Poll of the Day > Anyone else realize the tobacco industry is actually pretty evil?

(+) Yeah! (+)

Like, they profit off of people's addictions, basically making money off of the illnesses and cancers tobacco causes.

so...

why are the new generations of American "activists" being butthurt about problems that don't matter and care more about themselves and whether people are hurting their precious little feelings when tobacco users are trapped in a difficult to break cycle that leads to an inevitable death, all while the tobacco industry profits off their decline in health. Priorities, man...

The fucked up part is that it doesn't need to be that way, there is so many added chemicals that do the real harm. Nicotine isn't even bad for you (smoking it still will hurt you though) and if they just put straight tobacco in people probably wouldn't die so much from it, not sure why they need all the extra shit in it that does the bulk of the damage.

Starting smoking is probably the worst decision in my life

Is there an industry that isn't evil?

papercup posted...

Is there an industry that isn't evil?

Well this industry I'd say is a lot more evil than others

Evil is really the only word to describe them, but they're only doing their jobs in the systems we have set up.

Which is to be as evil as possible or be replaced by someone better at being evil.

ANAKAfire posted...

making money off of the illnesses and cancers tobacco causes

I think it's the medical industry that does that, actually.

papercup posted...

Is there an industry that isn't evil?

Yes, considering there are socially-conscious organizations and, in theory, some industries that only advance a public good.

Plus some industries are more evil than others. The alcohol industry is probably the most evil by far, given that alcohol is tied to nearly half of all domestic abuse, around a third of all car crashes, a key component in many sexual violence cases (which has also been used to discourage victims from going to the police),and linked to at least a quarter of all violent crimes. And that's before you even get into the health impacts, addictive nature, and the role in systemic poverty.

The amount of evil in the tobacco industry is barely a drop in the bucket compared to alcohol, yet very few people talk about doing anything with the alcohol industry despite the furor over less-damaging industries or even complaints about things that largely result from the downstream impact of alcohol.

Prohibition was a bad thing, zeus, did you not learn that?

ANAKAfire posted...

why are the new generations of American "activists" being butthurt about problems that don't matter and care more about themselves and whether people are hurting their precious little feelings when tobacco users are trapped in a difficult to break cycle that leads to an inevitable death, all while the tobacco industry profits off their decline in health. Priorities, man...

The activists don't care because the tobacco companies are so evil.

A huge part of activism revolves around people trying to raise their social status within a group and show that they're one of the true, die-hard members.

That means that you have to spend your energy being an activist over concerns that are specific to whatever political tribe you're part of. There's no point in telling everyone how evil tobacco companies are, because virtually everyone thinks tobacco companies are bad. If you say that you think they're bad, that doesn't prove anything. Instead, you have to get angry about something that only a tiny group of online weirdos care about.

Muscles posted...

Prohibition was a bad thing, zeus, did you not learn that?

No, it was an unpopular thing. But so are countless other laws. However, unlike many current laws, trying to taper down on alcohol actually has a social good if it was done properly, which the original attempt was not.

Right now, there are a lot of common-sense alcohol control measures that could curb most of the problems:

1) Limit consumption to point of sale in a controlled setting.

2) Track alcohol consumption to ID potential problems

3) Have all alcohol profits be used to pay for rehab and detox programs

If alcohol was properly managed, we could scale the consumption down to the point where the social harms might be negligible and an outright ban would be unnecessary.

It will never not be funny to me that the tobacco industry is also responsible for all the anti-smoking ads that talk about how evil they are

They are good its listed for only 18 or 21 year olds but they still manage to break the advisory and make sure kids get their cut

Count_Drachma posted...

No, it was an unpopular thing. But so are countless other laws. However, unlike many current laws, trying to taper down on alcohol actually has a social good if it was done properly, which the original attempt was not.

Right now, there are a lot of common-sense alcohol control measures that could curb most of the problems:

1) Limit consumption to point of sale in a controlled setting.

2) Track alcohol consumption to ID potential problems

3) Have all alcohol profits be used to pay for rehab and detox programs

If alcohol was properly managed, we could scale the consumption down to the point where the social harms might be negligible and an outright ban would be unnecessary.

And do you plan on regulating the sale of yeast? Because unless you do that, home brewing is just too easy to be able to meaningfully control the production and consumption of alcohol.

Count_Drachma posted...

No, it was an unpopular thing. But so are countless other laws. However, unlike many current laws, trying to taper down on alcohol actually has a social good if it was done properly, which the original attempt was not.

Right now, there are a lot of common-sense alcohol control measures that could curb most of the problems:

1) Limit consumption to point of sale in a controlled setting.

2) Track alcohol consumption to ID potential problems

3) Have all alcohol profits be used to pay for rehab and detox programs

If alcohol was properly managed, we could scale the consumption down to the point where the social harms might be negligible and an outright ban would be unnecessary.

Dudes really out here saying alcohol is bad because it causes car accidents then goes on to say people shouldn't be drinking at home and only at point of sale

What corporation isn't evil?

Yellow posted...

Evil is really the only word to describe them, but they're only doing their jobs in the systems we have set up.

Which is to be as evil as possible or be replaced by someone better at being evil.

Yeah, the only thing they have done though is do everything in their power to make tobacco look as good as possible and used money to leverage to ensure it remains legal.

Shit for years before they had to put the label on packs about the dangers they would constantly say they felt it was not damaging to human health. Pretty damn bad when they sang the tune of "Smoking is perfectly safe in my opinion!" For decades even as studies were showing the damage it did for years.

I've known that since I was a child.

The thing that really gets me is lately I've been hearing a lot of gambling ads and they always end with "have a problem call this number!" at the end and it always annoys me because anyone who hears that ad and goes "oh wow I'm hyped to throw my money away!" has a problem. Literally everyone they are aiming at with their ads has a problem.

Ive always been aware of how fucked up it is. Absolutely boggles my mind that with all we know about how awful smoking is for you, there are people who still do it.

rexcrk posted...

Ive always been aware of how fucked up it is. Absolutely boggles my mind that with all we know about how awful smoking is for you, there are people who still do it.

It's the most addictive thing I've done. Longest ive ever gone without is 2 months. And even then I'd have an occasional puff from a friend's cigg. I've suffered a few other addictions all far easier to walk away from

When you are 14 you are old enough to know better but too young to care.

Sufferedphoneix posted...

When you are 14 you are old enough to know better but too young to care.

Reminds me of the song "New World Man"

BlackScythe0 posted...

The thing that really gets me is lately I've been hearing a lot of gambling ads and they always end with "have a problem call this number!" at the end and it always annoys me because anyone who hears that ad and goes "oh wow I'm hyped to throw my money away!" has a problem. Literally everyone they are aiming at with their ads has a problem.

Gambling is not always a problem, if you are the type to blow say $100-200 a year on gambling it likely doesn't become an issue. It's basically like saying everyone that enjoys a beer is an alcoholic.

My stepdad is a huge fan of betting on sports but he never bets huge amounts so he loses like $10-20 a game at most. He can easily afford that so even if he blows $200-300 a year on gambling it doesn't affect him. Someone that is losing say $5000-10000 a year on gambling has a major problem and it could destroy their lives financially unless they are making mad money.

Corporations like to think that they aren't evil. But if it comes to a choice between evil and profit they will choose profit 99.9% of the time. And at some point in their lifespan most of them will have to make that choice.

Google knew that and made the 'don't be evil' corporate rule...but they aren't any different at the end of the day.

As far as tobacco companies in particular, I dunno. Would people find a different fix without them? Probably. Would it be better? Maybe. But frankly a lot of people are too stupid and self-destructive to save and I have trouble getting worked up about it. It doesn't make the tobacco companies any less evil, but IMO they aren't greatly separated from the rest of corporations.

Monopoman posted...

Gambling is not always a problem

It is always a problem since the entire basis of it is that you give money to stuff rigged against you.

BlackScythe0 posted...

It is always a problem since the entire basis of it is that you give money to stuff rigged against you.

All entertainment involves spending money on something that will most likely not yield a return. The healthiest way to look at gambling is as entertainment: However much you spend on it is the cost of that entertainment, and any winnings are just a bonus. The problem arises when you start treating it as a viable money-making endeavour (which is just plain misinformed) or you become addicted and lose your sense of how much you're spending (not entirely unlike developing a tolerance to a drug).