Board 8 > Star Trek Mafia - Topic 11: A Few Photons Never Hurt Anybody

(+) Yeah! (+)

EDumey posted...

Ben let me ask you to look from my perspective here.

You're asking me to assume Han is scum. I'm unwilling to budge on Lea. I literally don't think it's possible for it to be her.

For me to follow your theory, I have to believe that both JC and Sultan are scum.

How do I believe that JC is scum now that I know for sure that Ulti wasn't BP.

Would you buy a Han/JC/Sultan scum team in my shoes?

Your perspective is.... impossible to me and is why I now see you as scum. Tragic, I know.

Lets see though, lets really dig deep.

I can accept a fringe case where there are two scum.

I do not think JC is scum by any means. OH, that reminds me that JC scanned me as not moving last night. That means nothing to you???? Holy hell lol.

TheSultanOfSlam posted...

So you were I the camp that Ulti made the save both nights and Ctes is town then?

No. I was in the camp of being the one fool in the game that believe Ulti was actually BP and that scum shot him, so I didn't think Ulti was a legitimate target to be killed last night.

I definitely think Ulti saved JC the previous night rather than scum choosing to no kill.
Night 1 is tough to determine if they shot Crescent or shot Death for Ctes to claim. I am definitely not ruling out Ctes, and still think he could be scum.

In some world where I'm very very wrong and Sultan fooled me really good, I do accept the Han/Sultan team.

But like, that still leaves Han as scum and that is why I am killing Han today

We havent actually heard who Ctes roleblocked (?) yet, so that could be interesting.

EDumey posted...

And Sultan AFK not at deadline. Isn't that interesting?

I probably would have still ended on walls Here. I did not see the Han argument yesterday and yall didn't wanna consider Ctes for some reason.

EDumey posted...

No. I was in the camp of being the one fool in the game that believe Ulti was actually BP and that scum shot him, so I didn't think Ulti was a legitimate target to be killed last night.

I definitely think Ulti saved JC the previous night rather than scum choosing to no kill.
Night 1 is tough to determine if they shot Crescent or shot Death for Ctes to claim. I am definitely not ruling out Ctes, and still think he could be scum.

!!! OBJECTION

You said that Lea thought this too. So two fools or just a big lie?

PunishedBen posted...

Your perspective is.... impossible to me and is why I now see you as scum. Tragic, I know.

Lets see though, lets really dig deep.

I can accept a fringe case where there are two scum.

I do not think JC is scum by any means. OH, that reminds me that JC scanned me as not moving last night. That means nothing to you???? Holy hell lol.

That's the problem. I don't think JC is scum either, which is why I can't accept your theory that scum would have just hopped on over and killed Han if given the chance. I think You and Ctes were already sitting on the Han lynch, and I guess it's either just you two, or Sultan was AFK and couldn't move. I have been assuming this whole game for it to be a four man scum team, but if you're volunteering that it's only two, then that makes it even easier for my perspective to make sense.

Apparently Wallz not moving didn't mean anything to JC yesterday either.

We talked about Ctes and the possible Roleblock setup to explain him moving. So it's totally possible that Ctes sent in your kill last night just in case JC tracked him and Ctes could say he used his Roleblock because of the suspicion he got yesterday. But JC didn't wait for Ctes to claim his action first, so we'll never know.

PunishedBen posted...

!!! OBJECTION

You said that Lea thought this too. So two fools or just a big lie?

No? Lea was the one that said Ulti might get shot. I was the one that thought it wasn't likely.
EDumey posted...

Lea did bring up Ulti as well as a possible kill, but I thought there was no reason to doubt BP still. Call me naive to still believe it, but

EDumey posted...

No. I was in the camp of being the one fool in the game that believe Ulti was actually BP and that scum shot him, so I didn't think Ulti was a legitimate target to be killed last night.

I definitely think Ulti saved JC the previous night rather than scum choosing to no kill.
Night 1 is tough to determine if they shot Crescent or shot Death for Ctes to claim. I am definitely not ruling out Ctes, and still think he could be scum.

Obellisk posted...

As a hologram you also have a 1 use bulletproof that works the same way as your own Doc Save, this will damage your holo-emitter and you will be susceptible to any future killing action

What? So you don't think the no kill or night 1 was breaking his holo-emitter?

##vote:Dumey

EDumey posted...

No? Lea was the one that said Ulti might get shot. I was the one that thought it wasn't likely.

Mmm. It wasnt in the first post about this so I didnt see it when cross referencing

EDumey posted...

I also asked her who she thought might be killed. I thought she and I were possibly being kept alive because Ulti was floating us as a potential scum team. I thought Sultan might be the kill because a lot of people seem to not be willing to suspect him. Lea thought one of Sultan or me for similar reasons actually, that not many people had me on their short list.

TheSultanOfSlam posted...

Obellisk posted...

As a hologram you also have a 1 use bulletproof that works the same way as your own Doc Save, this will damage your holo-emitter and you will be susceptible to any future killing action

What? So you don't think the no kill or night 1 was breaking his holo-emitter?

##vote:Dumey

Wait

.....

I didnt see that. Did nobody see that

Sultan you might want to slow down the voting for Dumey please just in case

Han and Lea are waiting in the wings and we have no idea what their perspectives are and this could be MYLO.

TheSultanOfSlam posted...

Obellisk posted...

As a hologram you also have a 1 use bulletproof that works the same way as your own Doc Save, this will damage your holo-emitter and you will be susceptible to any future killing action

What? So you don't think the no kill or night 1 was breaking his holo-emitter?

##vote:Dumey

Two things.

1. I will respectfully ask you to unvote so scum can't hammer, please. Just putting your vote on the record is good enough.
2. I will be completely honest, I didn't actually read the full flip. Just that Ulti was Town Doctor, not that he also had a BP. Give me one second to recalibrate now that you've brought that to my attention.

Did neither of you guys read the flip???

holy shit sultan unvote

To be 100% honest that's a slight positive in Ben's favor from my perspective, that he didn't realize it either.

#unvote

but like come on yinz don't see this?!

I have a theory.

I have no idea whether I should take stock in this theory but I think it would actually explain everything.

Scum has some kind of roleblocker. They just havent needed to use it. Sultan is scum and his claim is to get away with night kills. If nobody else has to move, people can claim whatever the fuck they want and my scan is effectively useless or at worst confirms scum. The claim was planned after I claimed because Sultan has the unblockable kill.

Once Crescent died, there was literally no actual need for an RB on anyone because they thought they could just kill Ulti. So they just shoot Ulti with Sultan but his one-use BP kicks in N3. N1 was a correct save on Crescent.

Scum used Sultan to completely neuter my role and used it to misdirect town.

I read town doctor (with no mention of bulletproof in role title) and stopped. Hilarious stuff that I dont think means a lot because it was hard to see

After a short moment to think, I don't think this changes too much about how I think night actions went down. If scum shot Ulti, they wouldn't be notified that he only had one BP to use on himself, right? They would just assume that he was fulltime BP as he claimed. And therefore wouldn't have wasted another shot on him in case they could strongman him or something.

Would definitely like other people's input on that though to see if I'm just not used to these kind of roles showing up in B8.

TheSultanOfSlam posted...

#unvote

but like come on yinz don't see this?!

I see it but I want to be careful.

My vote is in theory on Dumey still yes.

Also I think a really important part of my theory is that it explains the weak scumteam

Chaeix posted...

I have a theory.

I have no idea whether I should take stock in this theory but I think it would actually explain everything.

Scum has some kind of roleblocker. They just havent needed to use it. Sultan is scum and his claim is to get away with night kills. If nobody else has to move, people can claim whatever the fuck they want and my scan is effectively useless or at worst confirms scum. The claim was planned after I claimed because Sultan has the unblockable kill.

Once Crescent died, there was literally no actual need for an RB on anyone because they thought they could just kill Ulti. So they just shoot Ulti with Sultan but his one-use BP kicks in N3. N1 was a correct save on Crescent.

Scum used Sultan to completely neuter my role and used it to misdirect town.

Would a scum team that failed to shoot Ulti N3, shoot him again N4? Or are you suggesting they had a second strongman or something? That seems risky if you're suggesting that scum just thought his BP was one-time only and took a second shot.

EDumey posted...

After a short moment to think, I don't think this changes too much about how I think night actions went down. If scum shot Ulti, they wouldn't be notified that he only had one BP to use on himself, right? They would just assume that he was fulltime BP as he claimed. And therefore wouldn't have wasted another shot on him in case they could strongman him or something.

Would definitely like other people's input on that though to see if I'm just not used to these kind of roles showing up in B8.

They are typically one use, but i agree it would be a huge risk to shoot Ulti a second time after knowing that the first one failed. Or every even night the kill can be unblockable.

Really, any scum power is possible. I agree that nothing about this revelation changes my read either. Not even on you or lea for "not realizing" Ulti is BP. And it shouldnt affect your read of me. Scum knew the truth and thus could lie

EDumey posted...

Would a scum team that failed to shoot Ulti N3, shoot him again N4? Or are you suggesting they had a second strongman or something? That seems risky if you're suggesting that scum just thought his BP was one-time only and took a second shot.

idk man, all we know is they had the guts to shoot him twice

he wouldnt have died if he was shot once >_>

like imagine youre Ulti anyways, you havent claimed doc yet (he claimed d3 right). he saves crescent and she gets shot so scum doesnt have unblockable anymore. obviously thats when he BPs if he still has it. and it fits with a scum paradigm where theyre trying to avoid having to roleblock someone

like you have to imagine Chris trying to pull some 4d chess shit here as well and this fits the bill

I just got home and I'm going to be busy the rest of the night, but after a quick skim where I read basically nothing, let's consider the facts:

1. Scum never shot Ulti until this past night
2. Scum has a role scanner who got Ulti's full role

Either way, I think this confirms beyond a doubt that JC was the shot N3.

PunishedBen posted...

They are typically one use, but i agree it would be a huge risk to shoot Ulti a second time after knowing that the first one failed. Or every even night the kill can be unblockable.

Really, any scum power is possible. I agree that nothing about this revelation changes my read either. Not even on you or lea for "not realizing" Ulti is BP. And it shouldnt affect your read of me. Scum knew the truth and thus could lie

The thing it changes is how much I buy JC. With me believing that Ulti was just a normal doctor, I thought that the save on JC is the only thing that made sense for the lack of night kill. Now that it could have been scum shooting the vest, JC is technically back on the table.

lol, the exact opposite conclusion of Han. hmmmm.

Did no one read Ulit's flip??

EDumey posted...

lol, the exact opposite conclusion of Han. hmmmm.

Han coming in and not entertaining Ulti being shot twice is uh not good

like I will remind everyone I am unsure how much stock to put into this Sultan theory yet and am still looking at all possibilities. Actively closing a door is a no no

What's funny is i think JC and Ctes are town for how they played and how they claimed the roles. I dont even need proof of how the actions went down at this point. I guess I could do a bunch of work and try to show examples explaining why....

Ulti pretty much had to be shot twice right?

Oh I read the role wrong.

Yeah, let me actually think about this for some time lol

But we can assume Scum never shoots Ulti twice without knowing his role for sure

TheSultanOfSlam posted...

Did no one read Ulit's flip??

Yes, it just makes more sense for Ulti to have been shot N3 after his claim.

Why are you so insistent it was N1?

TheSultanOfSlam posted...

Ulti pretty much had to be shot twice right?

Yeah, that's the read.

Which also means he had to be scanned at some point.

HanOfTheNekos posted...

2. Scum has a role scanner who got Ulti's full role

How so?

PunishedBen posted...

How so?

Man, imagine if Ben was Town, then he wouldn't ask such a obvious questions.

Ulti being scanned N1 wouldnt make sense because otherwise scum would have shot him N2. It was obvious I was supposed to scan BCT so it makes sense that scum could consider actually using a night action that night.

I feel 1-use bulletproof is a common enough assumption.

Especially in my world where scum can only win by shooting Ulti so they risk it lol

Like otherwise Ulti would be unkillable. That is a bannable offense of a role. Cop on HAN

Yes even the most basic of balance suggests that Ulti's BP has to be 1-use. Now that I am actually thinking about it.

PunishedBen posted...

I feel 1-use bulletproof is a common enough assumption.

Especially in my world where scum can only win by shooting Ulti so they risk it lol

This is explicitly false. How many one-time bulletproofs have you seen to make this even vaguely considered?

Chaeix posted...

Ulti being scanned N1 wouldnt make sense because otherwise scum would have shot him N2. It was obvious I was supposed to scan BCT so it makes sense that scum could consider actually using a night action that night.

Ulti could have been scanned N1 - if Scum know Crescent is power, and if you are Town, they might assume Crescent is more important. Or read her as cop scanning you.

But... If their unblockable goes through Ulti, then they might not use it on Crescent.

That's going to be something to consider.

PunishedBen posted...

Like otherwise Ulti would be unkillable. That is a bannable offense of a role. Cop on HAN

AND YET YOU SAID NOTHING ABOUT IT YESTERDAY

Ben, you could outright claim Scum and it would be less obvious than you are right now.

But Ulti was bussed N2 and no way scum would scan town BCT unless they knew the bus drive was happening. They would go directly for Ulti and get a BCT scan back.

The only way they get info is if Ctes is a willing corroborator. And because they assumed I would scan BCT, they get the bonus of looking like they get to frame me?

Cause like I have to admit that I was moved to Ulti, but that doesnt work with the game state. If I knew Ultis full role, I would be a scum role scanner that wouldnt coexist with Sultans role. Sultan cant exist if its a different kind of scan. So unless you believe Sultan and I are scumbuddies, I cant be scum.

Sultan/ctes anyone?

1- ctes
2- EDumey
3- Han
4- JC
5- Lea
6- PunishedBen (BCT)
7- Sultan
8. Ulti

And let's say Ulti lived and no one died last night. After mislynch today....

1- ctes
2- EDumey
3- Han
4- JC
5- Lea
6- PunishedBen (BCT)

That's 3v3. Scum wins. Shooting Ulti was worth all of the risk.

Get dismantled, Han

god Im probably so far off base and dead town chat is probably rolling in their graves but on the off chance Im piecing it together, hi friends Im doing my best

Anyway, I'm gone. Tipsy and have to watch shows so not worth talking about things without thinking them through right now.