pop setting with no intentions of realism so we just enjoy it for what it is. Also minorities are actors too and need to eat.

unlike the historically accurate and insightful piece of art being produced by square. ok, i see it now.

gikos posted...

it's still based on japan tho even if the town are fictional and before 3 person did include a mixed japaness main character lisa as a main member of the party tho she was half white it still at least showed they exist and how they have issue dealing with them feeling left out
and persona 2 also showed a gay character in a non crappy stock comedic light as well

why deflect away from the topic about black people?

How many of the original six Final Fantasies had minority characters? I never noticed it, but then again I'm a white man. I'm genuinely curious if people have a problem with those games because I don't remember any minority characters, even NPCs.

It seemed VII and on had plenty of minority characters though, a lot essential to the story.

ShotWaifu posted...

How many of the original six Final Fantasies had minority characters? I never noticed it, but then again I'm a white man. I'm genuinely curious if people have a problem with those games because I don't remember any minority characters, even NPCs.

It seemed VII and on had plenty of minority characters though, a lot essential to the story.

Leo from VI

Ricemills posted...

before 5, all of them are on fictional towns. the location didn't exist in real life.
and black people exist in Japan, so morw reason to include them if you argue about real life.

I forget no black men exist in Japan. /s We're like a Unicorn. We just don't exist and have only existed as slaves or criminals! /s

ShotWaifu posted...

How many of the original six Final Fantasies had minority characters? I never noticed it, but then again I'm a white man. I'm genuinely curious if people have a problem with those games because I don't remember any minority characters, even NPCs.

Good question!

In the earliest cases, it was difficult to tell if someone was a minority or minority-coded. For the most part you only had costumes to go by.

For example, it can probably be assumed that Minwu in FF2 is minority-coded due to his dress, but as to what he's based on I'd rather not guess.

From 4, Yang and the rest of Fabul is coded as some time of "martial arts East Asian", while Edge and Eblan similarly but Japanese (further reinforced with the introduction of the Eblan Four in The After Years).

Can't think of any in 1, 3, or 5.

6 had Cyan being partially East Asian coded (samurai with western armor is an eclectic mix).

Balnazarr posted...

I forget no black men exist in Japan. /s We're like a Unicorn. We just don't exist and have only existed as slaves or criminals! /s

Anime and games focused around Japan tend to cast black men as large, muscular and intimidating. They may or may not be antagonists.

Which is why Mack Shinozuka, first introduced in Yakuza 3 and also present in 4 and 5, is a bit of an oddity because he's of relatively slim build and his role is a photographer, if a bit of a silly one.

Of course, our introduction to Mack in Y3 is a bit sus, given Kiryu has been on the tail of (white) foreign secret agents and he runs across (black) Mack and assumes he's also a secret agent and chases him down. It's all sorted out in the end, but it still reads as "Kiryu chasing after evil foreigner".

concept art by Amano:

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/4/0/1/AABHfBAAD2b5.jpg

Ricemills posted...

Leo from VI

I'm having a huge Mandela effect moment right now. I always remembered Leo as white, even when playing the game recently. And now I look him up and he's dark skinned.

What the fuck

Ricemills posted...

why deflect away from the topic about black people?

how am i deflecting if anything i am saying they need to put more mixed japaness people which even you said it your self that are black japaness people in japan in the game but i gave up on it a long time ago cuz the current persona is just not going to tackle that well not the current writers anyway maybe down the line we can hope we got people main characters that aren't just stereotypes
but in the meantime we mostly likely get the good old trope of random transfer studen from aboard who is ether franch or english blonde girl the MC can romance

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/4/0/2/AABHfBAAD2b6.jpg

ShotWaifu posted...

I'm having a huge Mandela effect moment right now. I always remembered Leo as white, even when playing the game recently. And now I look him up and he's dark skinned.

What the fuck

they made the sprite white but the art is all black.

let it be known that he is also clearly wearing yellow lipstick.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

You can see most of Leo's art here at the top of the page.

https://finalfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Leo_Cristophe

The portrait and SNES sprite are a bit at odds with each other and you can see the Pixel Remaster sprite darkened Leo's skin, which was obviously only done a year ago.

CyricZ posted...

Good question!

In the earliest cases, it was difficult to tell if someone was a minority or minority-coded. For the most part you only had costumes to go by.

For example, it can probably be assumed that Minwu in FF2 is minority-coded due to his dress, but as to what he's based on I'd rather not guess.

From 4, Yang and the rest of Fabul is coded as some time of "martial arts East Asian", while Edge and Eblan similarly but Japanese (further reinforced with the introduction of the Eblan Four in The After Years).

Can't think of any in 1, 3, or 5.

6 had Cyan being partially East Asian coded (samurai with western armor is an eclectic mix).

But overall no dark skinned minority characters aside from maybe Minwu? I don't recall any enemies or bosses either.

Okay I just looked up the concept art...

....yikes. I'm sort of glad they made him white, because if they were going for THAT then the game would have been racist as hell.

ShotWaifu posted...

But overall no dark skinned minority characters aside from maybe Minwu? I don't recall any enemies or bosses either.

If we're going straight to dark-skinned, then no, apart from General Leo in art (which didn't translate to his sprite at the time).

Vargas in FFVI was dark-skinned if we're looking at bosses.

ShotWaifu posted...

How many of the original six Final Fantasies had minority characters? I never noticed it, but then again I'm a white man. I'm genuinely curious if people have a problem with those games because I don't remember any minority characters, even NPCs.

It seemed VII and on had plenty of minority characters though, a lot essential to the story.

Besides clearly non human characters...

FFIV had Cecil(Half Lunarian), Yang, Cid, Fusoya(Lunarian) and Golbez(Half Lunarian)

FF VI had Terra / Tina(Half Esper), Cyan, and Leo

Ah Vargas that's right. I think perhaps Raijin from FF8 was inspired a bit by him.

I don't think "light skinned but it turns out they're actually a different race, despite whatever differences they have never playing into the narrative until the reveal happens" is what's being sought here.

Also what's FFIV Cid coded as?

ShotWaifu posted...

I think perhaps Raijin from FF8 was inspired a bit by him.

Totally forgot about him.

CyricZ posted...

I don't think "light skinned but it turns out they're actually a different race, despite whatever differences they have never playing into the narrative until the reveal happens" is what's being sought here.

Also what's FFIV Cid coded as?

Totally forgot about him.

Irish? Idk what he was going for. But that also doesn't change anything.

gikos posted...

how am i deflecting if anything i am saying they need to put more mixed japaness people which even you said it your self that are black japaness people in japan in the game but i gave up on it a long time ago cuz the current persona is just not going to tackle that well not the current writers anyway maybe down the line we can hope we got people main characters that aren't just stereotypes
but in the meantime we mostly likely get the good old trope of random transfer studen from aboard who is ether franch or english blonde girl the MC can romance

yeah but the topic at hand is about black people, not others.
you're welcomed to create another topic about other representations.

To reiterate, Yoshida never once said there were no black people in the game nor that it didn't have diversity, he explained that the region involved is isolated and doesn't reflect the entire world the game it set in. His point was that there may be less than what we'd expect compared to our real world, not that it didn't exist.
You can see PoC in the trailers already so the topic title alone is already worthless.
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/4/1/6/AAZ1peAAD2cI.jpg

Guess this guy doesn't count though? This whole conversation is based off overreactions and misrepresentations. What a dumb controversy.

I mean it's my topic, and I say it's okay to talk about representation in games with regards to any particular race if we want to.

We established very early the use of Asian or Asian-coded characters is a thing in Japanese-made games even if it's established to not necessarily be an Asian setting, so we've set the distinction between that and people of darker skin tone.

Vyrulisse posted...

To reiterate, Yoshida never once said there were no black people in the game nor that it didn't have diversity, he explained that the region involved is isolated and doesn't reflect the entire world the game it set in. His point was that there may be less than what we'd expect compared to our real world, not that it didn't exist.
You can see PoC in the trailers already so the topic title alone is already worthless.
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/4/1/6/AAZ1peAAD2cI.jpg

Guess this guy doesn't count though? This whole conversation is based off overreactions and misrepresentations. What a dumb controversy.

That guy could count, but it's also dark in that shot. Also he is most likely a jobber NPC and not someone with story importance. It's not a dumb controversy. Square Enix only cares about the white and asian demographics and their respresentation for FFXVI and that sucks. Stop trying to downplay this like a bigot would.

Ricemills posted...

yeah but the topic at hand is about black people, not others.
you're welcomed to create another topic about other representations.

and i am joining in with people making it clear why we find this statement about the reason they can't bring in black people in a fantasy story cuz they based it on medievil europe and used the shitty BS that it was pure white back in the day shit cuz bringing in a black person would break muh fantasy realism about a fictional story where people ride giant chickens and dragons and can do magic but nope a black person would be too much it seems to them

I mean, if that were the case, then why didn't Yoshi-P say "but there are black characters, for example, in this trailer".

It's not quite the best lit picture either.

Yeah this guy is a main character. While he has light skin, his facial features are not european white looks more middle eastern. His country is also the desert city. Pretty sure well find some diversity there https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/4/1/7/AAHS2BAAD2cJ.jpg

Funkydog posted...

I wonder how people would react to the fact that medieval Europe had BAME people in it and not just white people.

Wtf is a bame person

once again our main issue we are taking is the statement that his reason why black people can't appear in this is cuz this is based on medieval europe had he said this country which the story is about a closed off country then this would've been a non issue we are calling out the old tired and shitty logic of saying medieval europe didn't have black people or people of color

Black artists, directors dont make enough fantasy and sci fi i intend to change this.

gikos posted...

and i am joining in with people making it clear why we find this statement about the reason they can't bring in black people in a fantasy story cuz they based it on medievil europe and used the shitty BS that it was pure white back in the day shit cuz bringing in a black person would break muh fantasy realism about a fictional story where people ride giant chickens and dragons and can do magic but nope a black person would be too much it seems to them

Facts. Only people who have a issue with others being offended by Square Enix and Yoshi P's discrimination are racist, plain and simple.

JuanCarlos1 posted...

Yeah this guy is a main character. While he has light skin, his facial features are not european white looks more middle eastern. His country is also the desert city. Pretty sure well find some diversity there

Which unfortunately brings us back to "oh I guess this game does have diversity of peoples; they're just all white".

Forest_Temple posted...

Wtf is a bame person

Black Asian and Minority Ethnic.

cjsdowg posted...

Black Asian and Minority Ethnic.

Mostly used in the UK from what I can research. I honestly hadn't heard of it before either.

JuanCarlos1 posted...

Yeah this guy is a main character. While he has light skin, his facial features are not european white looks more middle eastern. His country is also the desert city. Pretty sure well find some diversity there https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/4/1/7/AAHS2BAAD2cJ.jpg

If he is from a desert region why is he so white? More bigoted Square Enix bullshit.