Current Events > Kingdom hearts is the most ambitious crossover. Super smash bros hold my beer

(+) Yeah! (+)

Baha05 posted...

But I think the big problem with the Disney stuff is the fact that they are not only already established stories which means you arent given wiggle room to really go too far from straying but also the fact that we only have like finite number of stories.

though 3 at least has the Pixar characters affect things somewhat. Yeetus Vanitas is iconic for a reason

mehmeh1 posted...

though 3 at least has the Pixar characters affect things somewhat. Yeetus Vanitas is iconic for a reason

Pixar might be far more lax then Disney so that helps. Also is Big Hero Six a heavy Disney movie or was it Pixar?

Baha05 posted...

Pixar might be far more lax then Disney so that helps. Also is Big Hero Six a heavy Disney movie or was it Pixar?

Pixar definitely isn't more lax. They made Toy Story happen in an alternate reality world because they didn't want the KH characters to interact with the "real" versions of the Toy Story characters.

Holy_Cloud105 posted...

Pixar definitely isn't more lax. They made Toy Story happen in an alternate reality world because they didn't want the KH characters to interact with the "real" versions of the Toy Story characters.

I mean all these interactions are going to be alternate realities regardless. Plus Id argue it be more for the fact that the whole toys being toys and not exposing themselves to humans would be a big part of it anyhow.

Baha05 posted...

I mean all these interactions are going to be alternate realities regardless. Plus Id argue it be more for the fact that the whole toys being toys and not exposing themselves to humans would be a big part of it anyhow.

There's interviews saying Pixar didn't want them to have Toy Story because they thought KH was weird. Then SE had to figure out how to deal with the story because Pixar told them the story for Toy Story is complete. It ended up with this alternate world that Pixar ultimately approved and is canon in the Toy Story universe between 2 and 3. The alternate world is why it ended up being one of the better worlds, though. Gave them more freedom.

Holy_Cloud105 posted...

There's interviews saying Pixar didn't want them to have Toy Story because they thought KH was weird. Then SE had to figure out how to deal with the story because Pixar told them the story for Toy Story is complete. It ended up with this alternate world that Pixar ultimately approved and is canon in the Toy Story universe between 2 and 3.

Ironic I guess coming from Pixar but in any case this shouldnt even have been discussed since all these games have what is argued as alternative takes.

And then in 3 they just completely erased the FF characters

Baha05 posted...

Ironic I guess coming from Pixar but in any case this shouldnt even have been discussed since all these games have what is argued as alternative takes.

Agreed, but that's not how Disney and Pixar see it. There's a reason Sora, Donald and Goofy almost never interact with Elsa and the Frozen story just happens without them being involved at all.

MC_BatCommander posted...

And then in 3 they just completely erased the FF characters

Cus they dont really have much to contribute to the plot at that point and Radiant Garden isnt a world you could go to.

Holy_Cloud105 posted...

People have this weird hate boner for him with things he didn't even do. Like all the changes in FF7R were the work of Kitase and Nojima. They literally said in an interview Nomura had to stop them from going overboard, he tried to keep the game as close to the original FF7 as possible AND that he wanted a 1:1 remake of the story in the first place.

Yeah this is what I was getting at.

Ruvan22 posted...

So the Wikipedia entry on Disney version Beast says he "used the powers of darkness" to get to Belle... maybe some dialogue or exposition about what he did is what I'm confusing with guilt?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beast_(Beauty_and_the_Beast)#Kingdom_Hearts
Determined to rescue Belle, Beast goes as far as to exploit the power of darkness and risk his own life to transport himself to Hollow Bastion, where Belle is being held captive with the other six Princesses of Heart.

Yeah, supplementary material explain how Beast used his darkness to open a corridor to Hollow Bastion to rescue Belle, but the game itself doesn't really touch on it much.

ViewtifulGrave posted...

Nomura says otherwise.

Yeah, Nomura can say whatever he wants. He's completely out of touch with his own series if he doesn't think that Kingdom Hearts hasn't been considered "a Disney x FF crossover" by the general population for the better part of two entire decades.

Yeah, FF characters don't do shit anymore, but that was their own choice to keep omitting them. There was so much backlash over KH3 not having any that they added them back in for the DLC. People obviously (and rightfully) view the FF characters as a part of the franchise's identity. And trying to deny that is revisionist history.

Rharyx211 posted...

Yeah, supplementary material explain how Beast used his darkness to open a corridor to Hollow Bastion to rescue Belle, but the game itself doesn't really touch on it much.

Are you sure about that? I'm pretty sure the in-game explanation was that when his world was swallowed by the Heartless, his feelings for Belle brought him to her. It's no different than Sora showing up in Traverse Town or Riku in Hollow Bastion. Beast was just guided.

I recall Maleficent or Riku commenting on Beast's strength of heart or something, and then what Beast said himself to Sora. And it's enough to paint a picture of exactly how things went down.

But the specifics (what little there were) weren't really ironed out until an Ultimania detailed how dark corridors worked, and such.

Rharyx211 posted...

I recall Maleficent or Riku commenting on Beast's strength of heart or something, and then what Beast said himself to Sora. And it's enough to paint a picture of exactly how things went down.

But the specifics (what little there were) weren't really ironed out until an Ultimania detailed how dark corridors worked, and such.

You wouldn't happen to have a link to the description of dark corridors would you/

Not atm cuz I'm at work on my phone.

When I get home I'll be able to find something.

Rharyx211 posted...

Not atm cuz I'm at work on my phone.

When I get home I'll be able to find something.

Awesome thanks! I'm still pretty sure I won't play any of the other games, but for some reason Beast being the only one there when everyone had left really sticks in my mind...

No problem.
Yeah, Beast is a chad. Prob why his world is really the only one I like from KH2. He felt more of a main character than the other Disney world characters.

It helps that they did a decent job incorporating Xaldin into the world. Having him feed into Beast's insecurities.

Woulda been nice to see KH's take on Gaston though

Ruvan22 posted...

You wouldn't happen to have a link to the description of dark corridors would you/

This is what the Ultimania said, in the section when discussing world travel:

"There is one more method: using 'corridors of darkness.' There are those who have fallen off the beaten path, not walking the road they should be, and only these people who have a dark or in-between existence can make doorways to these corridors. On rare occasions, those with particularly strong emotions such as hatred can open them, as was the case with individuals like Beast and DiZ. However, you must be careful when coming into contact with so much darkness. Using these corridors too often will lead to you being completely swallowed by the darkness. Sora has used these paths on several occasions, but despite this level of frequency his heart still hasn't been stained with darkness, so you can consider the strength of one's heart as what determines how influential the darkness is.

Using these paths over and over again doesn't concern the King and Riku, though, or the heartless Nobodies. Why doesn't the darkness progressively swallow them, you may ask? There are hidden similarities between the two parties that are discussed in-game."

Of course the "hidden similarities" brought up at the end there is just that they all wear black coats, which ward off the darkness.

Rharyx211 posted...

This is what the Ultimania said, in the section when discussing world travel:

"There is one more method: using 'corridors of darkness.' There are those who have fallen off the beaten path, not walking the road they should be, and only these people who have a dark or in-between existence can make doorways to these corridors. On rare occasions, those with particularly strong emotions such as hatred can open them, as was the case with individuals like Beast and DiZ. However, you must be careful when coming into contact with so much darkness. Using these corridors too often will lead to you being completely swallowed by the darkness. Sora has used these paths on several occasions, but despite this level of frequency his heart still hasn't been stained with darkness, so you can consider the strength of one's heart as what determines how influential the darkness is.

Using these paths over and over again doesn't concern the King and Riku, though, or the heartless Nobodies. Why doesn't the darkness progressively swallow them, you may ask? There are hidden similarities between the two parties that are discussed in-game."

Of course the "hidden similarities" brought up at the end there is just that they all wear black coats, which ward off the darkness.

Ahh interesting - so it really was a "negative" emotion so to speak that helped Beast get to Hollow Bastion (or whereever) and thus help/save Sora.

A bit like the idea of fear in TDKR being used to help motivate Bruce

Yeah, I looked up the quote I was thinking of from the game, and it's Maleficent saying: "When we took the princess from his castle, he apparently followed her here through sheer force of will."

So yeah, just strong emotions. Doesn't outright say it was negative, but he must've been pretty pissed Belle was kidnapped.

Rharyx211 posted...

Yeah, I looked up the quote I was thinking of from the game, and it's Maleficent saying: "When we took the princess from his castle, he apparently followed her here through sheer force of will."

So yeah, just strong emotions. Doesn't outright say it was negative, but he must've been pretty pissed Belle was kidnapped.

Good catch - for some reason I have "guilt over pushing her away only to see her abducted" in my mind, probably at least in part due to theme of the movie... can definitely see anger and guilt driving him, especially from what I read happens in KH2

Rharyx211 posted...

This is what the Ultimania said, in the section when discussing world travel:

"There is one more method: using 'corridors of darkness.' There are those who have fallen off the beaten path, not walking the road they should be, and only these people who have a dark or in-between existence can make doorways to these corridors. On rare occasions, those with particularly strong emotions such as hatred can open them, as was the case with individuals like Beast and DiZ. However, you must be careful when coming into contact with so much darkness. Using these corridors too often will lead to you being completely swallowed by the darkness. Sora has used these paths on several occasions, but despite this level of frequency his heart still hasn't been stained with darkness, so you can consider the strength of one's heart as what determines how influential the darkness is.

Using these paths over and over again doesn't concern the King and Riku, though, or the heartless Nobodies. Why doesn't the darkness progressively swallow them, you may ask? There are hidden similarities between the two parties that are discussed in-game."

Of course the "hidden similarities" brought up at the end there is just that they all wear black coats, which ward off the darkness.

Is that tied to how transportation worked in bbs

Project X Zone kinda obliterates KH and Smash

It's crazy though they think killing off the FF rep was a good idea especially when Kingdom Hearts 2 set the bar and both increased the amount of FInal Fantasy Characters represented but also made them more relevant to the overall plot. Sure, Radiant Garden isn't in Kingdom Hearts 3 but Twilight Town is and yet the best we get is a throwaway line on why we don't see Seifer.

To me, KH2 was the right direction for the FF rep shaping some of the worlds and if we had the level of "world meddling" and villains working together like we did in KH1, I think the series would be in a better spot. Instead the push for original OCs and trying to keep the Disney Worlds pristine (Or in Pixar's case trying to be canon for some reason) felt like it really hurt kH3's creativity.

Noumas posted...

Is that tied to how transportation worked in bbs

Basically. In BbS, they used the "Lanes Between" which act mostly the same way, in that too much exposure would taint your heart with darkness. So they wear their Keyblade armor to protect them.

In Japanese, this connection is more obvious since the Lanes Between are called "corridors of skies" as an obvious partner to "corridors of darkness." The dub went with something more creative that kinda lost the naming convention.

Garioshi posted...

Project X Zone kinda obliterates KH and Smash

Maybe in regards to fanservice. But gameplay and everything else? No, not even close.

Super robot wars the same, but as a pure cross over and game is generally better in my opinion.

Garioshi posted...

Project X Zone kinda obliterates KH and Smash

Is it like that DS game jump shippuden that has goku and Naruto and one piece?