Board 8 > Super Smash Bros. Mafia - Topic 8: Fox Only, Final Destination

(+) Yeah! (+)

UltimaterializerX posted...

Let me claim my actual role, full honesty, yet again.

Town clairvoyant. At the end of each DAY PHASE, I get a beetle in my inventory. I can choose to send it out to scout the scum team. I pick one of the 3 priorities (high, normal, low). I can do this for each beetle if I have multiple. If it sees an item used, I see it. If it does NOT see an item used, an item the scum team used is randomly selected from other priorities. More on this in a second.

On night 1, I did nothing. Every single thing I discussed with Chris yesterday was absolute bullshit. If you want to kill me for that, I understand and I won't argue. I melted down a little because I think my role is neat and wanted to stay alive. I think that's a little defensible, but hey.

On night 2, I had 2 beetles. I sent both out, one high and one normal. The "high" beetle returned a Deku Nut, and I was told what it did. Target stunned, but no passive abilities are stopped. This is almost assuredly telling me that Lea is their roleblocker so we kill her today and move on.

The normal beetle returned nothing. Zero. No items. This means scum has a ninja something-or-other (possible given watchers and trackers and me going around) or only used the Deku Nut last night.

This leads to a lot of easy conclusions. Unless Goldeens are ninja fish, Chris is confirmed town and if he's scum we lynch Kirby. Who even cares. SBell is confirmed town.

Cody, MZero, Wallz, and Plum are like 99% confirmed town unless scum is self targeting to trick us. Possible, but we don't consider that today. Occulam's Razor.

If you guys stop the BS and just listen to me and Corrik, the POE becomes impossible to lose from -- Chang, Corrik, Crescent, Lea, and Red (sorry Corrik, just being thorough!).

Lynch Lea -> Crescent -> Red -> Chang in that order and we almost assuredly win. If you have to kill me to confirm my role and this lynch order, I won't argue with anyone about it anymore. Just do it tomorrow after Roleblocker Lea dies so town power can finish things off.

Listen to the correct POE and learn from last game.

Doesn't make any sense and has a gaping hole in the logic. Wall claimed roleblocked. You claimed scum used a "Deku nut" to stun someone, shortly after Wall claimed roleblocked. You directly insinuated belief that the "Deku Nut" was used on Wall when you first claimed.

Cody claims to have tracked Lea to MZero, ergo if Cody if town, Lea both cannot be a ninja and is confirmed to target someone other than Wall. This makes Lea confirmed town according to your claim, unless Cody and Lea are both scum.

It's a glaring contradiction between claim and action.

*upvotes crescent*

Ulti claim your real role

Cop + watcher + tracker + overpowered/broken role that basically confirms all town power?

Like lol. Seriously, ulti? Lol

Seems like it only confirms what items exist?

Thats not very strong. Its plausible I suppose as a French vanilla

masterplum posted...

Seems like it only confirms what items exist?

Thats not very strong. Its plausible I suppose as a French vanilla

if all that scum does is items it seems pretty OP

Obellisk posted...

if all that scum does is items it seems pretty OP

Given joyrock flipped GF that doesnt seem to be the case

and how is it OP knowing what scum has? Even if it was a blanket find out everything scum does every night without knowing targets that isnt extremely helpful. Its one third of that at best.

Im not saying Ulti is town, but Im not saying his claim is so ludicrous its a fake claim either.

We should judge him based on his play

masterplum posted...

Seems like it only confirms what items exist?

Thats not very strong. Its plausible I suppose as a French vanilla

Not very strong? He's claiming a role potentially even more broken than IGCD's role from Elden Ring.

Chris, Cody, Lea, and Wall, should all be virtually confirmed town by Ulti's claim. Ulti is just being selective in who he's trying to allow it to confirm. The real question here is if this is a bus.

It's obviously a fake claim. If real, scum has ways around it.

It almost reads like a soft derail of the Lea lynch despite him passionately saying to lynch her with me. Either way, pretty sure Lea is scum regardless.

Crescent-Moon posted...

Not very strong? He's claiming a role potentially even more broken than IGCD's role from Elden Ring.

Chris, Cody, Lea, and Wall, should all be virtually confirmed town by Ulti's claim. Ulti is just being selective in who he's trying to allow it to confirm. The real question here is if this is a bus.

Not remotely close. It would only catch if there are too many vanilla claims as any fake claim that is an action wouldnt be seen

except right now we havent seen any vanillas so scum will never be caught by it if they claim power, and it only catches a third of actions anyways.

and thats assuming scum can only use items.

If I told you N1 scum used a role scan, a role block, and a ninja what does that tell you about claims? Not a whole hell of a lot.

Pretty sure scum Cody just backs up the gun and shoots a villager don't you

Corrik7 posted...

It's obviously a fake claim. If real, scum has ways around it.

It almost reads like a soft derail of the Lea lynch despite him passionately saying to lynch her with me. Either way, pretty sure Lea is scum regardless.

I still think Ulti and Lea are scum together

Lea thinks, or claims to think, scum had the ability to track. And used this ability on her. Cody fake claimed backup to explain the watch

wallmasterz posted...

I still think Ulti and Lea are scum together

The other most likely possibility is town together lol

SirChris posted...

Pretty sure scum Cody just backs up the gun and shoots a villager don't you

why is scum cody still a backup for town in this case.

i mean i don't think it's wholly unreasonable or impossible for cody to be scum with a tracker action and lea to be telling the truth, i just don't see ample enough evidence to make it more probable than lea being scum and we probably need the info too much not to make this lynch

on the bright side lea, you're at the beach and can pay no more heed to our miserable lot. enjoy!

##Vote: Lea

Obellisk posted...

why is scum cody still a backup for town in this case.

Other option is scum tracker that tracked Lea to her truthful target for fun

SirChris posted...

Other option is scum tracker that tracked Lea to her truthful target for fun

they did already kill the doctor and the cop, is there really a higher expected value play with a tracker action than this?

changmas posted...

they did already kill the doctor and the cop, is there really a higher expected value play with a tracker action than this?

Did they already kill the doctor and cop, chang?

##Unvote

ok wait maybe i want to think this over actually

SirChris posted...

Did they already kill the doctor and cop, chang?

well they did have 4 possible n1 rolecops

and i have not yet accepted sbell as town vig

changmas posted...

they did already kill the doctor

town killed the doctor. I killed the doctor. Stupidly perhaps, not like everyone was screaming death is town. we never lynch him.

actually lea using n1 rolecop on wallz and n2 rolecop on mzero makes a ton of sense

Obellisk posted...

town killed the doctor. I killed the doctor. Stupidly perhaps, not like everyone was screaming death is town. we never lynch him.

sbell did you think ulti was town at the end of d2?

I apologize if you said this already

wallmasterz posted...

sbell did you think ulti was town at the end of d2?

I apologize if you said this already

I continued to want to believe there was no way he could be scum. I still want to believe that. But current working theory here is that he must be scum trying to get us to believe certain things about scum item use.

changmas posted...

actually lea using n1 rolecop on wallz and n2 rolecop on mzero makes a ton of sense

joyrock used sandbag though, not lea.

Obellisk posted...

I continued to want to believe there was no way he could be scum. I still want to believe that. But current working theory here is that he must be scum trying to get us to believe certain things about scum item use.

I otherwise lean town on you but shooting death instead of Ulti after that d2 I am struggling to understand it. Not saying its impossible.

why did you not shoot ulti instead?

wallmasterz posted...

I otherwise lean town on you but shooting death instead of Ulti after that d2 I am struggling to understand it. Not saying its impossible.

why did you not shoot ulti instead?

Fear of being wrong. Convinced myself I couldn't find a reason not to shoot death. Doubting myself. Worrying if I didn't take the shot night 2 that I may not get the chance to use it. And after the Day 1 I had to endure with Ulti and the Day 2 with Chris, this game has been a bit of a Rollercoaster.

I also almost shot Plum and Lea a whole bunch but wasn't ready to pull those triggers either.

Obellisk posted...

joyrock used sandbag though, not lea.

read the flip

sandbag has 4 total uses and it doesn't say anything about only being able to be used once per night

so you think they did two or more rolecops night 1?

why not?

Obellisk posted...

Fear of being wrong. Convinced myself I couldn't find a reason not to shoot death. Doubting myself. Worrying if I didn't take the shot night 2 that I may not get the chance to use it. And after the Day 1 I had to endure with Ulti and the Day 2 with Chris, this game has been a bit of a Rollercoaster.

I also almost shot Plum and Lea a whole bunch but wasn't ready to pull those triggers either.

Ok. Since you couldnt find a reason not to shoot death, what reason did you find to not shoot Ulti?

wallmasterz posted...

Ok. Since you couldnt find a reason not to shoot death, what reason did you find to not shoot Ulti?

it would be too fucked of him to act the way he did day 1 and be scum and still be here.

But I have since eased up on that belief as his claim is constantly changing and is just forcing us to believe things that may not be true. And it's totally in ultis wheel house to be as stated above.

Obellisk posted...

joyrock used sandbag though, not lea.

How do you know how this works? Why not both of them using sand bag?

Also Sbell saying he almost shot me is so beyond what town would do

Sbell is scum. Do not let him live

masterplum posted...

How do you know how this works? Why not both of them using sand bag?

I don't know how it works. I just know that sandbag flipped when joyrock flipped. so I linked the sandbag to joyrock.

sorry that is too simple for you.

masterplum posted...

Also Sbell saying he almost shot me is so beyond what town would do

Sbell is scum. Do not let him live

Right, Town would totally watch Sir Chris though.

Obellisk posted...

Right, Town would totally watch Sir Chris though.

You claimed you considered shooting me before I revealed that

To offer a rebuttal to Lea's points.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

1. With 4-ish scum alive, utilizing a Track that is unexpected can be used to nail someone using an Item. There's more to gain than just catching whoever submits the kill.
2. I wasn't convinced you were scum myself through Day 2, which is why I chose you to Track to get more information. If you're Town, you would be seen moving and I could confirm who you visit. If you're Scum, I could catch you either killing or using the item when Scum wouldn't be expecting a Track with Marth dead.
3. Calling the risk-adverse discussion to handing out a DayVig shot nefarious is silly when you and I both played Han's All DayVig game, in which Town shot Scum one time, whereas Town shot Town at least five times from what I recall.

Also I concur with Chang on this.

changmas posted...

read the flip

sandbag has 4 total uses and it doesn't say anything about only being able to be used once per night

I swore I read it as an item couldn't be used multiple times, but I went back to check and you're right. The rules don't rule out scum being able to use the same item multiple times in a night.

- Rather than traditional roles, SCUM has a pool of items to use as night actions. Each scum may use one item per night. These items all have limited uses, though some items can be used more than once.

Sandbag (Role Cop)

ACTION: 4-Shot Spawn Sandbag - Select a player to spawn a Sandbag on. That player will be instantly charmed by Sandbag and will give it a good thrashing, revealing their role name, actions, and abilities in the process. This item may be used up to four times.

Also to recap.

Corrik7 posted...

Cody could you choose any role to backup?

I could choose any dead Town role and receive a 1-Shot version of it.

Night 1 I only had Tracker as an option. I decided to hold because I didn't feel like I was in danger of getting killed at that point, and I wanted to see who flipped.

Night 2 I had Tracker or Gunsmith. I put my foot in my mouth Day 2 with my reveal, so I was going to use Backup to confirm my role. After soliciting some feedback, I chose Tracker because handing someone a gun was likely to backfire IMO (Chris also put the fear of a redirect into my mind).

Night 2 I tracked Lea who visited MZero.

Cody11533 posted...

Also to recap.

I could choose any dead Town role and receive a 1-Shot version of it.

Night 1 I only had Tracker as an option. I decided to hold because I didn't feel like I was in danger of getting killed at that point, and I wanted to see who flipped.

Night 2 I had Tracker or Gunsmith. I put my foot in my mouth Day 2 with my reveal, so I was going to use Backup to confirm my role. After soliciting some feedback, I chose Tracker because handing someone a gun was likely to backfire IMO (Chris also put the fear of a redirect into my mind).

Night 2 I tracked Lea who visited MZero.

Got you. Thanks.

i mean personally i would expect the redirect to force your initial backup selection to fail because that seems like an ability that requires targetting a (dead) player

but i'm not the host and kirby would have to confirm that i suppose and it could go either way

Cody, how would your role work with ultis? Doesn't seem to work as a 1 use?

I want Sbell to explain how he considered shooting me N2

Because that seems like a slip, because scum absolutely would have considered shooting me N2.

His arguments against me seem to stem from me watching Chris, but his claim of considering shooting me N2 contradict that