Current Events > Can we just agree that Republicans in this country are NOT real Christians?

(+) Yeah! (+)

The Nazis had an idea of Aryan Christianity/Positive Christianity which was basically just Nazi ideals mixed with non denominational Christianity to help assuage the fears of German Christians and also to get them on board with the Nazi party. It had also however notably departed from faith in the apostles creed or even the idea of Christ as The Son of God. It referred to Hitler himself as the herald of the new revalation.

Does this not sound familiar to what is happening with Christianity in our own country?

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/8/6/3/AAM8b1AAEivP.jpg

Hitler even referred to himself as a Christian, and at times a catholic. However, it is thought by many historians that his acceptance of Christianity was driven by opportunism and a pragmatic recognition of the political importance of the Christian churches in Germany

Does this not sound to anyone else like what is currently going on in our country at the moment? The way the so called "Christian" right weaponizes religion for its own personal political gain?

As a Christian myself these people disgust me, and I want to hear what CE thinks on the matter. It wouldn't exactly be the first time the gop was following certain ideals from certain, typically fascist political and ideological agendas.

Matthew 6:5 is the answer to this

And when you pray, you shall not be like the hypocrites. For they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the corners of the streets, that they may be seen by men. Assuredly, I say to you, they have their reward.

Being a Christian and being a trump or DeSantis supporter are incompatible

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If anything, TC is making the argument that Republicans are 'real' Christians.

The Christian right disgusts me, and they would gladly crucify Jesus if he came back now.

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Well, for starters, if you're not following the absolute most basic of principles, like love thy neighbor, don't judge others, and to grant forgivness, then that's a great way to weed out the "fake" christians.

The problem here is that Republicans aren't just failing at complex dogmatic questions that have caused millenia long rifts like, "what's the nature of the trinity" or "should we worship idols". They're failing at the most basic of Jesus teachings.

Like 99% of all modern Christians aren't actually LEGIT Christians. As in Christians who live by Jesus and God's teachings and laws. Politicians and other people who have agendas that need to be fueled by followers and their money LOVE to hide behind the guise of having Christian values, because that is where a lot of potential money lies in the US and UK and people who have staunch religious values or are eager to help and please can be easily to manipulate.

Basically anyone who desires power, influence and money beyond the means of supporting themselves and their family and aiding people of all kinds is not a Christian by definition. So no, Republicans are not and can never be Christians unless they denounce their Republican ways, lifestyle and acquisitions from it. It's similar for Democrats, but true Dems are less likely to be making plays for power so of course they aren't looked upon as poorly as Reps unless they are also pro Corpos.

Church of England teaching document calls for repentance over role of Christians in centuries of antisemitism
Christian theology played a part in the stereotyping and persecution of Jewish people which ultimately led to the Holocaust, a new reflection on Christian-Jewish relations issued by the Church of England acknowledges.
https://www.churchofengland.org/news-and-media/news-and-statements/church-england-teaching-document-calls-repentance-over-role

Until WW2, Christianity was militant and violent. The most famous examples, like the crusades and the witch trials, were typical, not exceptions.

European history is 2000 years of Christians slaughtering hundreds of millions of other Christians and non-Christians.

All that Christian bloodlust only changed after WW2, when Christians in Europe finally mellowed out and focused on the whole "love thy neighbor" thing instead of "kill the infidels."

FolkenRawr posted...

If anything, TC is making the argument that Republicans are 'real' Christians.

No I am not

I am making the argument that they're attempting to portray themselves as Christians for political gain and in attempt to gain favor and assuage fear from Christians in this country like other fascist regimes before them.

I mean the overwhelming majority of Christian priests/pastors/etc that spoke about politics over the past six years declared support for Trump and the current Republicans (that infamous prayer meeting the night of the election)... so are/were they "not real Christians"?

texanfan27 posted...

Matthew 6:5 is the answer to this

And when you pray, you shall not be like the hypocrites. For they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the corners of the streets, that they may be seen by men. Assuredly, I say to you, they have their reward.

also they are not acting in love for others, so they do not follow Christs teachings.

Matthew 22:39 and John 13:35

The "pro life" Christians are especially awful.

If they were at all versed in the bible, they'd come to the logical conclusion that the act of abortion is neutral at worst.

Christianity is an authoritarian religion with many rules, as CE users like to mockingly point out whenever they pick up a Bible.
Thus it's really odd to see CE also pretend that Mr. "Go and sin no more" was a socialist who was cool with you doing whatever.

GranolaPanic posted...

Jesus teachings and Socialism have a lot in common. Are you really going to deny that?

He sounds like your typical evangelical

GranolaPanic posted...

Jesus teachings and Socialism have a lot in common. Are you really going to deny that?

Many properties of socialism are proper and good, sharing and charity are excellent qualities. A shame that such qualities that work on the individual level do not translate to an enforced governmental level.

Meanwhile Jesus would happily go to a pride parade. To preach the Word and encourage them to stop sinning.

instead of just giving them to whoever needed them, a better jesus would have set up a supply and distribution chain for his loaves and fishes enterprise, and made mucho dinero

or whatever money was called back then

Absolute 100% disagree with TC.

When people tell me what gender they wish to express I believe them, and when people tell me what god they believe in and what religion they follow, I also believe them.

Also: The bar for being a Christian is that you believe in the divinity of Jesus and the Resurrection. Who am I or who are you to tell them they are believing wrong?

Who makes the rules? Who gets to decide which passages to ignore and which to interpret to suit their political agenda because literally ALL Christians pick and choose which parts of the bible to adhere to and which to ignore. Hundreds of denominations interpret the Bible slightly differently than others.

So no... I will not accept the "No TRUE Scotsman/Christian" fallacy.

You don't get to gate keep - spend some time and effort trying to make them better Christians if you don't like how they reflect on you!

We dont get to decide who is a Christian and who is not.

ThePrinceFish posted...

Many properties of socialism are proper and good, sharing and charity are excellent qualities. A shame that such qualities that work on the individual level do not translate to an enforced governmental level.

Meanwhile Jesus would happily go to a pride parade. To preach the Word and encourage them to stop sinning.

Provide some verses where Jesus specifically talks about non heterosexual relationships.

GranolaPanic posted...

Jesus teachings and Socialism have a lot in common. Are you really going to deny that?

Yup. Jesus and God likely wanted a world built on socialist values and it would be the best course to create a strong world that could become capable of truly great things, but the sadistic greed and bloodlust of "American" forefathers wants Capitalist oppression and corporate and governmental indentured servitude for us and our progeny instead. Land of the Free? Home of the American Dream? Equality for all? All flowery propaganda bullshit. Nothing more.

No, but I would definitely say that people that say that they aren't real ones. Jesus died so that all denominations could be treated as equals in the eyes of God (hence stuff like John 1:9), which means that anyone acting like one denomination is somehow more legitimate than another is inherently disavowing Jesus and thus not a Christian.

Thewinner14 posted...

Matthew 22:39 and John 13:35

and that there is the most important thing most fail at. Loving neighbors and one another, not those that agree with you.

Torgo posted...

You don't get to gate keep - spend some time and effort trying to make them better Christians if you don't like how they reflect on you!

I am not trying to gatekeep necessarily, I am just trying to make it a point that Christianity has been abused many times in the past for violence, political gain, fascism, and repression, something which to me, seems very prominent in the current republican party.

With many such aspects of those like Trump and DeSantis mirroring that of 1940's Germany. We are told to love, and genocide simply, is not love.

They love that rino thing they came up with. Replace the r with a c and there you have it.

itachi15243 posted...

I am not trying to gatekeep necessarily, I am just trying to make it a point that Christianity has been abused many times in the past for violence, political gain, fascism, and repression, something which to me, seems very prominent in the current republican party.

Considering the entire religion started for different parts of Israel to have a power play over another part of the country one could argue that the entire point of Christianity is be used for political gain/repression.

ThePrinceFish posted...

Many properties of socialism are proper and good, sharing and charity are excellent qualities. A shame that such qualities that work on the individual level do not translate to an enforced governmental level.

This is a fundamental misunderstanding of socialism.

In socialism, the means of production are owned by the worker and everyone has a stake in it's success. In Capitalism, a capitalist owns the means of production and dictates with the well-being of the workers being important only as far as it effects profitability.

The key to a solid socialist foundation is representative democracy which has been lacking from the more extreme communist experiments which have failed - while socialist democracy has elevated the livelihood and prosperity of the average citizen in social democracies where it continues to work quite well to this day.

Meanwhile, capitalism without the restraints of democracy becomes anarcho-despotism, while capitalism under the best case scenario under a democracy works tirelessly against the corrupting influence of capital and consolidated wealth.

texanfan27 posted...

and that there is the most important thing most fail at. Loving neighbors and one another, not those that agree with you.

Can add John 15:12, 13 too

Big time lol at "true christians".

The number of times religious groups accuse other religious groups of not adhering correctly is infinite.

The true Scotsman fallacy really.

I know some religious types get defensive that their religion might not be the beacon of moral goodness they interpret it to be, especially when bringing up past uglies. However, truth be told Christianity has gone through so many interpretation it's not even funny. Interpretations that justified many evils and autrocities including misogyny, bigotry and slavery.

In short, their interpretation of Christianity assuming they genuinely believe in their interpretation and not just grifting, very much makes them Christians.

Also before the victimhood soapbox team moves in, no my post isnt saying this is exclusive to Christianity. The topic is literally about Christianity hence why I specifically called it out.

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While I do understand that this is far from the first time that Christianity has been used for violence, political gain, genocide, and repression of the people I do not believe that it is something necessarily inherent to the religion.

Many peaceful religions have been otherwise used as pretext for these things, and I do not agree with many things that the church has done over the centuries.

ellis123 posted...

Considering the entire religion started for different parts of Israel to have a power play over another part of the country one could argue that the entire point of Christianity is be used for political gain/repression.

I mean a really good example of Christianity used for repression and control is slavery. Since they used it to make slaves more subservient. Still to this day have no idea why a lot of black people still cling to that religion

itachi15243 posted...

While I do understand that this is far from the first time that Christianity has been used for violence, political gain, genocide, and repression of the people I do not believe that it is something necessarily inherent to the religion.

Other Christians will disagree with you.
Not atheists or Muslims, other Christians.

They will say you lack the courage of your convictions, they will say you lack faith and disobey god by allowing the heretics and unbelievers to spit in the face of God, and there are plenty of Bible passages to back that up too.

If you claim that you get to gate-keep for them, then they can gate-keep for you and claim you aren't a true Christian and are unfit to call yourself that. As someone raised in a Christian household that was certainly exposed to the faith growing up - I can't tell either of you that you aren't "true Christians" - because as long as you believe in the divinity and Resurrection of Jesus, you are Christians.

itachi15243 posted...

While I do understand that this is far from the first time that Christianity has been used for violence, political gain, genocide, and repression of the people I do not believe that it is something necessarily inherent to the religion.

... What do you think the purpose of religion is?

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"Justice is subject to dispute; might is easily recognised and is not disputed"

And no I won't, however you must understand that not all Christians have always been in agreement over the terrible things that those in power have done, or even that they were truly aware of what was happening.

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But it *is* an argument against theirs, so it does have value.

itachi15243 posted...

"Justice is subject to dispute; might is easily recognised and is not disputed"

And no I won't, however you must understand that not all Christians have always been in agreement over the terrible things that those in power have done, or even that they were truly aware of what was happening.

That doesn't change if a different interpretation still classifies one's actions as Christian.

As you are aware there isn't one interpretation of Christianity or the Bible.

ellis123 posted...

But it *is* an argument against theirs, so it does have value.

It has 0 value to their interpretation of Christianity and the Bible.

RyukSan posted...

It has 0 value to their interpretation of Christianity and the Bible which tells them they are Christians.

Exactly. It actively goes against their interpretation.

ellis123 posted...

Exactly. It actively goes against their interpretation.

Not exactly.
Your interpretation of the Bible or Christianity is entirely irrelevant to theirs who has a different interpretation of Christianity and the Bible.

Your no true Scotsman fallacy logic doesn't actually dictate in reality if someone actually is a Christian. Christians don't actually agree on the interpretation of Christianity to begin with, which you are fully aware.

You adhering to one interpretation over another doesn't change that.

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You can tell yourself that as much as you like, I certainly can't stop you.

However in reality your interpretation and values mean absolutely nothing to Christians who have a different interpretation. Christians do not have the same interpretation of the Bible or Christianity, that's just fact. There's multiple interpretations of that book you love so much.

You can claim they're not true Christians if they dont adhere to your interpretation, and they can equally claim the same thing back that your no true Christians based on their interpreted values.

Ultimately it's a circular discussion proving absolutely nothing but digging into a no Scotsman fallacy.

No true scotsman