Current Events > MCU is falling apart for the same reason real comics are.

(+) Yeah! (+)

You will notice both comics and MCU movies lack a cohesive narrative despite sharing the same universe.

This was inevitable when you keep introducing new characters and have to keep upping the power levels for the villains.

Now there is absolutely no way to keep on a consistent narrative for the MCU. Like we did with the earlier phases and infinity gems. Now. We have a vague concept of a multiverse along with introduction of more cosmic concepts like in Eternals.

This phase was never going to live up to what came before and Marvel knew it. This is the same as phase 2 after the first avengers. You have to build stuff up again. Things usually pick back up when an Antman movie comes out.

Also Marvel took some risks this phase. Some paid off like a lot of the TV shows. But some of the movies didnt hit as hard.

They also had to deal with covid shifting the timeline for projects by months and sometimes years. The release dates jumbled a lot of things. In a perfect world we would have had a lot more consistency but we arent.

But sure the MCU is failing. So tired of this take. People just want it to fail now. Missing the forest for the tress in the process

it feels like there hasn't been any mcu stuff in a while

I think it's slowly setting in that Guardians of the Galaxy was the exception and not the rule. For superhero movies to be successful, they usually have to be characters that people outside the comic fandom have heard of.

Marvel is still sitting on X-Men and Fantastic Four. So things can pick up again in the near future. Miles Morales has also had a boost in popularity due to the Into the Spider-Verse films. Maybe he could be the next film Spider-Man and be as successful as Tom Holland's Peter Parker. The MCU is down a Black male hero after retiring T'Challa.

It is REALLY too early to be claiming the MCU is "falling apart"

RchHomieQuanChi posted...

It is REALLY too early to be claiming the MCU is "falling apart"

But one could argue its not off to a great start with setting things up.

Phase One set up things pretty damn well and Phase Two and Three built on that. With these next Phases you have the Multiverse and Kang and well its just not a good set up

Baha05 posted...

But one could argue its not off to a great start with setting things up.

Phase One set up things pretty damn well and Phase Two and Three built on that. With these next Phases you have the Multiverse and Kang and well its just not a good set up

Phase 1 and 2 also had a much smaller scope and people forget that MANY of the Phase 1 and 2 movies were pretty mid.

RchHomieQuanChi posted...

Phase 1 and 2 also had a much smaller scope and people forget that MANY of the Phase 1 and 2 movies were pretty mid.

This is true, but there has never been a poorer phase than the current one.

Glob posted...

This is true, but there has never been a poorer phase than the current one.

Its only relative to whats came before. And its still subjective.

Same universe? You mean insofar as it's all Marvel, right?

Cuz in the official canon, the comics mostly take place on Earth-616, while the films take place on Earth-199999.

ToadallyAwesome posted...

Its only relative to whats came before. And its still subjective.

Its really not and its biggest issue is the heavy TV show focus too.

They kinda lucked out on releasing a "pandemic phase" with a culprit to pin things on.

Heartomaton posted...

Cuz in the official canon, the comics mostly take place on Earth-616, while the films take place on Earth-199999.

This bothers me. According to Multiverse of Madness, the main universe in the films take place on Earth-616.

So, now we have...

Earth-616
Earth-616(1) AKA Earth-199999

Things have just been so Meh, as of late. Heck look at She-Hulk. Most of the engagement on that was people complaining about it.
There are more people still talking about Recasting T'Challa then people who are talking about the new person in the suit. And that movie made bank.
Thor sucked and it had every thing it needed to be great.
Wanda just going around killing people and for some reason has fans wanting to redeem her. Oddly it seems to many the same people who like Reylo and want him back too.

So overall just Meh.

Heartomaton posted...

Same universe? You mean insofar as it's all Marvel, right?

Cuz in the official canon, the comics mostly take place on Earth-616, while the films take place on Earth-199999.

That's a lot of 9s

Monferno_AQW posted...

This bothers me. According to Multiverse of Madness, the main universe in the films take place on Earth-616.

So, now we have...

Earth-616
Earth-616(1) AKA Earth-199999

It's self-referenced as Earth-616, but it's 199999 in the overall canon, so I like to think of it in the same way as restaurants that claim to have "the best _____ in the world!" even though there's no way they could possibly know that.

Monferno_AQW posted...

This bothers me. According to Multiverse of Madness, the main universe in the films take place on Earth-616.

Dr. Palmer-838 is an unreliable narrator.

Imo I think the multiverse shit has already overstayed its welcome. They squandered it by drip feeding it and doing all these bait and switches. Just introduce the X-Men and fucking be done with it.

What metric are you using to suggest its falling apart because it sure isnt profit / views of the films.

Medussa posted...

Dr. Palmer-838 is an unreliable narrator.

It was listed as 616 by the TVA in the Loki series too. On the projector reel showing they had of his life, he was listed as Loki 616.

SHRlKE posted...

What metric are you using to suggest its falling apart because it sure isnt profit / views of the films.

The movies lack a common narrative and introduce these strange concepts that make it weird "x character wasn't there to save the day"
Kind of deal

I think the thing with Phase 4 that makes it so divisive is that a lot of the content isn't really meant to appeal to everyone. Stuff like No Way Home, Wakanda Forever and Shang-Chi has that universal appeal.

But then you've got stuff like WandaVision where you might not be into it if you don't care for the sitcom theme or She-Hulk, if you don't like slice-of-life comedy.

KogaSteelfang posted...

It was listed as 616 by the TVA in the Loki series too. On the projector reel showing they had of his life, he was listed as Loki 616.

ew, was it really...

Aloc posted...

The movies lack a common narrative and introduce these strange concepts that make it weird "x character wasn't there to save the day"
Kind of deal

Why does there need to be a common narrative?

RchHomieQuanChi posted...

Why does there need to be a common narrative?

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

There's no payoff to a shared universe if there isn't a common narrative.

It's "precisely" why having Batman and Superman in the same universe leads to so much stupidity when literally any powerful superman foe can kill batman before he blinksm

MCU is falling apart the same reason aaa games are falling apart.

ToadallyAwesome posted...

Its only relative to whats came before. And its still subjective.

Of course its subjective.

But so far in phase 4 weve had what, 1 and a half decent showings? Im including the TV shows that Ive seen in that too.

Aloc posted...

There's no payoff to a shared universe if there isn't a common narrative.

But the scale of the current MCU is such that thot everything needs to all immediately tie-in together. Like you can still have characters split off into their own smaller scale crossovers that don't quite match up to an Avengers-scale movie. Spidey can be off doing shit with Daredevil, while Val goes around recruiting various MCU villains and anti-villains into the Thunderbolts.

The next Avengers movie isn't even happening for another 2 years so they can certainly use Phase 4 to tackle new concepts, establish a new status quo and try out different combinations of characters to see who has good chemistry.

Glob posted...

Of course its subjective.

But so far in phase 4 weve had what, 1 and a half good showings? Im including the TV shows that Ive seen in that too.

No Way Home, Shang-Chi, WandaVision, Loki and Wakanda Forever were all nearly universally loved when they came out. Werewolf by Night is also something that nobody is talking about but everyone who saw it says they loved it.

As for the other shit, again, Phase 4 was just experimenting around with different types of formats and concepts and not everything was meant to appeal to everyone. That's perfectly fine.

Medussa posted...

ew, was it really...

It was indeed. That's 3 times the film universe is referred to as 616. In Loki, Far from Home, and Multiverse of Madness. Though, Far from Home's feels like more of an Easter egg or hint than anything. The other two feel much more official.

RchHomieQuanChi posted...

But the scale of the current MCU is such that thot everything needs to all immediately tie-in together. Like you can still have characters split off into their own smaller scale crossovers that don't quite match up to an Avengers-scale movie. Spidey can be off doing shit with Daredevil, while Val goes around recruiting various MCU villains and anti-villains into the Thunderbolts.

The next Avengers movie isn't even happening for another 2 years so they can certainly use Phase 4 to tackle new concepts, establish a new status quo and try out different combinations of characters to see who has good chemistry.

dude just for context before you put much more effort into responding to this dude

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/8/4/4/AAfPfjAAEHY8.jpg

KogaSteelfang posted...

It was indeed. That's 3 times the film universe is referred to as 616. In Loki, Far from Home, and Multiverse of Madness. Though, Far from Home's feels like more of an Easter egg or hint than anything. The other two feel much more official.

it actually just completely ruins the FFH one. since beck was just bullshitting the entire time, the number drop was a fun easter egg and a clue to the twist. now apparently, he's the luckiest bullshitter in any universe.

disappointed, Mr. Feige. hopefully Iman Vellani can set him straight. she was already on this.

Medussa posted...

it actually just completely ruins the FFH one. since beck was just bullshitting the entire time, the number drop was a fun easter egg and a clue to the twist. now apparently, he's the luckiest bullshitter in any universe.

I actually like the fan-theory that *MoM SPOILERS* Quentin Beck just dreamed of his life in the 838 universe as an employee of the Baxter Building and saw that our universe was referred to as the 616 universe.

Glob posted...

This is true, but there has never been a poorer phase than the current one.

Hahahahahahahahahaha

The problem is that they don't have any central pillar characters propping things up, anymore.

Cap and Iron Man were big personalities that lent themselves very well to being the two big pillars of the overall team. Lots of connections with other characters, with their own personal story arcs acting as almost the main thrust of the orlverarching narrative.

And now they're no longer a factor. And there's absolutely nothing to replace them.

Thor's fucked off into space and no longer has any real ties or connection with anyone left on earth. Even his friendship with the Guradians is pretty much done.

The Guardians never had any real connection with anyone else to start with.

Spiderman has had the best movies, but has basically been wandering around by himself since Endgame. And after No Way Home, that's definitely not changing any time soon.

Dr. Strange's whole shtick is that he's basically always alone, anyway.

Marvel clearly wanted Captain Marvel to be one of the new "pillar" leaders. But she too has fucked off into space by herself, and has literally no meaningful connection with anyone else, at all.

Hulk has nothing to do, and tbh locking him into Professor Hulk Banner persona has made him so much less interesting.

T'Challa's dead, because Chadwick's dead.

Even Nick Fury seems to have given up, seeing as he's been doing sweet FA ever since endgame.

Who's left? Falcon Cap? I love Sam, but he is NOT holding things together; at least not at this juncture.

The whole MCU has basically devolved into a bunch of random, disconnected characters all doing random, disconnected things. There's no longer any narrative through line, or anything tying these characters together. The only indication they even share a universe anymore is a few throwaway lines, and the fact they say they do. At this juncture, the Avengers as a CONCEPT is basically dead, in universe.

they are probably just gonna reboot so they can recast the big hitters

RchHomieQuanChi posted...

No Way Home, Shang-Chi, WandaVision, Loki and Wakanda Forever were all nearly universally loved when they came out. Werewolf by Night is also something that nobody is talking about but everyone who saw it says they loved it.

As for the other shit, again, Phase 4 was just experimenting around with different types of formats and concepts and not everything was meant to appeal to everyone. That's perfectly fine.

I dont mind Wakanda Forever and the first half of Shang Chi was good. Havent seen Werewolf By Night, to be fair, as theres no legitimate way to watch it here.

No Way Home was absolute toss. It was nostalgic but lacking in any sort of substance. They clearly hoped that the nostalgia would be enough to carry it and for a lot of people it would seem they were right.

Strange was really disappointing and billed as this thing that was going to blow the multiverse wide open and then did next to nothing with it. It was also complete nonsense even by comic book standards. I mean, Wanda discovers that the multiverse exists, where there are infinite universes of every single possibility and she doesnt think for a moment that there might be one where her children are there but she isnt?

Wandavision was interesting for the first couple of episodes because of the tonal shift. It left you wondering what they were going to do with it. Then it became clear that they had no idea so they just threw it all out the window and we got a very badly written MCU spectacle with terrible CGI.

Garioshi posted...

Hahahahahahahahahaha

Why is this so funny to you? Im genuinely curious which phase you thought was worse?

Aloc posted...

You will notice both comics and MCU movies lack a cohesive narrative despite sharing the same universe.

This was inevitable when you keep introducing new characters and have to keep upping the power levels for the villains.

Now there is absolutely no way to keep on a consistent narrative for the MCU. Like we did with the earlier phases and infinity gems. Now. We have a vague concept of a multiverse along with introduction of more cosmic concepts like in Eternals.

There.. absolutely is a cohesive narrative, were just in the setup phase. There are a couple thoroughlines right now, as there have always been. The key narrative is that the multiverse is a thing thats about to impact the main universe, and the way thats going to happen is Kang The Conquerer. there are other plots involving world governments and the emergence of new powers, just like there were during the infinity saga.

Youre just stating theres a problem with basically no evidence of an actual problem. And that the MCU is falling apart as it continues to thrive, and the movie that continues the set up for the next Avengers movie comes out next month.

MedeaLysistrata posted...

it feels like there hasn't been any mcu stuff in a while

Its been like two months

Heartomaton posted...

Same universe? You mean insofar as it's all Marvel, right?

Cuz in the official canon, the comics mostly take place on Earth-616, while the films take place on Earth-199999.

This isnt actually true. The MCU is its own canon. The main universe is 616. Its an adaptation of the comic 616.

Earth-199999 is a universe in the comic canon that is similar to the MCU, but isnt actually the MCU, because theyre not in the same canon or the same multiverse.

cjsdowg posted...

Things have just been so Meh, as of late. Heck look at She-Hulk. Most of the engagement on that was people complaining about it.
There are more people still talking about Recasting T'Challa then people who are talking about the new person in the suit. And that movie made bank.
Thor sucked and it had every thing it needed to be great.
Wanda just going around killing people and for some reason has fans wanting to redeem her. Oddly it seems to many the same people who like Reylo and want him back too.

So overall just Meh.

people on the internet just like to complain, but the movie made bank. Yeah its almost like idiots on the internet are a vocal minority.

DarkBuster22904 posted...

The problem is that they don't have any central pillar characters propping things up, anymore.

Cap and Iron Man were big personalities that lent themselves very well to being the two big pillars of the overall team. Lots of connections with other characters, with their own personal story arcs acting as almost the main thrust of the orlverarching narrative.

And now they're no longer a factor. And there's absolutely nothing to replace them.

Thor's fucked off into space and no longer has any real ties or connection with anyone left on earth. Even his friendship with the Guradians is pretty much done.

The Guardians never had any real connection with anyone else to start with.

Spiderman has had the best movies, but has basically been wandering around by himself since Endgame. And after No Way Home, that's definitely not changing any time soon.

Dr. Strange's whole shtick is that he's basically always alone, anyway.

Marvel clearly wanted Captain Marvel to be one of the new "pillar" leaders. But she too has fucked off into space by herself, and has literally no meaningful connection with anyone else, at all.

Hulk has nothing to do, and tbh locking him into Professor Hulk Banner persona has made him so much less interesting.

T'Challa's dead, because Chadwick's dead.

Even Nick Fury seems to have given up, seeing as he's been doing sweet FA ever since endgame.

Who's left? Falcon Cap? I love Sam, but he is NOT holding things together; at least not at this juncture.

The whole MCU has basically devolved into a bunch of random, disconnected characters all doing random, disconnected things. There's no longer any narrative through line, or anything tying these characters together. The only indication they even share a universe anymore is a few throwaway lines, and the fact they say they do. At this juncture, the Avengers as a CONCEPT is basically dead, in universe.

To be clear, theres still a ton of connections, but right now its setup. Nobody was connected in phase 1 until avengers. Even in phase 2 everyone was basically doing their own thing. GOTG didnt even touch the rest of the MCU until Infinity War. Youre judging the setup phase like its literally the final lead up to Infinity War. They have to assemble again, with new members, to deal with a threat they havent even learned about yet. Which they are likely going to find out about in universe.. next month.

of course claiming they are not connected when even Shang Chi was connected to not only hulk, captain marvel, and doctor strange, but IRON MAN 3, is really silly to begin with.

5 fucking posts in a row.

Glob posted...

Of course its subjective.

But so far in phase 4 weve had what, 1 and a half decent showings? Im including the TV shows that Ive seen in that too.

I have really enjoyed everything from phase 4.

IfGodCouldDie posted...

I have really enjoyed everything from phase 4.

Good for you. Genuinely.

Im glad that there are people enjoying it, but Ive found it impossible to be one of them. Its a shame, because Id really like to.

FortuneCookie posted...

For superhero movies to be successful, they usually have to be characters that people outside the comic fandom have heard of.

I feel that 99% of the MCU were characters no one had heard of before tbh.