Current Events > Willow has a 25% audience score

(+) Yeah! (+)

Is it really that bad or is it just "reeeeeee the main characters are lesbians"?

I made a topic about the first episode but it purged

It's not a good show

Basically if The CW wrote a high fantasy series it would be Disney+'s Willow series

It is a complete mess from a screenplay and a tone aspect. I do kinda like how it focuses on being light and fun (at least part of the time), but it has serious issues.

Aw, the trailer looked more than 25% too. What a bummer but i am still interested in the series.

how long will Disney continue to just revive old franchies with shitty, low effort reboots instead of producing quality, original content?

as long as they keep making bank

Cotton_Eye_Joe posted...

Is it really that bad or is it just "reeeeeee the main characters are lesbians"?

That's probably a good percentage of it, there is also probably a percentage of "REEEEE THIS MOVIE I LOVED AS A CHILD HAS A SEQUEL WITH MINORITY REPRESENTATION IN IT" but that all aside, it could just not be great in addition to the above.

Oh hey I can still copy/paste what my topic was because I also put it on LUE and it purges slower.

Spoilers for the first episode from this point on

Just finished the first episode and I have several problems.

To start off, let's talk about the worst part. Willow himself is not in the first episode until the last two or three minutes. He's not even name-dropped until more than halfway through.

Our main cast is instead made up of the kids of Madmartigan and Sorsha, and their young friends. It feels like a CW cast and they have the writing to match. Basically the entire first episode consists of them lamenting their various and overdone relationship woes: M&S's daughter, Kit, doesn't want to marry a prince because she doesn't even know him. The prince, Graydon, is boring and doesn't seem to be interested in doing anything at all. Kit's best friend, Jade, is leaving to be trained as a knight but is being not-at-all subtly shown to be in love with Kit. M&S's son, Airk (who I thought was just named "Eric", because that's how everybody pronounces it in the show), is an overly-romantic sex maniac secretly dating a kitchen girl. The kitchen girl is scrappy, independent, and capable, and is also revealed to actually be Elora (the baby from the movie).

I couldn't even really do my usual thing and come up with joke names to refer to these characters are because they're all so copy/paste from literally any young adult fantasy series you've ever seen or read.

Oh and Madmartigan isn't in the series either. Apparently he's not even getting a cameo.

The concept behind the series is that after the events of the movie, despite Bavmorda being killed and the realm being saved, there's immediately a new prophecy that requires them to hide Elora's identity because another BBEG wants to use her to gain power. Or kill her. Or something. I literally don't know.

About halfway through the series the castle is attacked by four henchman villains who wreck everybody's shit and kidnap Airk/Eric. These villains include Big Angry Guy With Head In A Cage, Girl Who Transforms Into A Giant Bird, Blind Guy With Staff Who Teleports, and Man In Metal Mask With Two Big Whips. This scene plays out pretty much like any group fight scene in the MCU and the villains honestly look like rejects from Thanos' army.

After this attack/kidnapping, the rest of the cast announce that they're going to go rescue Airk/Eric, and Sorsha's just like "okay whatever". The only two adults she sends along with them are a guy she's been keeping the dungeon for years, and an old soldier who gets killed by an arrow to the torso about ten minutes into the journey after telling the kids "you have to be vigilant at all times or you won't survive", because irony is the crutch of a hack writer.

But the most egregious thing to me came during the credits. These are literally MCU credits. You get sketch art of the main cast being drawn on screen, while they choose not to play a thematically fitting song from the series itself, but instead... well...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ZNDRSQ9YjU

...that. Exactly the kind of thing I hear in my head when I think about a high fantasy series.

Just... holy fucking shit. What a train wreck of a show.

I'm still going to keep watching out of the vain hope that now that Warwick Davis has shown his face, it might have a chance of improving. But after this first episode I'm not exactly confident in that at all.

Copy/paste over but spoilers continue

I did watch the second episode after the first, and it didn't really make it that much better. Warwick Davis is still a great actor but it doesn't feel like he's playing Willow here. In the movie Willow was a level-headed guy who was the straight man to Madmartigan and the Brownies, but in this show he literally can't stop cracking jokes. He still knows that what he's doing is a very serious thing but that doesn't stop him from being an unnecessary comic relief character in a show that already keeps a light tone. He's a goofball here, not the straight man.

I still haven't watched the third episode.

Audience scores never matter to me. Everyone may be a critic, but most people are shitty at it.

lol I love how GameFAQs is so fucked up that putting a spoiler tag over a YouTube link still shows you what the video is

The original movie was tonally all over the place....indeed a bit of a mess....
Had a few scenes not suited for the youngest, and plenty of cringe to put off older audiences. ..

So the showrunners were screwed from the get go really.

TMOG posted...

I still haven't watched the third episode.

I had even more issues with the third. I can't believe the number of mind boggling decisions by the writers and director.

For some reason I am still holding out hope... I don't hate it but all the WTF moments and tonal inconsistencies pull me out of the show.

Vivaldi7 posted...

The original movie was tonally all over the place....indeed a bit of a mess....
Had a few scenes not suited for the youngest, and plenty of cringe to put off older audiences. ..

So the showrunners were screwed from the get go really.

True, but this is more inconsistent. Worse, the movie was at least a new IP. Since this is based on a 34 year old property, who is the audience? Kids and teens who never saw the original or might have a hard time watching the original? Nostalgic adults who might want something that doesn't feel like a CW show? It just makes no sense.

TMOG posted...

M&S's daughter, Kit, doesn't want to marry a prince because she doesn't even know him. The prince, Graydon, is boring and doesn't seem to be interested in doing anything at all.

Prince Valium?

HylianFox posted...

Prince Valium?

Literally

ScazarMeltex posted...

REEEEE THIS MOVIE I LOVED AS A CHILD HAS A SEQUEL WITH MINORITY REPRESENTATION IN IT

The original movie had the guy from Bad Santa and all those shitty Friedberg and Seltzer parody movies.

i watched the first episode and i couldn't stand either the CW style relationship woes or the MCU style quips during battles and tense moments. that being said, i do plan on giving it another chance and watching the next episode or two at least this weekend if i get around to it, see if it gets any better. i do like some of the characters, and the visuals are done pretty well.

Cotton_Eye_Joe posted...

characters are lesbians

Maybe I should watch this

DoesntMatter posted...

the CW style relationship woes or the MCU style quips during battles and tense moments.

These are all things that were in the original film. Especially the silliness during tense battles.

So far I enjoy the show and the tone isn't really different than the movie. The only thing I dislike is the rift between Willow and Sorsha, as well as her decision on what to do with Elora. But other than that it's been fine. Kit and Aric are definitely their father's children and Boorman is a pretty good replacement for Mad Martigan.

I was really confused when I saw this topic as I immediately thought of the 1988 film.

lolife67 posted...

These are all things that were in the original film

The CW style stuff was NOT in it. I just rewatched it.

lolife67 posted...

These are all things that were in the original film. Especially the silliness during tense battles.

not really. it was done in a different style. it was very 1980s. it was just a different vibe back then. the show is definitely taking more cues from the modern style than they are from anything from the 1980s.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

That would make it better!

1988 Willow was "Lord of the Rings, but also Star Wars"

Madmartigan was basically Han Solo if he traded in his blaster for a sword

Has there ever been a modern revival of any franchise that didn't result in the "audience" melting down?

Crimsoness posted...

Has there ever been a modern revival of any franchise that didn't result in the "audience" melting down?

Shantae.

Giant_Aspirin posted...

how long will Disney continue to just revive old franchies with shitty, low effort reboots instead of producing quality, original content?

as long as they keep making bank

People seem to forget that this is just the new avenue for Disney channel originals, which have always been trash catering to babies

Crimsoness posted...

Has there ever been a modern revival of any franchise that didn't result in the "audience" melting down?

The things is though that I have never been that person. I am usually fine with revivals. Willow just has awful writing.

Crimsoness posted...

Has there ever been a modern revival of any franchise that didn't result in the "audience" melting down?

Doctor Who

bsp77 posted...

The CW style stuff was NOT in it. I just rewatched it.

Ok explain what you specifically think of as "CW style stuff."

lolife67 posted...

Ok explain what you specifically think of as "CW style stuff."

I think that burden of proof falls to you since you were the one who made the initial claim that "CW style stuff" was in the 1988 movie

TMOG posted...

I think that burden of proof falls to you since you were the one who made the initial claim that "CW style stuff" was in the 1988 movie

Um, no lol the initial claim was that there was CW stuff in it. I was asking for clarification. You can't ask someone to prove a negative, genius.

All I want out of this, is a remake of the NES game.

Questionmarktarius posted...

All I want out of this, is a remake of the NES game.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=laFVqj_xyk4

lolife67 posted...

Um, no lol the initial claim was that there was CW stuff in it. I was asking for clarification. You can't ask someone to prove a negative, genius.

Um.

lolife67 posted...

These are all things that were in the original film. Especially the silliness during tense battles.

Which you posted in response to:

DoesntMatter posted...

the CW style relationship woes or the MCU style quips during battles and tense moments.

So, yeah, you were the one making the initial claim. How unfortunate for you that I have the superpower of "scrolling up".

TMOG posted...

So, yeah, you were the one making the initial claim. How unfortunate for you that I have the superpower of "scrolling up".

No. I responded to a claim. Nice comprehension fail, though.

Then I asked for further clarification when another poster claimed the original did not have CW relationship stuff so I could be clear exactly what they meant by the term.

lolife67 posted...

No. I responded to a claim. Nice comprehension fail, though.

You responded to somebody's opinion of the Disney+ series by making a claim about the 1988 movie.

You got awfully quiet now that you know I comprehended your posts perfectly.

So I watched the third episode. It does get a little better, I actually kind of enjoyed this one. I just wish that they'd knock it off with the credits music, because it took me right out of the episode when that Enter Sandman cover started playing over the last 20 seconds or so.

@lolife67 ran away, ouch...

"We need you to do a Willow series."
"The lesbian from Buffy the Vampire Slayer?"
"No, the George Lucas movie."
"Okay, but I'm making it about lesbians."

It's hard to tell these days what bad ratings are real and what is trolls

Zikten posted...

It's hard to tell these days what bad ratings are real and what is trolls

Yep. "Audience reviews" are basically more useless than ever, which is a shame because we live in a weird time for television, so actual nuance and understanding would be more appreciable. Especially for something like Willow, whose source isn't exactly a cultural icon.

I disagree with a few of the things in TMOGs review but im two episodes in and it's definitely not good.

The dialog is very teen CW show for sure. That doesn't fit the series at all. I'm there for magic and cool world building tbh. It's not great but it's okay enough imo

Zikten posted...

It's hard to tell these days what bad ratings are real and what is trolls

Agreed. In this case, I honestly think it is both. Lots of people have issues with it who aren't trolls, such as myself.

TMOG posted...

I made a topic about the first episode but it purged

It's not a good show

Basically if The CW wrote a high fantasy series it would be Disney+'s Willow series

bsp77 posted...

It is a complete mess from a screenplay and a tone aspect. I do kinda like how it focuses on being light and fun (at least part of the time), but it has serious issues.

These two posts convinced me that it's exactly like the original movie. Like...when's the last time you watched Willow?

bsp77 posted...

Lots of people have issues with it who aren't trolls, such as myself.

Same here. There are parts of the show I like; I love the worldbuilding and expanding of what little lore Willow already had established, and I will admit that the characters are starting to grow on me a bit. I really liked the giant woodswoman and her mute wife, I kind of feel like there's going to be a bit more to them even though they both got killed. For some reason I got the impression that they were somehow Brownies that were made huge (or some other servant of that light-lady from the movie whose name I'm forgetting) with how eager they were to become Elora's guardians.

I think I went into it with a really bad first impression because of the way the first episode was written and structured, and I'm never going to get over the horribly-fitting end credits music, especially since it seeps into the final scene of each episode to break any immersion you had.

It's already looking pretty clear though that Airk/Eric is going to be dead when they find him so that Elora and Graydon can fall in love. So the writing is kind of predictable in that regard.

COVxy posted...

Like...when's the last time you watched Willow?

Literally right before I watched the first episode of the series

TMOG posted...

Same here. There are parts of the show I like; I love the worldbuilding and expanding of what little lore Willow already had established, and I will admit that the characters are starting to grow on me a bit. I really liked the giant woodswoman and her mute wife, I kind of feel like there's going to be a bit more to them even though they both got killed. For some reason I got the impression that they were somehow Brownies that were made huge (or some other servant of that light-lady from the movie whose name I'm forgetting) with how eager they were to become Elora's guardians.

That scene kinda bugged me. Their clearing was oddly lit while everything else was gloomy. Seemed otherwordly and like something was going on. But then, it quickly ended and they were dead. Maybe they somehow return to it and it will be meaningful. Otherwise it was awful directing and cinematography.

It's already looking pretty clear though that Airk/Eric is going to be dead when they find him so that Elora and Graydon can fall in love. So the writing is kind of predictable in that regard.

Not sure if he will be dead, but I also see it telegraphed that Elora and Graydon will be a thing. I think Graydon will become an interesting character.

TMOG posted...

Literally right before I watched the first episode of the series

Same. The night before.