Board 8 > Blade Mafia 5 Topic 6: Into The Kittenverse

(+) Yeah! (+)

Also If I'm counting right 6 people do not have a vote down currently:
BCT, Chang, Ctes, IGCD, Peaf, Wallz

changmas posted...

ultimately though it may be worth trusting in red who is generally not this gungho about a particular lynch and i am liable to trust him because of that

Even the great and might red can be wrong.

And spoilers: he's wrong.

Most everyone today has made a comment about how my lynch "doesn't feel right" and yet almost everyone down line is showing willingness to fall in line when the time comes. No one will look sus for waiting to vote, scum gets point to how they said they didn't fully trust the lynch on me after I'm revealed to be town. It just fully stinks from start to finish and only a couple people have had the courage to say they won't vote me and I don't even know if I can trust them or if they are just posturing so they can look better in an hour and tell the rest of you that they were right tomorrow.

changmas posted...

personally this role is way more anti-town than sultan's fake 24 hour no talking limitation and he got killed for that!

It's not that anti-town in itself, slightly, but not much. When SBell flipped I personally thought it was put in to balance out the missing flip from his role but alright.

htaeD posted...

Also minor note
FD apparently spent all night arguing that Corrik was scum

Changmas, did or does any of that sound rehearsed to you now?
Because scum might have planned to shoot Corrik early on during the night

hmmm at the time it all felt reasonable to me. there's really no reason it couldn't be faked though, except that you would have to willingly bash your head against the wall arguing with corrik for at least an hour, for an audience of one (me).

it wouldn't be my choice, but if he was really committed to it then it's within the realm of possibility

wallmasterz posted...

Following along with Changs I see everything in my neighborhood comment, Chang, when did you claim to tell FD you got a gift and didnt actually see everything? Or did you never leave FD with that impression in your neighbor chat?

after night actions were locked in on night 2 so it couldn't impact scum n2 decisions if FD was in fact scum

Forceful_Dragon posted...

Also If I'm counting right 6 people do not have a vote down currently:
BCT, Chang, Ctes, IGCD, Peaf, Wallz

Alright

##vote: FD

My hat is off for your effort but this is by far the simplest explanation.

ctesjbuvf posted...

It's not that anti-town in itself, slightly, but not much. When SBell flipped I personally thought it was put in to balance out the missing flip from his role but alright.

That only fits if scum gets to PICK which town role gets flipped and you stated it's random. And at that point I would assume it would be randomly between town members who are still alive and not be relevant to whoever was killed by the Looper ability. It's just straight up scum getting a free role scan when you're killed. Now granted if most everyone was telling the truth today then they stand to gain much less than they would have before, but I don't see a proper interaction with what happened to Lea

ctesjbuvf posted...

It's not that anti-town in itself, slightly, but not much. When SBell flipped I personally thought it was put in to balance out the missing flip from his role but alright.

the missing flip hurts town equally or more than it hurts scum. i don't think this tracks

ctesjbuvf posted...

simplest explanation.

Scum targeting me is "simple". It requires ONE action to have occurred.
Scum targeting Plum is "simple". It requires ONE action to have occurred.

There is nothing complicated about those scenarios, there is just an argument to be made for how likely scum would have been to target either plum or myself with a kill. So you can argue the probability, but it's nothing if not simple.

also the role is insanely swingy

kill ctes night 1 and find the jailmaster vs finding a vanilla

isn't that too much

I mean, if you think it doesn't even that out maybe it doesn't. I just thought that it gives them a flip they otherwise prevent.

Day end in what 34mins?

Forceful_Dragon posted...

Scum targeting me is "simple". It requires ONE action to have occurred.
Scum targeting Plum is "simple". It requires ONE action to have occurred.

There is nothing complicated about those scenarios, there is just an argument to be made for how likely scum would have been to target either plum or myself with a kill. So you can argue the probability, but it's nothing if not simple.

Simplest, also most likely.

the wording doesn't suggest it would flip Lea's unknown info at all though

IfGodCouldDie posted...

Day end in what 34mins?

Yup. I'm prepared to sulk the entire duration.

But then I'll get to work on my post game I-fucking-told-you-so speech so at least I won't be bored.

changmas posted...

the wording doesn't suggest it would flip Lea's unknown info at all though

That's not what I meant

ctesjbuvf posted...

Simplest, also most likely.

Neither of those things have any bearing on the reality of what occurred. You're going to open Schrodinger's box and all you're going to find is an innocent FD and no amount of perceived probability is going to change that.

ctesjbuvf posted...

That's not what I meant

Right but we have a situation where there is 1 non-flip (which is bad for everyone)

And then one flip that will only be revealed to scum (which is bad for specifically town).

And as chang is mentioning it has the potential to set a either a ridiculously terrible or ridiculously lukewarm series of events into motion, particularly if you happened to be triggered very early on.

[4] FD - (Isquen), Red, (BCT), Sheep, Death, Ctes
[2] Wallz - (BCT), (Isquen), FD, Isquen
[1] Red - (Ulti), Ulti
[0] BCT - (Ulti), (IGCD), (FD), (FD)
[0] Isquen - (Ulti), (Ulti), (FD), (Ulti)
[0] Peaf - (FD)
[0] Ctes - (FD)

Day ends in approximately 30 minutes, though I may be late to call the stop so don't get yourselves modkilled <3

Forceful_Dragon posted...

Right but we have a situation where there is 1 non-flip (which is bad for everyone)

And then one flip that will only be revealed to scum (which is bad for specifically town).

And as chang is mentioning it has the potential to set a either a ridiculously terrible or ridiculously lukewarm series of events into motion, particularly if you happened to be triggered very early on.

But scum has control over the non flip.

So you're saying it's swingy? So?

it's also straight messed up peaf didn't use his ability today for basically no reason at all

i fail to see how waiting an additional day accomplishes anything at all besides stalling

ctesjbuvf posted...

But scum has control over the non flip.

So you're saying it's swingy? So?

A swingy mechanic that functions entirely on RNG is pretty bad game design.

Scum may have control over when they pull the trigger on you, but they have no control over what your role would reveal to them which would have an incredible impact on the potential value of the existence of your role.

Sure there are roles that can either be very valuable or very not-valuable depending on how the person assigned that role pilots them. But the value of your role has nothing to do with anyone piloting their role and just the luck of the draw of what information scum is given.

ctesjbuvf posted...

But scum has control over the non flip.

So you're saying it's swingy? So?

i mean it's generally pretty bad to have a swingy game for effectively no reason. it's not even like a cool role or anything it would literally just exist to introduce a totally random factor for shits and giggles

I don't think it's a particularly fun role either, I don't have any answer for any of this

But lots of roles are swingy to some degree

changmas posted...

it's also straight messed up peaf didn't use his ability today for basically no reason at all

i fail to see how waiting an additional day accomplishes anything at all besides stalling

You're right, it is messed up. Let's get him.

##Unvote
##Vote: Peaf

He's on my list both because Plum was suspicious of him (supporting the idea that Plum might have actually been targeted by scum) AND the fact that the role he is claiming is bonkers. Two consecutive games with DTC access? Two consecutive games where DTC is forced to be uninformed? And in this case he magically becomes super guilty to all investigations after usage? And he made all kinds of demands yesterday for DTC to format things a specific way only to not managing to find even 5 minutes to take a peak?

I don't know if I believe Ctes and that "Singer" role is on MafiaScum Wiki. And I know Ctes gets crafty with fake claims as scum. I still don't trust him very much.

If Red is claiming the hits on both SBell and Plum, I see two possibilities. Either Lea was a bomb who blew SBell up on the D1 time loop (Blade can get creative, so it wouldn't surprise me if her role was a "DocBomb" or something like that), thus giving Red his vig shot back since SBell was already dead, or he's SK, or he's scum doing some creative gambit.

If it's the first one, Red would've told us what happened. So he's most definitely not town vig.

##vote: Red

ctesjbuvf posted...

But lots of roles are swingy to some degree

Yes, but they are swingy to the degree that other humans make decisions and actions.

Not to the degree that a random number generated spits out a 3 instead of a 14.

Peaf being a liar about DTC is not helpful but N1 circumstances temporarily exonerate him. That's a no from me.

Isquen posted...

N1 circumstances temporarily exonerate him.

We already know that SBell targeted Lea and Dumey targeted Corrik.

All your JK on Peaf n1 does is confirm he's not the blocker who targeted IGCD. It doesn't make him not one of the other scum.

##Vote: Peaf

I agree peaf seems to be stalling using his claimed role when if true it has a chance of helping town and for someone who told us to play solely on vibes in the beginning hes not passing the vibe check today at all.

Im not convinced FD is definitely town but why would he risk being seen leaving the neighborhood by Chang before he knew the true nature of Changs role, unless FD and Chang are scum together which I doubt.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/6/9/4/AAXBdhAAE7Wu.jpg

BlueCrystalTear posted...

I don't know if I believe Ctes and that "Singer" role is on MafiaScum Wiki. And I know Ctes gets crafty with fake claims as scum. I still don't trust him very much.

If Red is claiming the hits on both SBell and Plum, I see two possibilities. Either Lea was a bomb who blew SBell up on the D1 time loop (Blade can get creative, so it wouldn't surprise me if her role was a "DocBomb" or something like that), thus giving Red his vig shot back since SBell was already dead, or he's SK, or he's scum doing some creative gambit.

If it's the first one, Red would've told us what happened. So he's most definitely not town vig.

##vote: Red

You do not even recognize the possibility he claimed when he claimed his role?

BlueCrystalTear posted...

I don't know if I believe Ctes and that "Singer" role is on MafiaScum Wiki. And I know Ctes gets crafty with fake claims as scum. I still don't trust him very much.

If Red is claiming the hits on both SBell and Plum, I see two possibilities. Either Lea was a bomb who blew SBell up on the D1 time loop (Blade can get creative, so it wouldn't surprise me if her role was a "DocBomb" or something like that), thus giving Red his vig shot back since SBell was already dead, or he's SK, or he's scum doing some creative gambit.

If it's the first one, Red would've told us what happened. So he's most definitely not town vig.

##vote: Red

It is a struggle to decipher what you are trying to say here but this is top 10 one of the worst posts in b8 mafia history. Maybe top 5. Probably top 5. I dont even know how to respond to it because its not logical and its not even...just no. Someone else can take time with it if someone wants.

Leafeon13N posted...

It is a struggle to decipher what you are trying to say here but this is top 10 one of the worst posts in b8 mafia history. Maybe top 5. Probably top 5. I dont even know how to respond to it because its not logical and its not even...just no. Someone else can take time with it if someone wants.

He doesn't seem to fully grasp game mechanics which is why everything he's said today about his self-bus and the roleblock message he received is entirely bonkers.

I've already outlined numerous times why you almost certainly have to be town vig. The edge case for that not being true now involves Lea being the town vig that you somehow found out about? It's out there.

Or I guess Death's final action could be a gun? Though iirc I think he said it wasn't?

I couldn't find your full claim, Red. That's why I was drawing bonkers conclusions. Excuse me for trying to share my state of mind. I will go inactive from here, since apparently saying anything isn't a good idea.

##unvote


Forceful_Dragon posted...

He doesn't seem to fully grasp game mechanics which is why everything he's said today about his self-bus and the roleblock message he received is entirely bonkers.

I understand them perfectly, and I am very offended by your post here. This is not acceptable behavior.

Gonna request a modkill of FD here. You don't make personal attacks like that.

BlueCrystalTear posted...

I understand them perfectly, and I am very offended by your post here. This is not acceptable behavior.

You have never once said "you are right, it doesn't make sense for me to receive a roleblock message" which is the only acceptable reaction to have even if you are the one who purportedly received it.

Don't go that route

BlueCrystalTear posted...

Gonna request a modkill of FD here. You don't make personal attacks like that.

That was not a personal attack, that was a matter of fact observation.

Ulti knows all about personal attacks, maybe he can clarify the distinction between the two.

There are some people I don't understand why they don't have a vote down

Forceful_Dragon posted...

You have never once said "you are right, it doesn't make sense for me to receive a roleblock message" which is the only acceptable reaction to have even if you are the one who purportedly received it.

You are wrong, it makes perfect sense for me to receive the message that I did, because I received said message.

You clearly don't understand how mechanics work. Crescent explained them to me and I relayed them to everyone, and you keep telling me I'm wrong.

Sorry for being smarter than you!

ctesjbuvf posted...

There are some people I don't understand why they don't have a vote down

Peaf, IGCD and Chang are the remaining 3

BlueCrystalTear posted...

You are wrong, it makes perfect sense for me to receive the message that I did, because I received said message.

You clearly don't understand how mechanics work. Crescent explained them to me and I relayed them to everyone, and you keep telling me I'm wrong.

Sorry for being smarter than you!

you have never once acknowledged the paradoxical nature of you receiving that message.

I understand if your stance is "crescent said this is how the interaction works so that's just the way it goes".

But you have not demonstrated to me that you understand my position on why that doesn't seem like it should resolve that way despite my repeated attempts to detail the paradox.

man i really dont even know

##Vote: Peaf i guess

BlueCrystalTear posted...

You are wrong, it makes perfect sense for me to receive the message that I did, because I received said message.

That's not the same thing

And we're back to emotionally reacting to someone who said something "mean" to you, despite you saying earlier you didn't like the lynch against me.