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Board 8 > What's the worst mainline Zelda game?

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foolm0r0n
05/12/23 9:36:58 PM
#103:


UshiromiyaEva posted...
Guilty Gear 2 is fucking Dynasty Warriors.
Dynasty Warriors 2 was legit a totally new game compared to the 1st

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foolm0r0n
05/12/23 9:37:26 PM
#104:


ctesjbuvf posted...
Let's do DMC2 isn't a DMC game instead
DMC2 is lowkey super fun. It's just not a good DMC game. Kinda like DmC.

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NFUN
05/12/23 9:44:01 PM
#105:


Drakengard 2

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Dark_Silvergun
05/12/23 9:50:41 PM
#106:


I've only played two Zelda games, so the question is, which one is really considered the *worst*?

Link's Awakening or Wind Waker???

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MoogleKupo141
05/12/23 10:11:43 PM
#107:


Dark_Silvergun posted...
I've only played two Zelda games, so the question is, which one is really considered the *worst*?

Link's Awakening or Wind Waker???

thats two great games

Im not immediately sure which one Id pick

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MZero
05/12/23 11:04:41 PM
#108:


LeonhartFour posted...
Mario 2 isn't a Mario game

well this is actually true

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StifledSilence
05/12/23 11:54:43 PM
#109:


Leonhart4 posted...
where's OoT

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andylt
05/13/23 2:28:10 PM
#110:


Huh, this got a lot of engagement. I expected a two-horse race between Zelda II and Tri Force Heroes based on their reputations, but then maybe most people haven't played the latter (I haven't!). I am also on the ST > PH train, but neither are great.

As for what counts as mainline, I used wikipedia here (>_>) but I don't think any of these are spinoffs. They're all in the official timeline except TFH, which was released after the timeline came out.

And congratulations to Wind Waker, the only 3D game that nobody has complained isn't in this poll!

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HeroDelTiempo17
05/13/23 2:30:58 PM
#111:


that's because it's not 2002 anymore and WW is unanimously considered as in the running for best zelda of all time (nobody correct me on this)

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lordjers
05/13/23 2:35:19 PM
#112:


WW would be my vote for worst 3D Zelda but full speed sailing is cool.

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Kenri
05/13/23 2:42:57 PM
#113:


Wind Waker sucks and is definitely in the running for worst game in the series, but admittedly I haven't played the remake that apparently fixes my biggest issue with it.

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KamikazePotato
05/13/23 2:46:48 PM
#114:


Wind Waker blows

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Leonhart4
05/13/23 2:53:22 PM
#115:


KamikazePotato posted...
Wind Waker blows

For 80% of the game

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tazzyboyishere
05/13/23 3:01:13 PM
#116:


Wind Waker is the best Zelda game.

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UshiromiyaEva
05/13/23 3:01:40 PM
#117:


tazzyboyishere posted...
Wind Waker is the best Zelda game.


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MacArrowny
05/13/23 3:24:32 PM
#118:


Curious how a "worst 3D Zelda other than SS" poll would go. Could see a few of them winning that, since they're all pretty well-loved.

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BetrayedTangy
05/13/23 3:30:02 PM
#119:


Wind Waker's a great Zelda. Some of my favorite atmosphere in the franchise.

Also hot take here, but King of Red Lions > Epona.

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lordjers
05/13/23 3:39:05 PM
#120:


My hot take is that sailing and exploring the islands are the best parts about WW.

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foolm0r0n
05/13/23 5:18:37 PM
#121:


WW is amazing with the HD fixes. They really figured out to mash everything good about Zelda together.

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pjbasis
05/13/23 5:47:54 PM
#122:


HD messes with the cel shades art style but otherwise a fantastic version. Swift sail is great.

Still think the ocean exploring is greatly undermined by most islands being obvious one trick ponies.

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Dark_Young_Link
05/13/23 6:57:04 PM
#123:


HeroDelTiempo17 posted...
that's because it's not 2002 anymore and WW is unanimously considered as in the running for best zelda of all time (nobody correct me on this)

There's nothing to correct because you said nothing wrong.

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th3l3fty
05/13/23 10:47:30 PM
#124:


speed sailing doesn't fix Wind Waker's problem of terrible dungeons

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BetrayedTangy
05/13/23 10:55:01 PM
#125:


I'll admit I'm not too keen on the escort dungeons, but the rest are fantastic.

Dragoon Roost and Forbidden Woods are some of the best in the franchise.

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GranzonEx
05/13/23 11:28:18 PM
#126:


SS is one of my favs. It has excellent dungeons, almost every inch was designed with purpose and never felt like filler. It's also the only Zelda game with minigames that I could actually beat because they designed them to be beatable with terrible motion controls so they are by default extremely easy. I could never beat any minigames from OoT/MM/TP/WW.

Edit: I never managed to get through even 10 minutes of Spirit Tracks or Phantom Hourglass because I just couldn't figure out how to even move Link with the touchscreen.

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#127
Post #127 was unavailable or deleted.
KamikazePotato
05/13/23 11:50:40 PM
#128:


I legitimately don't like any part about Wind Waker. The dungeons are weak, the exploration is tedious, the music is average, and while I'm a big fan of cel-shading in general the character proportions looks weird. If you're not on board with the sailing-across-the-sea vibe then the game has nothing to offer.

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paperwarior
05/14/23 1:02:19 AM
#129:


foolm0r0n posted...
DMC2 is lowkey super fun. It's just not a good DMC game. Kinda like DmC.
As contrarianism goes, this is to go even further beyond.

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Kenri
05/14/23 1:08:15 AM
#130:


th3l3fty posted...
speed sailing doesn't fix Wind Waker's problem of terrible dungeons
Yeah I think if I ranked all the Zelda dungeons Wind Waker might legitimately have the entire bottom 5 or so. Really subverted the Zelda standard where the dungeons are much better than the overworld by making both really bad.

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HanOfTheNekos
05/14/23 1:24:48 AM
#131:


BetrayedTangy posted...
Also hot take here, but King of Red Lions > Epona.

How is that a hot take?

One is a character, one is an item.

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SHINE_GET_64
05/14/23 1:33:37 AM
#132:


Voted Phantom Hourglass

Never played Triforce Heroes

Zelda 2 is good

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paperwarior
05/14/23 1:35:19 AM
#133:


I don't think I could choose anything not in the PH/ST duology out of ones I've played.

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ChichiriMuyo
05/14/23 6:02:17 AM
#134:


MZero posted...
well this is actually true
The engine was actually designed to be used for a Mario 2 game, but higher ups wanted a sequel as fast as possible so they got Lost Levels as 2. Also SMB2 was released as SMB USA, so even in Japan it is actually considered a Mario game. Clearly evidenced by SMB3 having bob-ombs and other, later games continuing to have characters from 2. No one in Japan bats an eye when Shy Guy or Birdo show up in other Mario games.

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Paratroopa1
05/14/23 6:06:59 AM
#135:


Weaksauce nerd lore: "Did you know Super Mario Bros 2 was originally Doki Doki Panic?"
Refined nerd lore: "Did you know Doki Doki Panic was originally Super Mario Bros 2?"

It's true, by the way - Doki Doki Panic originally began life as a Mario game before being converted into a weird promotional game for a TV station's anime block, before eventually being converted afterwards into Super Mario Bros 2/Super Mario USA
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snake_5036
05/14/23 7:44:27 AM
#136:


Four Swords.

All the multiplayer games are last, but at least FSA and TH are full games. Then I hear the DS games are generally bottom tier (I haven't played them and don't intend to), then you can start throwing in the middling games like Skyward Sword or Zelda 1.

Zelda 2 is the best 2D Zelda, it's insane that it has the most votes.

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BlackMageJawa
05/14/23 8:01:34 AM
#137:


snake_5036 posted...
Four Swords.
All the multiplayer games are last, but at least FSA and TH are full games

Maybe true for original Four Swords, but Four Swords Anniversary's single-player mode is much more enjoyable than the sheer slog of Tri Force Heroes.

Having all the Links auto-follow the one you're controlling until you need to issue specific controls is great. Having to manually move all of them one at a time is madness.

TFH might be good in multiplayer, I don't know. But that one massive downgrade from their already perfectly fine formula utterly ruined single-player.

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pezzicle
05/14/23 8:03:43 AM
#138:


tazzyboyishere posted...
Wind Waker is the best Zelda game.


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foolm0r0n
05/14/23 8:29:01 AM
#139:


KamikazePotato posted...
If you're not on board with the sailing-across-the-sea vibe then the game has nothing to offer.
Not at all. With swift sail you spend very little time in the water. And the grid system makes it obvious how to get from one island to the other. It's just a fancy loading screen.

There's just a ton of stuff to do in the overworld, and the dungeons are decent to great. That's all it takes to make a great Zelda.

Windfall island is one of the best levels ever.

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KamikazePotato
05/14/23 8:48:35 AM
#140:


I'm sure Swift Sail is a great change. I'm also not going to factor in a rerelease I didn't play for a game I already gave 3 chances back in the day. Should've gotten it right the first time.

There's technically a lot of stuff to do in the overworld but none of it is actually fun. That's just the basic disconnect we're going to have in this discussion. Literally no part of Wind Waker was fun for me to play.

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UshiromiyaEva
05/14/23 9:30:53 AM
#141:


WW is the only Zelda I'd want to replay at this point.

Having the overworld seperate into those clean squares and not having to worry about much of any boring open world nonsense between them, mmmmmmm delicious.

I would love to actually play the rerelease one day, but sadly they haven't put it on real console normal people owned yet. Not about to go out and get a Nintendo NGage.

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HaRRicH
05/14/23 9:53:16 AM
#142:


BetrayedTangy posted...
Also hot take here, but King of Red Lions > Epona.

HanOfTheNekos posted...
How is that a hot take?

One is a character, one is an item.

Boooooooooooo.

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_SJimW_
05/14/23 9:57:58 AM
#143:


WW is pretty cleanly the worst 3D Zelda (not taking into account TotK since I haven't played it much yet, honestly it might be worse to me since the opening few hours have not grabbed me but obviously not enough to judge by), but the lows the series hits with stuff like Zelda II, PH/ST, and TriForce Heroes are much lower imo. WW for all its faults still has a lot of the core of what made earlier games like OoT good.

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Lil_Bit83
05/14/23 10:01:18 AM
#144:


HeroDelTiempo17 posted...
Saying Zelda II has tight and responsive controls is true but it dodges the actual issue with the game: I hate how combat works in the game. I can't wrap my head around it, and I don't want to because it isn't fun. Thus the skill-testing difficulty falls apart. This is not a flaw in the design, it is just design that misses for me and evidently a huge amount of people as well.

You can say this about any number of games. Dark Souls, Castlevania, Super Metroid are all games with incredibly technical and intentionally designed controls, and for each one you can find people who completely bounce off them. Gameplay is a subjective experience.

And now that I think about it Castlevania is a really good example since SotN was directly inspired by Zelda II. The design principles are solid but CV really iterated on it and made it more accessible.
You can't figure out how to stab, crouch and jump? There's only a handful of buttons. You're really reaching for excuses, its not like its a complicated fighting game, where you hafta figure out combo-chains and special moves. You are ridiculous.

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ChichiriMuyo
05/14/23 11:17:12 AM
#145:


foolm0r0n posted...
Not at all. With swift sail you spend very little time in the water. And the grid system makes it obvious how to get from one island to the other. It's just a fancy loading screen.

There's just a ton of stuff to do in the overworld, and the dungeons are decent to great. That's all it takes to make a great Zelda.

Windfall island is one of the best levels ever.
So your opinion is that a rerelease with a function to skip significant portions of the game makes the game good? Isn't that a blatant admission that the game was, in fact, not very good? I didn't even vote for WW, but I did find that the sailing made it unbearable to play. Nintendo allowing players to skip that means that they agree. There may be great parts of that game, but they hid them behind a "feature" that was actually just an out and out theft of your time.

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pezzicle
05/14/23 11:20:34 AM
#146:


i loved sailing

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ChichiriMuyo
05/14/23 11:29:57 AM
#147:


Well, now, that wasn't the issue. If you loved doing nothing for long stretches of time then I'm glad they made a game for you. You do you. The issue is that so many of us didn't like it that Nintendo had to remake the game with an option to skip it.

I have no interest in a fishing simulator. I would never take it away from others as an option, but I wouldn't play it. If they made fishing the main part of a Zelda game instead of a minigame I would not like that Zelda game. I actually don't even like the fishing minigames in Zelda, but I can usually tolerate them because because they are just that - minigames.

Nintendo could have made a sailing video game. That may have even been what they wanted to make. I don't have to and will not like a sailing game with a Zelda minigame inside of it.

That said, no one has to like Zelda 2. When someone says they don't like it because it's not their type of game, fine. But we all just recently read someone outright claiming it's not even a Zelda game, despite its title, because of totally irrational reasons. When I defend that game it's not because everyone has to like it, it's because many people dislike it for the wrong reasons. It is a Zelda game, it's not as hard as most people claim, and if you take it for what it is instead of challenging it for what it isn't you will find there is a very good game in there that you may not like, but it's still a good game.

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MZero
05/14/23 11:36:04 AM
#148:


from what I remember WW slapped for 80% of the game but the Triforce quest kinda sucked

if you want an absolutely blazing take, I would say OoT is the worst 3D Zelda

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ChichiriMuyo
05/14/23 11:38:25 AM
#149:


I'll take a less hot take approach and say OoT was actually mediocre. Amazing, for the time, but nothing special by any stretch today.

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tazzyboyishere
05/14/23 11:39:22 AM
#150:


Best part of sailing is discovering all the islands and little secrets and scavenging for treasure. Definitely created that sense of discovery BotW had in a much more compartmentalized fashion. Unfortunately it stinks on replays, so Swift Sail is a game changer.

As for the dungeons, yeah, they're not great. I still think Earth and Wind Temple have great design, but the rest are far too simple. You can't count on combat challenge either since it's also far too easy, especially with how many options you have for fighting the weak ass enemies. Game is in dire need of a re-release with, like, a Hero Mode+ where you can actually be at risk of losing.

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pjbasis
05/14/23 11:44:33 AM
#151:


idk the grid-based system makes the actual exploration part not as exciting to me. Not to mention how the game doesn't even let you sail off the beaten path for like 10 hours. It is understandable that they'd want you to get certain upgrades because otherwise you'd be exploring just to find dead ends everywhere, but it's even sort of true after the Forest Haven.

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KamikazePotato
05/14/23 11:45:25 AM
#152:


Wind Waker really exposes how hollow Zelda exploration is at its core. You go to an island, solve a puzzle that requires no brainpower, maybe kill a miniboss that has no chance of doing more than two hearts of damage to you, and you get...what? Rupees? A piece of heart that you don't need? The challenge is nonexistent and the rewards are worthless. Wind Waker actually knows this, which is why it made the Triforce Hunt a huge Rupee sink so they could justify showering you with cash the entire game. Unfortunately they made the worst part of the game in the process.

Essentially, if the rewards are meaningless, then the fun has to come from the intrinsic feeling of exploration itself. And if you don't really care for sailing on an ocean, then what does Wind Waker have to offer? A checklist of side islands and sub-par main Dungeons?

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