Poll of the Day > Are NFTs and text-to-image AI redefining "digital ownership?"

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ItsKaljinyuTime 12/11/22 3:11:50 PM #1:	The NFT. It's a digital asset you supposedly own, even though it's only on the Internet. And though you might be satisfied that you're the only one who owns it "officially" within the context of the ledger/whatever game this NFT is a part of, I can look at that thing and copy that thing and do everything with that thing except "own it within the context of the ledger." And I think most people would say "That's fine. Screenshot those NFTs. Let them know that digital ownership means nothing." The text-to-image AI. You know how they train these things? They copy other people's artwork and feed it into the mind of the AI. And so egregious is this, this new Lensa app can't even scrub the artist signatures off of the images it produces. And most people are saying "Well that's not fair, you're copying other people's work you found on the Internet." But I think proponents might then throw the NFT argument at that: We didn't "steal" anything, all we did was "look at" something on the Internet and "remember" it. You have no jurisdiction to stop us from doing that. These are the kinds of things we said before Napster and YouTube. Before we imagined that music and video could be redistributed to "large" audiences. And because those things came along, we had to come up with new rules. Between NFTs and AI, you think we're gonna have to come up with new rules? --- Kaljinyu <cite>ItsKaljinyuTime posted [p:970088558] in Are NFTs a... [t:80272609]...</cite> <quote>The NFT. It's a digital asset you supposedly own, even though it's only on the Internet. And though you might be satisfied that you're the only one who owns it "officially" within the context of the ledger/whatever game this NFT is a part of, I can look at that thing and copy that thing and do everything with that thing except "own it within the context of the ledger." And I think most people would say "That's fine. Screenshot those NFTs. Let them know that digital ownership means nothing."The text-to-image AI. You know how they train these things? They copy other people's artwork and feed it into the mind of the AI. And so egregious is this, this new Lensa app can't even scrub the artist signatures off of the images it produces. And most people are saying "Well that's not fair, you're copying other people's work you found on the Internet." But I think proponents might then throw the NFT argument at that: We didn't "steal" anything, all we did was "look at" something on the Internet and "remember" it. You have no jurisdiction to stop us from doing that.These are the kinds of things we said before Napster and YouTube. Before we imagined that music and video could be redistributed to "large" audiences. And because those things came along, we had to come up with new rules. Between NFTs and AI, you think we're gonna have to come up with new rules?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
bo_danvers 12/11/22 3:14:25 PM #2:	No. <cite>bo_danvers posted [p:970088626] in Are NFTs a... [t:80272609]...</cite> <quote>No.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
streamofthesky 12/11/22 3:15:08 PM #3:	bo_danvers posted... No. <cite>streamofthesky posted [p:970088649] in Are NFTs a... [t:80272609]...</cite> <quote>bo_danvers posted... </cite><quote>No.</quote></quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
SKARDAVNELNATE 12/11/22 3:15:33 PM #4:	No. If you have to connect to something or need permission to access the thing you bought you don't actually own it. --- No locked doors, no windows barred. No more things to make my brain seem SKARD. Look at Mr. Technical over here >.> -BTB <cite>SKARDAVNELNATE posted [p:970088662] in Are NFTs a... [t:80272609]...</cite> <quote>No. If you have to connect to something or need permission to access the thing you bought you don't actually own it.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
ReturnOfFa 12/11/22 3:40:53 PM #5:	https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/9/5/4/AAUdByAAD-oK.jpg --- girls like my fa <cite>ReturnOfFa posted [p:970089311] in Are NFTs a... [t:80272609]...</cite> <quote>https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/9/5/4/AAUdByAAD-oK.jpg </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
ItsKaljinyuTime 12/11/22 4:01:57 PM #6:	SKARDAVNELNATE posted... No. If you have to connect to something or need permission to access the thing you bought you don't actually own it. So these AIs, it's cool that they're standing on the shoulders of human artists? Do the human artists have no right to keep these AIs from learning from them? --- Kaljinyu <cite>ItsKaljinyuTime posted [p:970089888] in Are NFTs a... [t:80272609]...</cite> <quote>SKARDAVNELNATE posted... </cite><quote>No. If you have to connect to something or need permission to access the thing you bought you don't actually own it.</quote>So these AIs, it's cool that they're standing on the shoulders of human artists? Do the human artists have no right to keep these AIs from learning from them?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
JOExHIGASHI 12/11/22 5:37:33 PM #7:	bo_danvers posted... No. --- In the long run we are all dead <cite>JOExHIGASHI posted [p:970092285] in Are NFTs a... [t:80272609]...</cite> <quote>bo_danvers posted... </cite><quote>No.</quote></quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
BlackScythe0 12/11/22 5:42:38 PM #8:	NFTs are a scam just plain and simple. AI art as it stands can never be "legitimate" since it is 100% plagiarism. <cite>BlackScythe0 posted [p:970092388] in Are NFTs a... [t:80272609]...</cite> <quote>NFTs are a scam just plain and simple. AI art as it stands can never be "legitimate" since it is 100% plagiarism. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
slacker03150 12/11/22 5:43:14 PM #9:	https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/0/6/7/AANQoPAAD-p7.png You see this? I own it. You pay me $50 and you could rent it from me for a month at a time. --- I am awesome and so are you. Lenny gone but not forgotten. - 12/10/2015 <cite>slacker03150 posted [p:970092403] in Are NFTs a... [t:80272609]...</cite> <quote>https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/0/6/7/AANQoPAAD-p7.png You see this? I own it. You pay me $50 and you could rent it from me for a month at a time.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
SKARDAVNELNATE 12/11/22 6:06:04 PM #10:	ItsKaljinyuTime posted... So these AIs, it's cool that they're standing on the shoulders of human artists? Do the human artists have no right to keep these AIs from learning from them? Every artist loses control of their works the moment it enters public consciousness. It's not unusual for painters to learn by reproducing famous paintings. Musicians learn by practicing well known melodies. Writers adapt and homage other authors styles. --- No locked doors, no windows barred. No more things to make my brain seem SKARD. Look at Mr. Technical over here >.> -BTB <cite>SKARDAVNELNATE posted [p:970092951] in Are NFTs a... [t:80272609]...</cite> <quote>ItsKaljinyuTime posted... </cite><quote>So these AIs, it's cool that they're standing on the shoulders of human artists? Do the human artists have no right to keep these AIs from learning from them?</quote>Every artist loses control of their works the moment it enters public consciousness. It's not unusual for painters to learn by reproducing famous paintings. Musicians learn by practicing well known melodies. Writers adapt and homage other authors styles.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Shananagainz 12/11/22 6:26:13 PM #11:	bo_danvers posted... No. --- Currently Playing: SMT 3: Nocturne, God of War 2005, Batman: Arkham Origins <cite>Shananagainz posted [p:970093508] in Are NFTs a... [t:80272609]...</cite> <quote>bo_danvers posted... </cite><quote>No.</quote></quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
ItsKaljinyuTime 12/12/22 11:57:49 AM #12:	BlackScythe0 posted... NFTs are a scam just plain and simple. AI art as it stands can never be "legitimate" since it is 100% plagiarism. Plagiarism? You can't own a digital thing. What's more, the works these AI create are, by definition, transformative. So it'd be fair use even if you could own a digital thing. --- Kaljinyu <cite>ItsKaljinyuTime posted [p:970108843] in Are NFTs a... [t:80272609]...</cite> <quote>BlackScythe0 posted... </cite><quote>NFTs are a scam just plain and simple. AI art as it stands can never be "legitimate" since it is 100% plagiarism.</quote>Plagiarism? You can't own a digital thing. What's more, the works these AI create are, by definition, transformative. So it'd be fair use even if you could own a digital thing.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
BlackScythe0 12/12/22 12:32:55 PM #13:	ItsKaljinyuTime posted... Plagiarism? You can't own a digital thing. What's more, the works these AI create are, by definition, transformative. So it'd be fair use even if you could own a digital thing. Yea that is why people have been able to find their own art used in ai art rolls eyes If anyone attempts to use AI art an a commercial fashion they are going to run afoul of copywrite. <cite>BlackScythe0 posted [p:970109545] in Are NFTs a... [t:80272609]...</cite> <quote>ItsKaljinyuTime posted... </cite><quote>Plagiarism? You can't own a digital thing. What's more, the works these AI create are, by definition, transformative. So it'd be fair use even if you could own a digital thing.</quote>Yea that is why people have been able to find their own art used in ai art rolls eyesIf anyone attempts to use AI art an a commercial fashion they are going to run afoul of copywrite. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Muscles 12/12/22 1:39:26 PM #14:	SKARDAVNELNATE posted... Every artist loses control of their works the moment it enters public consciousness. It's not unusual for painters to learn by reproducing famous paintings. Musicians learn by practicing well known melodies. Writers adapt and homage other authors styles. Yet all those people get shit on if they plagiarize something, look at vanilla ice as an example --- Muscles Chicago Bears \| Chicago Blackhawks \| Chicago Bulls \| Chicago Cubs \| NIU Huskies <cite>Muscles posted [p:970111086] in Are NFTs a... [t:80272609]...</cite> <quote>SKARDAVNELNATE posted... </cite><quote>Every artist loses control of their works the moment it enters public consciousness. It's not unusual for painters to learn by reproducing famous paintings. Musicians learn by practicing well known melodies. Writers adapt and homage other authors styles.</quote>Yet all those people get shit on if they plagiarize something, look at vanilla ice as an example</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
BlackScythe0 12/12/22 1:48:24 PM #15:	Muscles posted... Yet all those people get shit on if they plagiarize something, look at vanilla ice as an example It's Skard he has no clue what he is talking about. When you commercialize another persons art you get into legal trouble. Like if someone wrote a book and wanted to put it up on kindle but decided "ai art" was a good option for getting cover art for it they would get into legal trouble if the person the ai sourced the art from found it being used without permission. <cite>BlackScythe0 posted [p:970111251] in Are NFTs a... [t:80272609]...</cite> <quote>Muscles posted... </cite><quote>Yet all those people get shit on if they plagiarize something, look at vanilla ice as an example</quote>It's Skard he has no clue what he is talking about. When you commercialize another persons art you get into legal trouble. Like if someone wrote a book and wanted to put it up on kindle but decided "ai art" was a good option for getting cover art for it they would get into legal trouble if the person the ai sourced the art from found it being used without permission. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
ItsKaljinyuTime 12/12/22 2:43:49 PM #16:	BlackScythe0 posted... Yea that is why people have been able to find their own art used in ai art rolls eyes If anyone attempts to use AI art an a commercial fashion they are going to run afoul of copywrite. It's not exactly their art. The AI learned from their art to make something new. It's a transformation of their art. All the AI did was look at it and try to make something kinda similar to it. But even still, it's a digital image. I thought those couldn't be owned? --- Kaljinyu <cite>ItsKaljinyuTime posted [p:970112460] in Are NFTs a... [t:80272609]...</cite> <quote>BlackScythe0 posted... </cite><quote>Yea that is why people have been able to find their own art used in ai art rolls eyesIf anyone attempts to use AI art an a commercial fashion they are going to run afoul of copywrite.</quote>It's not exactly their art. The AI learned from their art to make something new. It's a transformation of their art. All the AI did was look at it and try to make something kinda similar to it.But even still, it's a digital image. I thought those couldn't be owned?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
SKARDAVNELNATE 12/13/22 12:39:37 AM #17:	Muscles posted... Yet all those people get shit on if they plagiarize something, look at vanilla ice as an example I never listened to his music. I don't know what a bassline is. I do remember seeing the interview where he was bad at explaining what the difference between the songs was. My thoughts about it were were summed up by Peter Griffin. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bvg6gUn94FA BlackScythe0 posted... It's Skard he has no clue what he is talking about. Were any of my examples incorrect? The question asked was "Do the human artists have no right to keep these AIs from learning from them?" They don't have that right in regard to other humans learning from them. They don't have that right in regard to AI either. --- No locked doors, no windows barred. No more things to make my brain seem SKARD. Look at Mr. Technical over here >.> -BTB <cite>SKARDAVNELNATE posted [p:970124978] in Are NFTs a... [t:80272609]...</cite> <quote>Muscles posted... </cite><quote>Yet all those people get shit on if they plagiarize something, look at vanilla ice as an example</quote>I never listened to his music. I don't know what a bassline is. I do remember seeing the interview where he was bad at explaining what the difference between the songs was. My thoughts about it were were summed up by Peter Griffin.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bvg6gUn94FABlackScythe0 posted... </cite><quote>It's Skard he has no clue what he is talking about.</quote>Were any of my examples incorrect? The question asked was "Do the human artists have no right to keep these AIs from learning from them?" They don't have that right in regard to other humans learning from them. They don't have that right in regard to AI either.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Yellow 12/13/22 1:55:03 AM #18:	I think people are attacking AI right now because for some reason it's associated with NFTs and crypto... but unlike those things, AI is only going to get more prevalent. People will eventually drop their hate boner for AI and see it as the neutral tool that it is. AI art is popping up on the internet. You know how it's going? People are tagging it as AI art and respecting it for what it is... which is a generation that anyone could make with the click of a button and not real art. I do respect that people are making sure it stays in its place. I don't respect the "I do not condone an AI training with my art" perspective. Yeah, but people "train" their own brains and become inspired by looking at your art. The only reason this attitude hasn't become a huge problem is that they just so happen to be a weak demographic with no political power. It's just a very... petty complaint. The way I look at is if you're standing in between society and the inevitable future... you've got to step to the side. I don't remember artists ever really having a fair shot at a professional life anyway. For every 100 artists there's one with a job doing it, but they act like AI is going to ruin everything and take er jerbs. <cite>Yellow posted [p:970125889] in Are NFTs a... [t:80272609]...</cite> <quote>I think people are attacking AI right now because for some reason it's associated with NFTs and crypto... but unlike those things, AI is only going to get more prevalent.People will eventually drop their hate boner for AI and see it as the neutral tool that it is. AI art is popping up on the internet. You know how it's going? People are tagging it as AI art and respecting it for what it is... which is a generation that anyone could make with the click of a button and not real art. I do respect that people are making sure it stays in its place.I don't respect the "I do not condone an AI training with my art" perspective. Yeah, but people "train" their own brains and become inspired by looking at your art. The only reason this attitude hasn't become a huge problem is that they just so happen to be a weak demographic with no political power. It's just a very... petty complaint.The way I look at is if you're standing in between society and the inevitable future... you've got to step to the side. I don't remember artists ever really having a fair shot at a professional life anyway. For every 100 artists there's one with a job doing it, but they act like AI is going to ruin everything and take er jerbs.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
ItsKaljinyuTime 12/13/22 3:43:26 PM #19:	Yellow posted... I think people are attacking AI right now because for some reason it's associated with NFTs and crypto... but unlike those things, AI is only going to get more prevalent. People will eventually drop their hate boner for AI and see it as the neutral tool that it is. AI art is popping up on the internet. You know how it's going? People are tagging it as AI art and respecting it for what it is... which is a generation that anyone could make with the click of a button and not real art. I do respect that people are making sure it stays in its place. I don't respect the "I do not condone an AI training with my art" perspective. Yeah, but people "train" their own brains and become inspired by looking at your art. The only reason this attitude hasn't become a huge problem is that they just so happen to be a weak demographic with no political power. It's just a very... petty complaint. The way I look at is if you're standing in between society and the inevitable future... you've got to step to the side. I don't remember artists ever really having a fair shot at a professional life anyway. For every 100 artists there's one with a job doing it, but they act like AI is going to ruin everything and take er jerbs. But if making money as an artist is already hard, why kick them while they're down? I'm a real life example of this conflict: I was gonna pay $10 on Patreon to have my portrait drawn in this particular artist's style. But now I can go on Lensa and have many pictures drawn of me. And if I don't factor in my feelings for the human who's losing a gig I might've offered them, it's very likely I would go for Lensa without a second thought. --- Kaljinyu <cite>ItsKaljinyuTime posted [p:970137922] in Are NFTs a... [t:80272609]...</cite> <quote>Yellow posted... </cite><quote>I think people are attacking AI right now because for some reason it's associated with NFTs and crypto... but unlike those things, AI is only going to get more prevalent.People will eventually drop their hate boner for AI and see it as the neutral tool that it is. AI art is popping up on the internet. You know how it's going? People are tagging it as AI art and respecting it for what it is... which is a generation that anyone could make with the click of a button and not real art. I do respect that people are making sure it stays in its place.I don't respect the "I do not condone an AI training with my art" perspective. Yeah, but people "train" their own brains and become inspired by looking at your art. The only reason this attitude hasn't become a huge problem is that they just so happen to be a weak demographic with no political power. It's just a very... petty complaint.The way I look at is if you're standing in between society and the inevitable future... you've got to step to the side. I don't remember artists ever really having a fair shot at a professional life anyway. For every 100 artists there's one with a job doing it, but they act like AI is going to ruin everything and take er jerbs.</quote>But if making money as an artist is already hard, why kick them while they're down?I'm a real life example of this conflict: I was gonna pay $10 on Patreon to have my portrait drawn in this particular artist's style. But now I can go on Lensa and have many pictures drawn of me. And if I don't factor in my feelings for the human who's losing a gig I might've offered them, it's very likely I would go for Lensa without a second thought.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
rjsilverthorn 12/13/22 8:51:18 PM #20:	This popped up in my recommendations and reminded me of this thread: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6aeL83z_9Y I've always considered NFT's a scam, but it is actually worse than I thought. <cite>rjsilverthorn posted [p:970144400] in Are NFTs a... [t:80272609]...</cite> <quote>This popped up in my recommendations and reminded me of this thread: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6aeL83z_9YI've always considered NFT's a scam, but it is actually worse than I thought. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Poll of the Day > Are NFTs and text-to-image AI redefining "digital ownership?" (+) Yeah! (+)

Poll of the Day > Are NFTs and text-to-image AI redefining "digital ownership?"