Current Events > I seriously hope Valve gets slapped with a major gambling lawsuit soon.

(+) Yeah! (+)

ironman2009 posted...

There's no boxes in cod or fortnite

There's also no fun gameplay

RuneterranSnap posted...

There's also no fun gameplay

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/9/0/5/AAcCNmAAEHph.jpg

ironman2009 posted...

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/9/0/5/AAcCNmAAEHph.jpg

I've tried both. They're not good, and they've gotten worse over time. I vastly prefer CS:GO or Valorant, though admittedly when it comes to FPS I'm far more of an SP person.

more than pokemon cards, what about lotteries in general.

a casino is at least a nice place that gives you free/cheap drinks. it's a place u can have fun.

gas-station cardboard crack exploits already-troubled communities and gives back virtually nothing to society.

It is pretty insane that people pay THOUSANDS for a weapon skin

Robot2600 posted...

more than pokemon cards, what about lotteries in general.

Also bad and I'd love to see them curtailed or removed entirely

Robot2600 posted...

a casino is at least a nice place that gives you free/cheap drinks. it's a place u can have fun.

A lot less fun when you realise they have free/cheap drinks because alcoholics are extremely susceptible to addiction and they do it entirely to attract and ensnare them.

"Here's your new TF2 update!"
(Visibly not excited)
"Aren't you excited? (trying not to laugh) maybe it'll be something good this time!"
(Still wholly unenthralled)
"...It's another lootbox!"
(Disappointment despite having zero expectations)

Robot2600 posted...

more than pokemon cards, what about lotteries in general.

a casino is at least a nice place that gives you free/cheap drinks. it's a place u can have fun.

gas-station cardboard crack exploits already-troubled communities and gives back virtually nothing to society.

Had a friend who used to work in a liquor store and people would come in and buy a whole roll of scratchers

RuneterranSnap posted...

They're directly responsible for creating countless cases of gambling addiction and ruining lives.

Ah the 'ol violent TV causes violence argument.

voldothegr8 posted...

Ah the 'ol violent TV causes violence argument.

Actually it's the ol "gambling causes gambling addiction which ruins lives" argument

Which is entirely supported by science.

lww99 posted...

It is pretty insane that people pay THOUSANDS for a weapon skin

The thing that just doesn't make any sense to me is that the whole point of these skins in the prestige. Like everyone wants an Olympic gold medal but suppose I paid Michael Phelps a million dollars for one of his. What would be the fucking point? I didn't earn it legitimately. Can you imagine some dude walking around with an Olympic gold medal and people like "wow you won an Olympic gold?" And the response is like "nah I just paid a million dollars to someone who did"

Tyranthraxus posted...

The thing that just doesn't make any sense to me is that the whole point of these skins in the prestige. Like everyone wants an Olympic gold medal but suppose I paid Michael Phelps a million dollars for one of his. What would be the fucking point? I didn't earn it legitimately. Can you imagine some dude walking around with an Olympic gold medal and people like "wow you won an Olympic gold?" And the response is like "nah I just paid a million dollars to someone who did"

You would have a point if these things were earnable in-game.

They aren't. Actually unlocking shit has basically gone the way of the dodo. If its even possible, it just requires hundreds of hours of grinding for a single item, which doesn't carry any prestige, anymore.

It's why the "everything can be earned in game" argument is BS. Devs always, ALWAYS throttle progression to make earning rewards in-game as frustrating as possible.

Tyranthraxus posted...

The thing that just doesn't make any sense to me is that the whole point of these skins in the prestige. Like everyone wants an Olympic gold medal but suppose I paid Michael Phelps a million dollars for one of his. What would be the fucking point? I didn't earn it legitimately. Can you imagine some dude walking around with an Olympic gold medal and people like "wow you won an Olympic gold?" And the response is like "nah I just paid a million dollars to someone who did"

These skins generally aren't something you earn, you just get them randomly mostly from lootboxes

lww99 posted...

It is pretty insane that people pay THOUSANDS for a weapon skin

People spend money on hobbies, what can you do. And you'd be surprised how many rich people play videogames. As they say, as long it's not drugs.

Tyranthraxus posted...

The thing that just doesn't make any sense to me is that the whole point of these skins in the prestige. Like everyone wants an Olympic gold medal but suppose I paid Michael Phelps a million dollars for one of his. What would be the fucking point? I didn't earn it legitimately. Can you imagine some dude walking around with an Olympic gold medal and people like "wow you won an Olympic gold?" And the response is like "nah I just paid a million dollars to someone who did"

For some people the point is prestige, for others it's just having a nice looking skin for their weapon.

I got my knife for around 250 in 2015. Thousands and thousands of hours later, it's worth around 1k and I can get around 750-800 real world money for it.

How many games offer you that opportunity. No gambling, just an investment.

Meanwhile you'll buy an annual COD release for $70, spend a hundred or two on their disgusting money grab practices and then you're left with nothing in a couple of years when they release another COD game.

RuneterranSnap posted...

Outside of Vegas gambling is HEAVILY regulated and mostly illegal. In addition to that, promoting it to minors as Valve does is EXTREMELY illegal, and for very good reason because once you form addiction it's there for life.

where are they promoting it to minors? and gambling isn't illegal outside of vegas also no addictions aren't there for life

Never understood why people call lootboxes gambling.

In gaming, you have a chance to get something but you have a higher chance of getting nothing.

Loot boxes have a 100% chance of getting something, you just might not like it. But the fact still stands that you are still guaranteed something.

Getting a dozen or more loot boxes for 20 bucks was way better than forking out 20 bucks for every single skin. Loot boxes were getting better over time and when they went out of style for the fort ni te format, they were actually pretty fair.

majin_nemesis posted...

where are they promoting it to minors?

Minors watch and are even involved in pro games. They promote it all over the place.

majin_nemesis posted...

and gambling isn't illegal outside of vegas also no addictions aren't there for life

Gambling is HEAVILY restricted and largely illegal outside Vegas and yes, addiction is there for life. Once your brain is wired for addiction it doesn't go back.

majin_nemesis posted...

btw games can cause addiction too and i don't see you crying about that

Anything CAN cause addiction. Gambling, like drugs, does it FAR more easily and without any actual abuse happening. If you seriously thought this was a good argument you might need to step out of the discussion because you're out of your league here.

deoxxys posted...

Never understood why people call lootboxes gambling.

In gaming, you have a chance to get something but you have a higher chance of getting nothing.

Loot boxes have a 100% chance of getting something, You just might not like it

That's still objectively gambling. Not all gambling has the chance of zero payout.

RuneterranSnap posted...

That's still objectively gambling. Not all gambling has the chance of zero payout.

How's that any different from paying for a booster pack of cards?

You have no clue what you're going to get, same deal

DragonClaw01 posted...

It's worse than gambling. You are better off going to a casino & playing the slots because at least you are usually getting a 80+% payout, often 90%. The payout ratios on the these skins are like 10%, often less. I don't see how anyone can have fun losing that often.

Payout ratio on the average slot machine is under 10%. The house always wins.

deoxxys posted...

How's that any different from paying for a booster pack of cards?

That's also gambling.

daynlokki posted...

Payout ratio on the average slot machine is under 10%. The house always wins.

It's gotta be way better than 10. So many times you'll drop 5 coins and win 4.

deoxxys posted...

How's that any different from paying for a booster pack of cards?

You have no clue what you're going to get, same deal

We already went over this. They ARE gambling.

If slot machines were programmed so that, no matter what, they always dispensed at least a single sheet of single-ply toilet paper in addition to whatever else at every spin, they wouldn't magically become "not gambling" just because you're technically always getting a payout (and a known payout at that).

Also, Valve can't get banned because you're guaranteed to get something from every box and valve doesn't decide the value of anything on the market, the community does. So they can easily win a case if they claim everything is arbitrary.

GunmaN1905 posted...

Also, Valve can't get banned because you're guaranteed to get something from every box and valve doesn't decide the value of anything on the market, the community does. So they can easily win a case if they claim everything is arbitrary.

None of this matters. You've made enough of a fool of yourself here, leave.

RuneterranSnap posted...

None of this matters. You've made enough of a fool of yourself here, leave.

It definitely matters in any lawsuit about gambling since what he brought up literally makes it not fit the legal definition.

RuneterranSnap posted...

None of this matters. You've made enough of a fool of yourself here, leave.

Nah, I feel like giving some more free education. Pay attention, maybe you learn something and then when you register with yet another account, you won't look like a clown.

Tyranthraxus posted...

It's gotta be way better than 10. So many times you'll drop 5 coins and win 4.

Dropping 5 and winning back 4 is you losing 20%.

GunmaN1905 posted...

Nah, I feel like giving some more free education. Pay attention, maybe you learn something and then when you register with yet another account, you won't look like a clown.

Well since you can't follow instructions I'll just remove you from the discussion.

daynlokki posted...

It definitely matters in any lawsuit about gambling since what he brought up literally makes it not fit the legal definition.

No it doesn't. Gambling does not have to have the chance of no payout to be considered gambling, and even if it did, if you were able to read you'd be able to see the loot crates aren't the only issue here.

RuneterranSnap posted...

No it doesn't. Gambling does not have to have the chance of no payout to be considered gambling, and even if it did, if you were able to read you'd be able to see the loot crates aren't the only issue here.

Seems you didnt comprehend what he said. Because what he said, literally negates it as gambling in the US by definition. Should go back, and read what he said but slowly this time to maybe fix that reading comprehension error on your part.

daynlokki posted...

Dropping 5 and winning back 4 is you losing 20%.

It's a win of 40%

Winnings probabilities for most games at casinos hover around winning about 49% of your bet across all games.

For example, I bet 100 roulette black, lose, I bet about 100 on black, I win 200. Total: I've won nothing I'm just back to square 1, this is a 50% winrate, however the exists of 2 numbers that are neither red nor black means neither of those bets actually have a 50% chance of winning. Over 1000s of games, the lost 1% adds up for the house, aka, house always wins.

Nobody would play a slot machine where you lost all your money every time you play. They're too smart for that, so they make you win a lot of times, you just win slightly less than your bet. They also do tricks like drop 5, win 6, drop 5 again, win 3. Overall you're down 1 from when you started but you'll remember that time you won 6 and keep playing.

Gambling is a dirty game of math and psychological tricks designed not to make you lose all your money at once but to make you play for so long that you eventually lose it all over the course of several days.

daynlokki posted...

Seems you didnt comprehend what he said. Because what he said, literally negates it as gambling in the US by definition. Should go back, and read what he said but slowly this time to maybe fix that reading comprehension error on your part.

No, I got it right. Tell you what, you can remove yourself to, you're no longer welcome in the discussion.

RuneterranSnap posted...

No, I got it right. Tell you what, you can remove yourself to, you're no longer welcome in the discussion.

Oh no youre gonna block me for the THIRD time now to just unblock me later. What will I ever do?!

Just unhinged behavior from a child.

daynlokki posted...

Oh no youre gonna block me for the THIRD time now to just unblock me later. What will I ever do?!

Just unhinged behavior from a child.

Irony. Enjoy your timeout.

RuneterranSnap posted...

Minors watch and are even involved in pro games. They promote it all over the place.

so are adults and games like CS GO aren't for kids

Gambling is HEAVILY restricted and largely illegal outside Vegas and yes, addiction is there for life. Once your brain is wired for addiction it doesn't go back.

that's just BS

Anything CAN cause addiction. Gambling, like drugs, does it FAR more easily and without any actual abuse happening. If you seriously thought this was a good argument you might need to step out of the discussion because you're out of your league here.

nope

majin_nemesis posted...

so are adults and games like CS GO aren't for kids

They literally are.

majin_nemesis posted...

that's just BS

No, everything I said is fact.

RuneterranSnap posted...

They literally are.

they aren't which is why CS:GO has a M rating and in europe it has a PEGI18 rating

No, everything I said is fact.

nope it's not, addiction isn't there for life if your brain can be wired one way it can also be rewired another way

majin_nemesis posted...

nope it's not, addiction isn't there for life if your brain can be wired one way it can also be rewired another way

It can be. We have no way to do it though. Thus, addiction is for life.

majin_nemesis posted...

they aren't which is why CS:GO has a M rating and in europe it has a PEGI18 rating

Ratings don't matter, kids still play the games and it's encouraged by Valve.

RuneterranSnap posted...

It can be. We have no way to do it though. Thus, addiction is for life.

nope

Ratings don't matter, kids still play the games and it's encouraged by Valve.

by that logic, porn movies need to be stopped because kids watch them or other movies and games need to be completely sanitized because kids might watch them,tons of things neeed to disappear or be censored because kids might watch them

the games aren't for kids and your kids aren't valve's problem,it's the parents that need to not give money to use in stuff like that and also teach them how to be responsible with their money

majin_nemesis posted...

nope

Mmk you're done here.

RuneterranSnap posted...

Mmk you're done here.

dude there's ways to rewire and train your brain and yourself to overcome addictions especially ones that aren't physical addictions like drugs,gambling isn't a drug it's more a behavior issue then it is an addiction just learn to control it,jsut like people control gaming addictions or other addictions of the same nature

majin_nemesis posted...

dude there's ways to rewire and train your brain and yourself to overcome addictions especially ones that aren't physical addictions like drugs,gambling isn't a drug it's more a behavior issue then it is an addiction just learn to control it,jsut like people control gaming addictions or other addictions of the same nature

I said you're done. Leave.

Tyranthraxus posted...

It's a win of 40%

Winnings probabilities for most games at casinos hover around winning about 49% of your bet across all games.

For example, I bet 100 roulette black, lose, I bet about 100 on black, I win 200. Total: I've won nothing I'm just back to square 1, this is a 50% winrate, however the exists of 2 numbers that are neither red nor black means neither of those bets actually have a 50% chance of winning. Over 1000s of games, the lost 1% adds up for the house, aka, house always wins.

Nobody would play a slot machine where you lost all your money every time you play. They're too smart for that, so they make you win a lot of times, you just win slightly less than your bet. They also do tricks like drop 5, win 6, drop 5 again, win 3. Overall you're down 1 from when you started but you'll remember that time you won 6 and keep playing.

Gambling is a dirty game of math and psychological tricks designed not to make you lose all your money at once but to make you play for so long that you eventually lose it all over the course of several days.

Slot machines in the US have to payback 80 cents for every dollar that goes into the machine. It can be paid out any way they want, fast or slow, but they have to eventually pay that out on average. But I would imagine frequent payouts would be the best to maximize player retention.

Opening CS lootboxes is the worse of both worlds. Not only are you usually going to only get about $100 on average for every $1,000 put in, but it is highly back loaded. Every skin you draw is virtually worthless, mere pennies, until you draw a knife or gloves, which tend to be around $500 on average. It is like a lottery more than a slot machine.

I am flabbergasted that the community allows it. Even something like trading cards you will have close to a whole set by opening a booster box (yeah, you will be missing quite a few mythics, but you will have a bunch of rares, uncommons & commons). Valve skins are like you spend a $100 and get 40 of the same exact 5 cent skins. It is the most inefficient way to get skins if that were the primary purpose.

Plus Valve knows what they are doing. They could set the odds to get the better stuff higher, but they keep it artifically low to create scarcity and therefore drive up the market. Yeah, they can say the community sets the prices, but they are responsible for creating the odds & therefore partially responsible for the price.

If people wanna gamble, whats the issue? Do we suddenly care about people sidestepping paying the IRS, or is this a morality issue involving kids or something? Either way, I see it as a non issue.

DragonClaw01 posted...

Slot machines in the US have to payback 80 cents for every dollar that goes into the machine. It can be paid out any way they want, fast or slow, but they have to eventually pay that out on average. But I would imagine frequent payouts would be the best to maximize player retention.

And in Vegas the average is somewhere around 93%. Even airport slots are around 88% which is about the lowest you'll find, and many high roller machines are 97%.

Payzmaykr posted...

If people wanna gamble, whats the issue? Do we suddenly care about people sidestepping paying the IRS, or is this a morality issue involving kids or something? Either way, I see it as a non issue.

Because gambling addiction is a thing that tends to ruin lives.