Board 8 > Politics Containment Topic 401: Haley's Vomit

(+) Yeah! (+)

masterplum posted...

Yes

Have you not seen grudges

I dont follow what youre referring to

Jakyl25 posted...

I dont follow what youre referring to

That people can be mad for no reason whatsoever.

Corrik7 posted...

The problem with it is that it full circle sows division.

It's part of our history so it should be taught, hence the magical part.

It creates animosity now for the past.

*shrug*

why does animosity for the past matter

like yeah, I think a bunch of people from the past sucked so what? They did suck, thats just reality. Whats the benefit of pretending they didnt?

lets just be better than the suck-ass past people

Corrik7 posted...

The problem with it is that it full circle sows division.

It's part of our history so it should be taught, hence the magical part.

It creates animosity now for the past.

*shrug*

There is also never going to be a removal of division. Humans are shit and have divided themselves by wealth, lineage, skin color, religion, etc for pretty much ever. Even if you magically removed racism most non-whites would just be divided for other reasons and be discriminated against for those.

Its never going to end unfortunately, but people actively wishing suffering on people different from them should fuck right off the planet because regardless were all humans and everyone should have a right to a decent life and happiness regardless of their skin tone, spiritual beliefs or what pronoun they prefer to use. Thats my feelings on it anyways. As long as nobody is harming others I dont personally care what any of the above are for them and nobody else should either.

Jakyl25 posted...

Ok, now why does it create animosity for the past. Theres a lot of cause and effect between my ancestors were enslaved and Im mad today

You really think people are just mad about what happened in the past without any connection to the sociological reality of the present day? Thats its just an old grudge that would be better off if they didnt know about it?

I think people believe that yes because of the past. I think also people treat African Americans in some cases worse because of the past and the history or otherwise we learn from school or at home.

It's why I said if it all magically disappeared, I believe America would be better off. If parents didn't pass on their racism to their kids. If people didn't blame the past for their position today. Etc. The racial divide honestly doesn't really have to be what it is in this country now.

I see my son falling into so much "passive racism" in his youth that I have to course correct all the time. Just last weekend when watch Save the Last Dance he said something I felt was troubling, and I had to talk to him about it.

Luckily every generation has gotten better and better, but ironically our past is what keeps it alive.

MoogleKupo141 posted...

why does animosity for the past matter

like yeah, I think a bunch of people from the past sucked so what? They did suck, thats just reality. Whats the benefit of pretending they didnt?

lets just be better than the suck-ass past people

Some take that animosity to the past and apply it to the present.

"I dont have any animosity as long as they stay down there" is the real deeper translation that corrik wont mention.

Corrik7 posted...

I think people believe that yes because of the past. I think also people treat African Americans in some cases worse because of the past and the history or otherwise we learn from school or at home.

It's why I said if it all magically disappeared, I believe America would be better off. If parents didn't pass on their racism to their kids. If people didn't blame the past for their position today. Etc. The racial divide honestly doesn't really have to be what it is in this country now.

I see my son falling into so much "passive racism" in his youth that I have to course correct all the time. Just last weekend when watch Save the Last Dance he said something I felt was troubling, and I had to talk to him about it.

Luckily every generation has gotten better and better, but ironically our past is what keeps it alive.

But the past is very responsible for things today. Not just in the slavery sense that we are talking about, but the general poor socioeconomic conditions for EVERYONE outside of the wealthy exist because of the past.

TotallyNotMI posted...

https://streamable.com/r65bw0

austin archer my beloved (even if removing lines to make it generic kinda throws the song off)

furthermore, what the fuck

Leafeon13N posted...

"I dont have any animosity as long as they stay down there" is the real deeper translation that corrik wont mention.

That's your translation not mine. Looking for your phantom racists is all.

Jakyl25 posted...

But the past is very responsible for things today. Not just in the slavery sense that we are talking about, but the general poor socioeconomic conditions for EVERYONE outside of the wealthy exist because of the past.

We should be focusing on wealthy inequality not racism, yes.

We can focus on multiple things at once

While the general wealth gap does impact people of all races, black people face an additional unique handicap in that regard on top of it.

Don't you guys know the famous saying?

"Those who don't learn from the past will definitely never repeat it."

Jakyl25 posted...

We can focus on multiple things at once

While the general wealth gap does impact people of all races, black people face an additional unique handicap in that regard on top of it.

What's the additional handicap? The handicap is wealth inequality. Higher incarceration rates, etc, all boils down to economic inequality.

Corrik7 posted...

We should be focusing on wealthy inequality not racism, yes.

Yes and you are saying to remove teaching of racism.

So people are going to go "oh look at all those poor people in that neighborhood they all share a very noticeable difference that group must be lazy".

It is naive at best but we all know the real reason for the argument you make is just racism.

Corrik wants a world where white people can hate these other groups simply because they are poor, that they happen to disproportionately be other races is just happenstance and no racism whatsoever will ever bake itself into society that way.

Corrik7 posted...

What's the additional handicap? The handicap is wealth inequality. Higher incarceration rates, etc, all boils down to economic inequality.

And where does that economic inequality come from?

(Not to mention things like sentencing disparity and racial profiling that go beyond economic inequality)

Red really likes insulting people to make himself feel superior huh.

Whatever lets you sleep at night

Jakyl25 posted...

And where does that economic inequality come from?

(Not to mention things like sentencing disparity and racial profiling that go beyond economic inequality)

That's the thing. It doesn't matter where it came from. That's there and then. If there was a reason to cause it or not doesn't matter now. What matters now is the inequality. You address the present. Racial profiling has to do with crime rates. Crime rates disproportionately higher because disproportionately minorities are poorer. Etc. It all boils down to that.

Leafeon13N posted...

Yes and you are saying to remove teaching of racism.

So people are going to go "oh look at all those poor people in that neighborhood they all share a very noticeable difference that group must be lazy".

It is naive at best but we all know the real reason for the argument you make is just racism.

I honestly think you might have a few screws loose lol. But, it is the problem with the left and debate. Notice how alt right, racist, and nazi charges have all been tossed out because I at the core said... I like Nikki Haley. Watch the progression of the argument completely.

You keep trying to say what I said in your campaign when not looking at what I actually said. It's because you just want someone to label because you lack the depth and ability to actually just argue your points themself. It's ad hominem of course.

Congratulations for teaching your son to not be an outwardly racist piece of shit, Corrik. Here is the gold star that you want.

Corrik7 posted...

That's the thing. It doesn't matter where it came from. That's there and then. If there was a reason to cause it or not doesn't matter now. What matters now is the inequality. You address the present. Racial profiling has to do with crime rates. Crime rates disproportionately higher because disproportionately minorities are poorer. Etc. It all boils down to that.

Ok so how do you address the disproportionate poverty of minorities without critical race theory

Remember, the people who fought against desegregation in the 50s are still alive and still running the country

man if only someone could go back in time to tell MLK that racism could be cured if he just shut up about it

It wasn't just slavery that caused many of the problems we have today. Let's not forget the Jim Crow era and the rise of the Ku Klux Klan. Are we also supposed to forget Emmitt Till and George Floyd? Martin Luther King Jr? White Supremacy doesn't just disappear if you make everyone forget slavery.

Also I get the feeling anyone saying "Let's forget slavery," are also the ones in favor of confederate monuments and flying the confederate flag. It's possible I'm wrong in that regard, however.

Corrik7 posted...

Great candidate. Most likely has my vote. We will see.

Ironically my super conservative Trumpist father hates Nikki Haley because she took down the confederate flag from the state house.

Peace___Frog posted...

Congratulations for teaching your son to not be an outwardly racist piece of shit, Corrik. Here is the gold star that you want.

Um ok

Jakyl25 posted...

Ok so how do you address the disproportionate poverty of minorities without critical race theory

Easy. You don't. You fix poverty period for everyone. Race doesn't matter.

The country has an utter economic level issue that keeps being exacerbated due to how it compounds.

Corrik7 posted...

Easy. You don't. You fix poverty period for everyone. Race doesn't matter.

The country has an utter economic level issue that keeps being exacerbated due to how it compounds.

Ok so what happens when you do that and over time the inherent racism of America pushes minorities back down to being disproportionately poor?

Like even with that magic solution, minorities are still at the bottom of the socioeconomic landscape, they just maybe arent living as uncomfortably

Youre fine with that discrepancy existing forever as long as no one is suffering?

Jakyl25 posted...

Like even with that magic solution, minorities are still at the bottom of the socioeconomic landscape, they just maybe arent living as uncomfortably

Youre fine with that discrepancy existing forever as long as no one is suffering?

If everyone was magically no longer racist minorities wouldnt be at the bottom of the socioeconomic landscape any more. There would be no preference for race in any situation and eventually all races would probably genetically become one race after enough time passed

But this is a dumb hypothetical being talked about to a random pointless tangent.

Corrik meandered we wouldnt need to talk about anything that happened in the past that was racist if nobody was racist and everyone thought this was an important thing to talk about for some reason

masterplum posted...

If everyone was magically no longer racist minorities wouldnt be at the bottom of the socioeconomic landscape any more. There would be no preference for race in any situation and eventually all races would probably genetically become one race after enough time passed

But this is a dumb hypothetical being talked about to a random pointless tangent.

Corrik meandered we wouldnt need to talk about anything that happened in the past that was racist if nobody was racist and everyone thought this was an important thing to talk about for some reason

The magic solution he's referring to is if we were to solve economic inequality, not if we were able to solve racism. That's Jakyl's point.

masterplum posted...

If everyone was magically no longer racist minorities wouldnt be at the bottom of the socioeconomic landscape any more. There would be no preference for race in any situation

Even this isnt true, because the pre-Snap racism created such a disparity that even in a now colorblind society, minorities would be less qualified for upward moving careers in general

Jakyl25 posted...

Ok so what happens when you do that and over time the inherent racism of America pushes minorities back down to being disproportionately poor?

Racism is being extremely overstated here, especially professionally. You have zero metrics to back this claim up. The poor are pushed down by the environments they are subjected to and by not having money to do better for themselves.

It's again an economic and wealth issue.

Jakyl25 posted...

Even this isnt true, because the pre-Snap racism created such a disparity that even in a now colorblind society, minorities would be less qualified for upward moving careers in general

Except what are minorities at that point? They dont exist. Poor minorities then are exactly 100% equal to poor white people in America or Asian people in Asia or whatever. In fact in a world where everyone snapped to one homogenous race it would be extremely unfair to treat people differently based on their previous race. Imagine being a former poor majority person who gets less privilege because you . Always were a majority person?

But this is why race is only one axis of privilege with rich privilege being the largest. It seems like people sometimes bend over backwards trying to eliminate or reduce racial, sexual, or gender privilege when really it was just economic privilege the entire time

Corrik7 posted...

Racism is being extremely overstated here, especially professionally. You have zero metrics to back this claim up. The poor are pushed down by the environments they are subjected to and by not having money to do better for themselves.

It's again an economic and wealth issue.

Whats your metric to back up racism being overstated? We know that without affirmative action incentives, companies will tend to choose white people over black people with the same resumes

masterplum posted...

Except what are minorities at that point? They dont exist. Poor minorities then are exactly 100% equal to poor white people in America or Asian people in Asia or whatever. In fact in a world where everyone snapped to one homogenous race it would be extremely unfair to treat people differently based on their previous race. Imagine being a former poor majority person who gets less privilege because you . Always were a majority person?

But this is why race is only one axis of privilege with rich privilege being the largest. It seems like people sometimes bend over backwards trying to eliminate or reduce racial, sexual, or gender privilege when really it was just economic privilege the entire time

Can I introduce you to a concept called intersectionality

Jakyl25 posted...

Whats your metric to back up racism being overstated? We know that without affirmative action incentives, companies will tend to choose white people over black people with the same resumes

Are companies choosing white people or are managers choosing people who are like themselves?

I believe it is the latter which is an infinitely harder problem to solve and why some companies try to do blind interviews

masterplum posted...

Except what are minorities at that point? They dont exist. Poor minorities then are exactly 100% equal to poor white people in America or Asian people in Asia or whatever. In fact in a world where everyone snapped to one homogenous race it would be extremely unfair to treat people differently based on their previous race. Imagine being a former poor majority person who gets less privilege because you . Always were a majority person?

But this is why race is only one axis of privilege with rich privilege being the largest. It seems like people sometimes bend over backwards trying to eliminate or reduce racial, sexual, or gender privilege when really it was just economic privilege the entire time

It's a distraction. Race, abortion, gun control, whatever else hot topic. It's all the same. To distract the population from the truth both parties solely exist to make the rich richer. Nothing else.

Jakyl25 posted...

Can I introduce you to a concept called intersectionality

Well duh, but we are talking about magical race free Christmas land

Corrik7 posted...

It's a distraction. Race, abortion, gun control, whatever else hot topic. It's all the same. To distract the population from the truth both parties solely exist to make the rich richer. Nothing else.

Reproductive rights aren't a distraction for the people who are dying because they can't safely get abortions. Gun rights aren't a distraction for the people who have buried their loved ones.

It must be nice to have a life where you can think that.

Corrik7 posted...

It's a distraction. Race, abortion, gun control, whatever else hot topic. It's all the same. To distract the population from the truth both parties solely exist to make the rich richer. Nothing else.

Nah, people have core values. Christian conservatives especially often vote based on religion

What does happen is rich people always protect other rich people however

masterplum posted...

Are companies choosing white people or are managers choosing people who are like themselves?

I believe it is the latter which is an infinitely harder problem to solve and why some companies try to do blind interviews

I believe its a prejudice problem which can even work against white people when they are up for tech jobs against Asian American applicants

SirChris posted...

Reproductive rights aren't a distraction for the people who are dying because they can't safely get abortions. Gun rights aren't a distraction for the people who have buried their loved ones.

It must be nice to have a life where you can think that.

It's absolutely a distraction to those who seek your votes.

So Corrik, lets focus on your issue then! Whats the solution to solve racial-agnostic American poverty?

Is it communism? I feel like it would have to be communism.

welcome to the resistance, comrade

Hey Corrik if your objection is the parties trying to make the rich richer why do you vouch for right wing candidates and policy?

Corrik7 posted...

Racism is being extremely overstated here, especially professionally. You have zero metrics to back this claim up. The poor are pushed down by the environments they are subjected to and by not having money to do better for themselves.

It's again an economic and wealth issue.

What metric would convince you? There are plenty of examples of both profiling and also products/systems that are explicitly not designed with minorities in mind. The idea isn't that each individual instance of racism is overt and catastrophically damaging, but that they accumulate over lifetimes.

masterplum posted...

Nah, people have core values. Christian conservatives especially often vote based on religion

What does happen is rich people always protect other rich people however

It's a distraction to obscure the truth from the voters. Those seeking the votes could care less beyond the main goal of being elected. They use hot topics to differentiate themselves and divide the populace and keep them busy on those topics while they accomplish their main goal.

It's amazing after how many years the poor and working class hasn't risen up by now with the absolutely amazing gap between the rich and the poor. And they don't because of the control of making people think they are making a difference or not on these Flashpoint topics.

LightningStrikes posted...

Hey Corrik if your objection is the parties trying to make the rich richer why do you vouch for right wing candidates and policy?

They have two philosophies of how to make the rich richer. Republican philosophy generally errs towards my family more while the Democrat philosophy doesn't. They both are just doing it in different ways.

With no one willing to break the two party system and look out for the interests of the poor, it's usually just choosing the lesser of two evils. Unless someone's stances or core values are enough to overtake the general difference of my families well being, it usually is a republican choice at the end of the day.