Current Events > This is why i dont understand why TP is so many people's favorite Zelda game.

(+) Yeah! (+)

https://youtu.be/7be0Bviw2-k?t=765

At the timestamp (12:45 in case it doesn't work), he lists everything you have to do before entering the first dungeon.

Dont get me wrong. I'm not saying a Zelda dungeon should have to have a dungeon early on. Majora's Mask is my favorite, and you'll be playing the game a while before you reach the first dungeon in that game, too.

But in Majora's Mask, there are so many things to explore and areas you can visit before going to that dungeon. In TP, you have a list of things to do, and the game will not let you go anywhere else or do any other things, except for the things that the video creator lists, and in that order. And the whole game is pretty much like this. There is no freedom in Twilight Princess.

Probably because true form Midna is the most waifu ever

It has a slow open, but it's fantastic once it gets going.

Irony posted...

Probably because true form Midna is the most waifu ever

Hold on a second there, Jack.
You got the right idea, but the wrong form.

It seems a lot more popular on Reddit than here. Maybe because theyre younger and TP was their first Zelda game. But I agree.

TP has my favorite dungeons and boss fights

Turbam posted...

Hold on a second there, Jack.
You got the right idea, but the wrong form.

Get out

Twilight Princess was awful. Only 3d Zelda Id recommend avoiding.

Nothing is done in a way worth engaging with. Total snoozefest.

Just the Zelda cycle making another turn.

Yeah the beginning of the game is pretty limited, but that's only part of the game. It never does open up like the other 3D Zelda games do either, but I don't think that's a bad thing. Linearity is mostly fine.

It's not my favorite, but I can understand why others might consider it theirs.

Double hookshot ftw

Played TP once. Couldn't tell you anything about it other than you can be a wolf. No desire to ever play it again

OoT, WW, SS, LttP, and probably some of the handheld Zeldas that I've naver had the chance to play also have a strict list of things you gotta do before you can enter the first dungeon.

Irony posted...

Get out

H*ck no

Heartomaton posted...

OoT, WW, SS, LttP, and probably some of the handheld Zeldas that I've naver had the chance to play also have a strict list of things you gotta do before you can enter the first dungeon.

OoT - find the sword, buy a shield.
ALttP - make your way to and through the castle at the beginning. After that, you're free to go on to the first dungeon.

^ both of these can be done in less than 10 minutes without using any speedrun techniques.

You have a case for Wind Waker. Idk, it's just that none of the tasks feel as grueling as TP (no goat-herding, no catching fish for a cat, no kids saying "Woooow, Link, you know how to swing a sword! You're so amazing!!!").

Nobody I know lists Skyward Sword as their favorite.

I assume anyone that says SS is their favorite is just an AI posting

Irony posted...

I assume anyone that says SS is their favorite is just an AI posting

I agree. I think SS is a mile better than TP though.

Shut the fuck up AI

It was good but not great. Still better than Skyward Sword.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


I agree, Skyward Sword fucking sucked a LOT.

Twilight Princess is just PURE suck. Ugly suck, too.

Turbam posted...

You got the right idea, but the wrong form.

No, he's got the right one.

God_of_6strings posted...

OoT - find the sword, buy a shield.
ALttP - make your way to and through the castle at the beginning. After that, you're free to go on to the first dungeon. And you can explore like 60% of the map before that.

^ both of these can be done in less than 10 minutes without using any speedrun techniques.

They still fall under your TP claim of not having freedom. Get the sword and shield as fast as you want or as slowly as you can stand in OoT, you're still not free to explore or doing anything besides that first dungeon.

And yes, you can explore more than half the LttP map before the first dungeon, but exploring is about the extent of your freedom there. You're not going to actually be able to do much.

I also doubt you can actually get through the LttP castle and intro in less that 10 minutes without any sort of speedrunning tactics, but I haven't actually tried or researched that, so I can't say for sure.

You have a case for Wind Waker. Idk, it's just that none of the tasks feel as grueling as TP (no goat-herding, no catching fish for a cat, no kids saying "Woooow, Link, you know how to swing a sword! You're so amazing!!!").

I think you also have to include that stealth trip to the Forbidden Fortress as part of the intro, because I don't say it counts as an actual dungeon until the second visit later on, as there's no boss and you don't have any options besides stealth because you don't even have the sword you had to go through Orca's training to get.

Nobody I know lists Skyward Sword as their favorite.

It's someone, somewhere's favorite. It's impossible for it not to be, just because of individual tastes and circumstances.

Turbam posted...

Hold on a second there, Jack.
You got the right idea, but the wrong form.

^^^^

Turbam posted...

Hold on a second there, Jack.
You got the right idea, but the wrong form.

No.

Heartomaton posted...

yes, you can explore more than half the LttP map before the first dungeon, but exploring is about the extent of your freedom there. You're not going to actually be able to do much.

You can get several items, including the Ice Rod, the bug net, and a bottle. Probably a heart piece or two as well.

I also doubt you can actually get through the LttP castle and intro in less that 10 minutes without any sort of speedrunning tactics, but I haven't actually tried or researched that, so I can't say for sure.

You absolutely can. It's in the video I posted in the OP.

So many people's favorite? I think you have some shitty metrics there TC. Not many consider it the best of them all.

Jerry_Hellyeah posted...

Twilight Princess was awful. Only 3d Zelda Id recommend avoiding.

Nothing is done in a way worth engaging with. Total snoozefest.

Not when Skyward Sword exists is any reality that TP is the worst. It has the best dungeons of the series.

Not watching that and I love TP. I'm not part of the younger crowd either.

God_of_6strings posted...

Probably a heart piece or two as well.

You can find enough to have an entire extra heart container before Eastern Palace lol

OP-In every Zelda from the 3rd onward you ended up with more and more restrictions before you entered the dungeon.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


That's fucking absurd considering just how slow and arduous Okami is at the start. This post makes no sense.

I'd like.to go back and replay it without a wiimote

Lil_Bit83 posted...

OP-In every Zelda from the 3rd onward you ended up with more and more restrictions before you entered the dungeon.

But you usually have a lot of freedom to go other places and do other things first -- barring Wind Waker, but at least the tasks aren't as grueling as TP. And Skyward Sword, but I don't see a contingent of people listing SS as their favorite.

Also, a point I made later in the OP, was that TP has strict restrictions through pretty much the whole game. You eventually get some freedom in Wind Waker.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


Cool just beat a 40+ hour game filled with unskippable cutscenes so you can play it again and skip it all. Makes perfect sense.

TP HD had a much brisker pace with faster text and improvements to stuff like climbing and the mag boots, making it not take as long.

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This topic is about TP and the game withholding the ability to be open and free form like the others. You came in and said the beginning was too boring and went to...a game with arguably a worse and slower start than TP. Cool, NG+ let's you skip it, but in reference to this topic if one was to just start up both games, TP would be considered lightning fast compared to Okami.

For reference, I've tried to play Okami numerous times. It is just far, too, slow. It takes hours to get to the first real dungeon, filled with dialogue you can't skip and long cut scenes. It stops me before I even get to the dungeon. It's just too slow.

God_of_6strings posted...

You can get several items, including the Ice Rod, the bug net, and a bottle. Probably a heart piece or two as well.

So not much.

You absolutely can. It's in the video I posted in the OP.

I'll just take your word for it then.

The thing about overly-long and complicated intros is that it usually comes into play as a negative on repeat playthroughs; not something you really think about all that much the first time, but it can be a real motivation dampener the second time and beyond. It's why so many people are eager to mod out the Skyrim / Fallout 3 / Fallout 4 intros and just drop you into the action after creating your character.

The problem with TP's intro isn't just that it's lengthy, it's also needlessly complicated. Think of a game intro as a day at the amusement park. Everything between waking up in the morning and stepping through the gates to go have fun is tedium that you're forced to endure to get to the good stuff: picking out your clothes for the day, making an itinerary, driving to the park, waiting in line to get in, etc. A well-designed game streamlines its intro as much as possible to get you through the gates faster, while a game that doesn't take this into consideration makes you feel like you're stuck waiting in line all that much longer.

Since LttP has already been brought up, I'll cite it as an example of how to keep things running smoothly; because not only is it short, it's simple. Get into the castle, save the princess, escape the castle; in and out in 15 minutes, 20 tops. I've honestly blotted from my memory the vast majority of the roadblocks TP throws up between starting the game and the stepping-through-the-gates moment of arriving at Hyrule Field (being forced to sloooooowly follow the monkey with a lantern through the poison fog is one memory my brain sadly refused to omit), but it's considerably more involved than LttP. When the memory of all these complicated and arguably-unnecessary steps starts piling up, psychologically it'll wear you down and start the game off on the wrong foot.

Incidentally, I have no interest in defending, say, OoT in this regard; I never particularly cared for it's intro either, although TP is still far and away peak OoT formula in this regard (and that's certainly not a compliment). WW has a lengthy intro as well, but at least helps mitigate it with a fun / charming art style and cast of characters (but even then I'd still find myself sighing in exasperation about halfway through the Forbidden Fortress).

Twilight Princess is alright

Turbam posted...

Hold on a second there, Jack.
You got the right idea, but the wrong form.

Wut?

Because my idea of fun is not based on how quickly you can get to a dungeon.

Last real zelda game

i don't remember TP ever being "so many people's favorite Zelda game"

When it gets going, it has its moments, but holy shit the opening is so damn slow that I don't see myself ever playing it again.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


Thinking TP is too slow to start and Okami isn't is, yes. That's why I said it.

shitty game with a real ugly artstyle