Current Events > TLJ ruined my interest in Star Wars for quite some time *spoilers*

(+) Yeah! (+)

BurmesePenguin posted...

One of the things I remember from TLJ is that there is a clear suspicion of a traitor. I don't remember if it's said specifically, but it's clearly played off that way.

Can you point to some lines that suggest this? Because if you go back to message boards at the time. acting as if this is fan guess. IF their was plot of a spy what was she doing to fish them out?

why is it that long time Star Wars fans aren't allowed to dislike the Disney films without being called a racist/bigot?

I haven't seen the movie since opening day at the theater so no. I just specifically remember having a feeling of a spy being an issue. At some points I thought Holdo was the spy and I think the movie intended that red herring.

Beveren_Rabbit posted...

why is it that long time Star Wars fans aren't allowed to dislike the Disney films without being called a racist/bigot?

Toonstrack must be on Disneys payroll because he goes out of his way to defend everything they do.

cjsdowg posted...

And he STOPPED Running . HE made the choice to stop running before he knew Rey was in trouble. HE didn't kill innocent people. Before he new who Rey was, he tried to stop a random person from being mugged. Literally not selfish.

The point was he wasn't a part of the rebel cause. He obviously wasn't a bad person. But he was not a hero yet. He had fear. Msybe selfish is the wrong word bur it doesn't change that TLJ completed his transition into being a bold hero fighting for an actual cause when he had no cause before.

He was a credible villain in TFA you can think he could have bene surpass. But like I said from the start he was Drakken.

All he does in TFA is yell and give threats and orders. Again, there's a role there, but thats all his role is. Hed not a leader, and he's not a fighter, and he could never lead the first order.

So you think the FO, assumed that they were just going to keep going until they run out of gas without trying something at all. No military would ever assume that.

Thats literally exactly what happened. They thought that the resistance was panicking, trying to get everyone off the ship while they blew up the other transports. The FO had lost already, they just didn't know it yet. They needed to weed out the traitor, THEN kamikaze the ship and get to a distant location. Of course the traitor ended up being not on the shjp, but my point remains.

No there wasn't. There was not some side plot about a trader.

Yes there was.

Derwood posted...

Toonstrack must be on Disneys payroll because he goes out of his way to defend everything they do.

Who have I called a bigot? And your response has nothing to do with the commenr you were responding to.

The movies just good. Has nothing to do with Disney.

cjsdowg posted...

Can you point to some lines that suggest this? Because if you go back to message boards at the time. acting as if this is fan guess. IF their was plot of a spy what was she doing to fish them out?

Rewatch the movie. You can even find clips. There is a very clear suspicion of a traitor because the first order was reading all of their moves. At one point Poe suspects holdo is the traitor, which the audience is also deliberately led to suspect may he the case.

Its revealed the actual traitor was DJ who was feeding all of their information he got from Finn and rose back to the FO.

In a hundreds-long topic dogpiling on a six-year-old movie, there's an irony to people musing about how people defending the movie are the ones with the problem.

Holdo was more an unwitting asset, bc her abhorrent leadership got 90% of the resistance killed.

lilORANG posted...

Holdo was more an unwitting asset, bc her abhorrent leadership got 90% of the resistance killed.

No?

They killed 90% of the resistance in TFA with Starkiller base.

When TLJ starts they are already running on fumes. Holdos actions are the only reason the FO didn't have a complete victory that day.

I agree.TLJ killed all interest for me. It was that bad.

I watched RoS but I didn't care about anything at that point. The whole trilogy was complete nonsense.

CrestedTax posted...

I agree.TLJ killed all interest for me. It was that bad.

Lol you definitely watched the shows and continue to.

Idk why people after 6 years are still trying to convince folks they lost all interest in the brand. If you lost all interest yall wouldn't still be talking about it XD

Toonstrack posted...

No?

They killed 90% of the resistance in TFA with Starkiller base.

When TLJ starts they are already running on fumes. Holdos actions are the only reason the FO didn't have a complete victory that day.

Nah. The FO took out all the escape pod transports. This only happened bc she forced Poe's hand by being a terrible leader and not sharing her "plan"

lilORANG posted...

Nah. The FO took out all the escape pod transports. This only happened bc she forced Poe's hand by being a terrible leader and not sharing her "plan"

Lol I love how if you just pay attention the movie proves this wrong. If holdo tells poe, then poe tells Finn and rose, who tells dj, who rats them out and they all die.

Literslly was only one way they were making it out

Toonstrack posted...

Lol I love how if you just pay attention the movie proves this wrong. If holdo tells poe, then poe tells Finn and rose, who tells dj, who rats them out and they all die.

Literslly was only one way they were making it out

If Holdo tells Poe, Poe never sends Finn bc he knows there's an actual plan.

lilORANG posted...

If Holdo tells Poe, Poe never sends Finn bc he knows there's an actual plan.

When he sent Finn off Leia was still incapacitated and holdo wasn't doing anything until she came to. Poe was ridiculously impatient and completely lacked rationality firing a dire situation, and his actions nearly led to the whole thing being wiped out.

She not only had no obligation to tell him Jack s*** but doing so would've jeopardized the integrity of the mission, which is the entire reason they were keeping it close to chest.

Finn was going to he off the ship regardless by the time holdo tells anyone anything.

Toonstrack posted...

Lol you definitely watched the shows and continue to.

Idk why people after 6 years are still trying to convince folks they lost all interest in the brand. If you lost all interest yall wouldn't still be talking about it XD

I actually didn't. The only thing I watched after RoS was the first season of The Mandalorian, which was okay as a standalone thing.

We're still talking about it because we love the old trilogies and the lore before the new trilogy ruined it. I even liked episode 1-3 despite being flawed.

CyricZ posted...

In a hundreds-long topic dogpiling on a six-year-old movie, there's an irony to people musing about how people defending the movie are the ones with the problem.

Is there really? I imagine you wouldn't be making the same comments if I made this topic sharing your opinions lol.

Defending a 6 year old movie you like? Good! Hating a 6 year old movie you like? Bad!

Lol

CrestedTax posted...

I actually didn't. The only thing I watched after RoS was the first season of The Mandalorian, which was okay as a standalone thing.

We're still talking about it because we love the old trilogies and the lore before the new trilogy ruined it. I even liked episode 1-3 despite being flawed.

If you liked episodes 1 thru 3 but found these ones to be a bridge too far that says everything. Because these are better movies than those in every way.

Slayer_22 posted...

Is there really? I imagine you wouldn't be making the same comments if I made this topic sharing your opinions lol.

Defending a 6 year old movie you like? Good! Hating a 6 year old movie you like? Bad!

Yeah, that's pretty ironic and you just proved it.

"Wow you wouldn't be criticizing me if I said something you agreed with."

Damn. You got me there.

Come on now...you can all be pretty.

CyricZ posted...

"Wow you wouldn't be criticizing me if I said something you agreed with."

Damn. You got me there.

More your comment about irony wouldn't exist if you agreed with it, so what was the point of it? Whatever irony you see exists for both sides lmao.

Slayer_22 posted...

More your comment about irony wouldn't exist if you agreed with it, so what was the point of it? Whatever irony you see exists for both sides lmao.

The point was implying I was the one without critical I regret in a thread where a bunch of folks are circle jerking around the same opinion.

Toonstrack posted...

If you liked episodes 1 thru 3 but found these ones to be a bridge too far that says everything. Because these are better movies than those in every way.

Yeah, that's pretty ironic and you just proved it.

Yeah no. The prequels had some execution flaws but the story itself was pretty interesting and good.
The new trilogy is just incoherent in so many ways. It's obvious the 3 films weren't written as one story. Rian Johnson grabbed the second film and went "let's subvert expectations hurr durr" and destroyed every bit of build-up. There was no possible way to make a satisfactory third movie after that.

You seem like someone who is content with some pretty CGI and not much else. That's fine but some of us want something more than that.

Toonstrack posted...

The point was implying I was the one without critical I regret in a thread where a bunch of folks are circle jerking around the same opinion.

People regret...what, exactly? Lol. Not to mention, if it was an 'I like TLJ' thread, it, too, would be a circle jerk around the same opinion.

Slayer_22 posted...

People regret...what, exactly? Lol. Not to mention, if it was an 'I like TLJ' thread, it, too, would be a circle jerk around the same opinion.

Nobody who likes TLJ is making topics about TLJ.

Psuedo_Audacity posted...

Nobody who likes TLJ is making topics about TLJ.

Just searched it up on that one site and I see quite a few positive topics about it. So, I think that's incorrect.

Slayer_22 posted...

Just searched it up on that one site and I see quite a few positive topics about it. So, I think that's incorrect.

Yeah, 6 years ago.

Psuedo_Audacity posted...

Yeah, 6 years ago.

No, like a few months ago I think?

CrestedTax posted...

Yeah no. The prequels had some execution flaws but the story itself was pretty interesting and good.

No its not lol. It doesn't become interesting until the third movie. Everything before that is boring and done better in the cartoon. Darth maul is great but hes killed off. Jar jar has more screen time than anakin Skywalker in the first film.

The new trilogy is just incoherent in so many ways. It's obvious the 3 films weren't written as one story. Rian Johnson grabbed the second film and went "let's subvert expectations hurr durr" and destroyed every bit of build-up. There was no possible way to make a satisfactory third movie after that.

He didn't destroy any story. It flows directly from the first in every way and it was so easy to follow up with a third that there's two entire full scripts for the third movie that both go completely different directions. You just don't have the mind of a writer and don't understand hoe to meaningfully follow up a prior story.

You seem like someone who is content with some pretty CGI and not much else. That's fine but some of us want something more than that.

The ST has better acting, visuals, themes, dialgoue, characters, action, and yes... a better story than the prequels. The prequels is a story about anakin and kenobi that features almost no good anakin and kenobi until movie 3. Litersly the obi wan show they just dropped has more anakin and kenobi content than the entire prequel trilogy and thats supposed to be the main driving force.

The entire second movie nothing at all of note happens except analin manages to somehow convince padma to bang him with some of the worst dialogue ever put to a major film. To the point even the PT stalwart defenders have to dance around those scenes.

I've never seen someone that has as many bad takes as Toonstrack. He's like Hailey's comet only I actually wish I couldn't see it, rather than being excited to see it.

The PT is way better than the ST.

Slayer_22 posted...

The PT is way better than the ST.

Delusional opinion

Slayer_22 posted...

I've never seen someone that has as many bad takes as Toonstrack. He's like Hailey's comet only I actually wish I couldn't see it, rather than being excited to see it.

The PT is way better than the ST.

Its Halley's Comet.

And no. It really isnt.

Honestly, other than Superman Leia and almost everything about Rose, I adored that movie.

I think this is appropriate.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/2/5/4/AAfQqfAAEeru.jpg

And PT trilogy is better by default for having three competent movies vs a decent start, great but flawed follow up, and crime against humanity part 3.

RuneterranSnap posted...

And PT trilogy is better by default for having three competent movies

lmao

BurmesePenguin posted...

lmao

I mean, it's true. Note I say "competent" not "good", but I can't overlook that the PT actually tells a compelling story about the rise and fall of a young prodigy, even if it tells it in some thoroughly uninteresting ways at points.

Rise of Skywalker just ruined the sequels.

Star Wars 7 was fine as a reskin of Star Wars 4 but accomplished nothing.
Star Wars 8 was just ... not really a star wars movie but managed to be new and refreshing. Scrap the weird casino thing, FTL ship missile, do *something* with Captain Phasma, keep the porgs, keep The Force picking new children throughout the galaxy to manifest in, I like it.
Star Wars 9 was an incoherent macguffin chase that seemed written by a committee of Zuckerberg esque lifeless grinning suits.

Wish they would have done something with Finn.

RuneterranSnap posted...

I mean, it's true. Note I say "competent" not "good", but I can't overlook that the PT actually tells a compelling story about the rise and fall of a young prodigy, even if it tells it in some thoroughly uninteresting ways at points.

lmao

Everytime I hear the dumbass narrative cohesion argument I just laugh. Okay, the prequels fit together better than the sequels. Who cares? The story as told is beyond awful. Caring that the narrative is better intact is ridiculous. At least the sequels have some good visuals and practical effects. That's literally all they need to be better.

Not like Rolling the Skywalker is a significantly worse movie than Attack of the Clones at any rate.

BurmesePenguin posted...

Delusional opinion

Sorry to hear you think that way.

Toonstrack posted...

Its Halley's Comet.

And no. It really isnt.

Damn. Autocorrect always gets me.

And yes, it really is!
royic posted...

Star Wars 7 was fine as a reskin of Star Wars 4 but accomplished nothing.
Star Wars 8 was just ... not really a star wars movie but managed to be new and refreshing. Scrap the weird casino thing, FTL ship missile, do *something* with Captain Phasma, keep the porgs, keep The Force picking new children throughout the galaxy to manifest in, I like it.
Star Wars 9 was an incoherent macguffin chase that seemed written by a committee of Zuckerberg esque lifeless grinning suits.

Wish they would have done something with Finn.

The way you described 8 sounds like you could just say 'scrap 90% of the movie and it would have been good'.

Calling AotC 'competent' reminds me of that old ZP joke where there should be a form of social services that forcibly takes words away and puts them into state-sponsored care when they get abused this much.

royic posted...

Star Wars 8 was just ... not really a star wars movie but managed to be new and refreshing. Scrap the weird casino thing, FTL ship missile, do *something* with Captain Phasma, keep the porgs, keep The Force picking new children throughout the galaxy to manifest in, I like it.

I actually really liked the FTL ship missile. It wasn't really explained well there, but I like the general idea of the Rebellion doing that sparsely because they aren't a big army and don't have a lot of ships to throw around.

About Phasma though, I think that's a trilogy-wide problem, they made so many great characters and did jack shit with them.

Rey was a come-from-nothing Jedi picked out by the force to be the next great one...except no, she was actually a pawn of Palpatine the entire time.

Kylo Ren was a tragic fall to the dark side who turned events to chaos to enact his greater plan which was....just chaos apparently?

Snoke was a new mysterious villain veiled in secrecy who was really....just a red herring to be killed.

Finn was an escaped Empire subject who wanted to leave war behind.....so the movie just forgets he exists.

Poe Dameron is an ace pilot with authority issues who....grows into an ace pilot with authority issues.

It's so fucking dumb and wasteful.

BurmesePenguin posted...

At least the sequels have some good visuals and practical effects.

So did the prequels. Everything the sequels did right the prequels did too, it's what they did wrong that was so bad, and nothing in the prequels even gets close to the garbage we got from RoS.

RuneterranSnap posted...

So did the prequels.

No they didn't.

BurmesePenguin posted...

No they didn't.

I mean, they all but objectively did. Both visuals and practical effects were on point throughout.

Slayer_22 posted...

The way you described 8 sounds like you could just say 'scrap 90% of the movie and it would have been good'.

More like ... 20%? Rose and Finn's subplot wasn't the best. Rey with Luke and later Rey with Kylo were more solid and interesting than anything else in the rest of the trilogy. There wasn't anything especially wrong with any of the rest of the movie.

I didn't like killing Snoke, but only because Snoke hadn't done anything in the story yet. I didn't like killing Phasma for the same reason. I didn't like the FTL ship missile because it asks the question "why not do this with any cheap FTL ship for incredibly favorable trades and why has it never been done before". But technology consistency and tactics has never really been something Star Wars traded heavily on anyways so whatever.

Also a bigger problem with the FTL missile I didn't realise until someone reminded me(and a problem through the whole trilogy) is FTL in Star Wars doesn't work that way. It's not "go really fast in this direction", it's "go to a specific point, and move really fast towards another specific point" using tunnels throughout space. That's what all the calculations are for.

RuneterranSnap posted...

I mean, it's true.

It isn't. Even TROS is more competent of a movie than AOTC.

RuneterranSnap posted...

Also a bigger problem with the FTL missile I didn't realise until someone reminded me(and a problem through the whole trilogy) is FTL in Star Wars doesn't work that way. It's not "go really fast in this direction", it's "go to a specific point, and move really fast towards another specific point" using tunnels throughout space. That's what all the calculations are for.

You do have to accelerate towards lightspeed to enter hyperspace.

RuneterranSnap posted...

I mean, they all but objectively did. Both visuals and practical effects were on point throughout.

No they weren't. TPM in particular has some really shoddy effects on some of the aliens. Cinematography wise the most memorable shot is the long take when Kenobi fights Maul. The camera is often way too wide and pulled back from the action(this is a problem with a lot of the pt shots actually). AOTC has a similar issue with too much going on on screen and a lack of focus. I personally think the scenes with anakin and padme romancing are kinda ugly and poorly colorized, but the stuff with kenobi fighting jango looks good imo. I dont have a problem with Yoda being a flipping ball of lightsaber slashing energy but they didn't really seem to know how to implement it all that well.

ROTS has some great shots in its last 30 minutes and almost nothing else of particular note.

Meanwhile TLJ boats some of the best action sequences and shots of the entire saga, and even TROS has some iconic imagery and the entire trilogy is just shot better as a whole. The final fight in TFA is gorgeous to look at and the reds of kylos saver against the blue of everything else is awesome. Nothing like that in the PT except the final battle even even then its wierd the way they shot some of that.

The moments of Vader birth have some really great visuals however.