Board 8 > Most Evil Fictional Character: Calvin Candie vs. Yami Marik (TIEBREAKER)

(+) Yeah! (+)

(This is a TIEBREAKER match following yesterday's tie. If you need to see yesterday's arguments and debates, they can be found here: https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/8-gamefaqs-contests/80575730

Make sure you vote in THIS topic!)

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Welcome to the 2023 edition of Most Evil Fictional Character, a single-elimination tournament to determine the most evil fictional character of all time!

Here's the bracket:

https://www.bracketmaker.com/tmenu.cfm?tid=477621&tclass=

And here's the discussion topic:

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/8-gamefaqs-contests/80568652

And here are the rules:

-First and foremost, YOU MUST BOLD YOUR VOTE FOR IT TO COUNT. The reason for this is that these topics encourage a lot of discussion and debate, and it helps me to distinguish a vote from simple discussion if all votes are bolded. So, I state again, ALL VOTES MUST BE BOLDED FOR THEM TO COUNT. I reserve the right to be lenient in early topics if people just aren't getting it, but for the most part, IF YOUR VOTE ISN'T BOLDED, IT WON'T COUNT.

-You must vote for which of the two characters you honestly believe to be the more evil of the two. You can determine this via any method you like, use your own morals and judgement, read all the arguments made to determine your choice, or however you choose to make your pick, but you must only vote for the one you truly believe is the most evil. This isn't a death battle, or a popularity contest. You're voting ONLY for the most evil character out of the two choices presented.

-While on that subject, remember that because this isn't a death battle or a fighting tournament, do your absolute best to consider the two characters as if their power levels were equal (either the weaker character brought up to the level of the strongest, or vice versa, or both if you want to consider both possibilities). Therefore, just because, for example, one of the characters blew up a planet and the other one merely kicked a puppy, doesn't necessarily mean the planet killer is more evil than the puppy kicker. Consider the characters as if they have the exact same capabilities and what they might do in that scenario.

-You can make any arguments, debates, etc. you want in this topic. Discussion is STRONGLY encouraged, a fun debate about which of the two characters is most evil is exactly what these topics are for. Just don't make it personal, no insults or flaming, keep things civil even if you disagree. Also, no vote rallying, if you want to encourage people to vote for your character you need to at least make some semblance of an argument as to why, even if it's just "Character X did (really dastardly thing), I can't believe no one's voting for them!"

-Voting will continue for exactly 24 hours after the post is made. If there's a tie, there will be a new 24 hour topic. This will continue indefinitely until a winner is determined.

-YOU MUST BOLD YOUR VOTE FOR IT TO COUNT.

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The following write-ups will contain untagged SPOILERS for Django Unchained and Yu-Gi-Oh.

CALVIN CANDIE

Calvin Candie is the primary antagonist of Django Unchained.

Calvin Candie is a Mississippi slave owner who owns a large plantation known as Candieland. Candie is a detestable individual who views his slaves harshly as his property and participates in blood sports, forcing male slaves to fight to the death for money. His female slaves are often forced into prostitution. He sees people of color as beneath him and little more than property. The depths of his depravity are seen when he gives Django and Dr. Schultz a lecture on his belief that people of color are biologically inferior using pseudoscience, using a deceased slave's skull as evidence. After King Schultz and Django attempted to trick him into selling Broomhilda (using the prospect of purchasing a more expensive slave along with her to win an audience with him), Candie returned to the dining room and gradually reveals Schultz's and Django's deception to them, subsequently losing his calm demeanor and eventually snaps, revealing his sick and devious nature by threatening to beat Broomhilda to death with a hammer if Dr. Schultz does not pay $12,000 for her. After signing Broomhilda over, Candie then tries to convince Schultz to shake his hand to seal their transaction, otherwise he will have Broomhilda shot on sight. Calvin is also extremely cold-hearted; sadistic, and cruel, taking incredible delight in watching two black men viciously fight right in front of him, and cheering when one gouges out the other's eyes, before first ordering and then demanding the victorious slave to finish off the defeated challenger with a hammer. He also casually orders one of his slaves to be devoured alive by dogs, all while looking Django in the eye, with a look of uncaring contempt.

vs.

YAMI MARIK

Yami Marik is a major antagonist in the anime and manga Yu-Gi-Oh!

Yami Marik is Marik Ishtar's second personality created by his own inner hatred and pain. Yami Marik is a person of pure cruelty, wickedness, and insanity who cares for no one but himself, as he was born of hate, anger, and envy. Yami Marik ruthlessly murdered his father, and was constantly trying to kill Odion for being a hindrance to his existence in the outside, and threatened Ishizu with death for hiding their brother. Yami Marik didn't seem to have any goal except for spreading pain and suffering in the world, and also having his own life in the real world, because he has no desire to be sealed away and he considers himself the "true" Marik. In the dub however, he shares Marik's goal of taking the Pharaoh's power and world domination in addition to his sadistic desire to spread pain. Before his death, he tried to reason with Marik saying that they could rule the world together; however, given his personality, he was merely trying to convince Marik to free him from his predicament. Yami Marik lacks empathy and is highly sadistic; building his Deck around torture-themed cards, and using his shadow powers to manifest them into reality, painfully hurting his opponents for his own pleasures. After winning against Mai in the quarterfinals, Yami Marik trapped Mai's soul, where she is slowly buried in sand in an hourglass inside her mind. This left Mai with little more than a day to live before the torture killed her. Yami Marik transformed his Duel with Joey into a Shadow Game, connecting the Duelists to their monsters so that they'd feel the pain their monsters did. Joey attempted to attack Marik directly but collapsed from the Shadow Game and was unable to continue to claim victory. During his last Duel, he even stated that he got the most twisted pleasure from torturing Yami Yugi.

Calvin Candie

Looking through things, I'd have to give it to Calvin Candie

Marik's reasoning is valid in his mind, and he has hatred for one person... the fact the crazy aspect of him exists within doesn't mean as much when it's just Marik that dealt the most of the things himself without crazy being in control.

I will say after thinking about it while its a close match there a few reasons I would go with Candie. The way he specifically exults in slavery, torture, and the killing of his slaves (who he already owns) makes him at least as sadistic as Yami Marik, except with the added element of racism. I think that probably gives Candie an edge. To rebut a couple of arguments from the last topic, Yami Marik came about as a result of Mariks father threatening to kill Odion so I think there is an ability to form connections there as there is with Candie, just in a purely selfish way for both. Also Candie not doing the killing personally is definitely intended to make him worse, one of the most memorable scenes of the movie shows the anguish on a slaves face as hes forced to kill another slave by Candie. It is close though!

Edit: Oh also as an aside, Yami Mariks writeup reminds me of how BS his win facing Joey was. Yeah he had to win because plot but the way it happened just made it more obvious!

LightningStrikes posted...

Edit: Oh also as an aside, Yami Mariks writeup reminds me of how BS his win facing Joey was. Yeah he had to win because plot but the way it happened just made it more obvious!

Kaiba just didnt want Joey getting Ra.

LightningStrikes posted...

Oh also as an aside, Yami Mariks writeup reminds me of how BS his win facing Joey was. Yeah he had to win because plot but the way it happened just made it more obvious!

Tbh there are so many bs wins in that show

Anyway sticking with Yami Marik

Calvin Candie

Even Tarantino hates him more than his other villains

Johnbobb posted...

Tbh there are so many bs wins in that show

Let's be fair, the entire first season or two was bs in the rules.

It was to the degree of being close on how much stuff the USS enterprise makes things up.

Still going with Yami Marik here!

I feel like a lot of Calvin's evil can be attributed to his society and that if it wasn't so profitable for him to treat slaves as he did he wouldn't. Not that that excuses him per se and not to say he doesn't go above and beyond "business" nor to say wanton greed to the extent where youd inflict suffering on people isn't evil but it hurts him as a top tier entrant imo.

Can't really say I know enough about the other character to be sure though. Reads like the character is the result of a psychotic break from trauma which also hurts evil credentials to me.

I feel like Calvin is the right vote here but wish we had actual arguments in these topics for matches like these.

Lopen posted...

Can't really say I know enough about the other character to be sure though. Reads like the character is the result of a psychotic break from trauma which also hurts evil credentials to me.

Kind of? This is all from memory so any YGO loreheads can correct me on this but I think the idea is that the traumatic event awoke the evil within Marik. Normally the Yami personas are possession by an ancient spirit but Yami Marik just seems to be a split personality (the series is pretty vague on this). Either way Yami Marik is considered to be his own standalone character and can be judged on his terms.

I don't think you can attribute Calvin's attitudes to society. Keep in mind that he subscribes to the theory of Phrenology which was debunked way earlier (by a french physician no less! And we all know how much Monsieur Candie loves the French). And saying "That's just what they did in those days!" is always a weird argument to have. It's like the argument the Nazi's had. "Just following orders." I also don't think he actually cares about his sister or Stephen, except in what they provide (or could provide) for him. On the other hand, I do think he would have let Schultz purchase Broomhilda for $12k as long as he got his handshake. But I don't think it was out of any interest of fairness or law, but because Broomhilda was pretty much worthless to him as a possession and he needed to humiliate Schultz for his own validation. What keeps him in the conversation at all is that while he's an evil that's within the bounds of the law, he's also not below extortion. He'd kill Broomhilda if Schultz didn't pay him. If Schultz paid him, she wouldn't be his property, and so he wouldn't be allowed to kill her by law. But I don't think he follows the law out of some sort of honor system, but rather because he needs to in order to be considered a 'gentleman'.

For Yami Marik... I just don't know anything about Yu-Gi-Oh to feel comfortable voting for him or not. I know they do card battles, and I've watched a few clips. But I don't feel I understand the context of any of it. Without a better understanding of the world, I don't have a good understanding of the character. He sounds more 'pure evil' than Candie, but I don't think being more pure evil necessarily makes you more evil. Though I do think it gives you an edge in which is more evil. Though with beings like this, which seem to be born of some sort of malice.. I feel like it's more evil to have the ability to do good, and choose not to than if you don't have a choice at all because you were made that way. It's kind of like the reverse of Paarthurnax quotes: Is it worse to be born evil, or to overcome your good nature through great effort?

Dancedreamer posted...

And saying "That's just what they did in those days!" is always a weird argument to have. It's like the argument the Nazi's had.

I'm not saying he isn't evil more that he isn't notably more evil than most plantation owners in those days and if you dropped him into today he'd probably just be some exploitative corporation owner instead which while still evil isn't really something worth talking about in this field.

The thing is although slavery was legal and accepted in the time not everyone that wasn't a slave owned a plantation so we aren't talking about something on the level of pure numbers as Nazis either. I fully believe basically everyone who had a huge number of slaves had to be pretty darn evil though, and that those types of people still exist today heading corporations or hedge funds or whatever else.

In the last topic I noted that what I found so evil about Candie (besides the obvious) is how he liked to get other people's hands dirty. This wasn't out of convenience. This was part of the thrill to him - to compel other people to enact the violence and thus spread culpability.

Take the fight he orders between two slaves, where he forces the "victor" to bludgeon the loser to death. The victor is rewarded with a beer and instructed to "enjoy it" because Candie was satisfied to see his corruption spread to the defenseless.

Yeah

He's definite above and beyond a bit. Kinda like if a Plantation Owner got the Captain America serum or something. Peak Plantation Owner. But still would call extreme greed his biggest sin with the way to making that money most efficiently being so awful due to his world setting-- a top tier evil person isn't negotiating for Broomhilda to begin with for example because they'd rather maintain control than have $12000.

Anyway he's clearly got the win here and I think that's likely correct but think the character would not seem quite so gross in a different world setting is all I'm saying which is why I think he's a middling entrant.