Current Events > Hamas is bad, the Israeli government is bad.

(+) Yeah! (+)

You're supposed to side with the innocent civilians who are being slaughtered en masse by both sides.

Careful , you might be labeled a Hamas Supporter by some users (Not me) for having that kind of neutral attitude.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/2/2/6/AAEoKCAAE8tK.jpg

I absolutely agree , atrocities should be called out no matter who commited them , whether it is the IDF or HAMAS.

Evil is Evil.

Edited for Clarity

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

He's not saying he thinks that, he's saying it's likely that you'll get angry tantrum responses from people who think that. Which is 100% accurate.

Imagine being against both terrorism and war crimes

With the benefit of internet anonymity, certain people like to pretend that every conflict is 100% good vs 100% evil because it gets a rise out of others.

b 0 t H S i D e S

You'd be surprised at how many people are conflating that Hamas=all Palestinians and Israel=all jews.

Basically people who have no idea how complicated the situation is and want to boil it down to a non-nuanced show.

Seen too many supposedly educated people throw the word "genocide" about Israel retaliating. Imo, if Israel wanted to eradicate Palestinians, they've could've already been done with it with how much more advanced its military and tech is compared to Palestine.

Too many chronically online people in leftist echo chambers are behaving like far rightists: Not double or triple checking sources, pleading towards emotion, spreading misinfo when more details come out and not even correcting themselves when more info comes out.

Especially since Hamas and the IDF do not have good track records of reporting the truth accurately.

Pitbuller_26 posted...

Basically people who have no idea how complicated the situation is

This is one of the incredibly rare times where I'm self aware enough to have no strong opinion on the matter precisely because of that reason. I don't know enough of the situation and even if I were to study up on the subject, I feel like it still wouldn't be sufficient. I just wish most people and especially celebrities could do the same.

It's kind of sad that some people are so anti-Zionist they can't bring themselves to condemn Hamas.

Nobody itt, but I have noticed it under past conflicts involving Hamas.

It's not a both sides issue

My issue is everyone condemns Hamas, not many condemn Israel's government

Alchemist_Emil posted...

It's not a both sides issue

So which side has not broken any human rights or done no war crimes?

For the most part isn't Hamas a terrorist group that operates primarily out of Palestine?

If a terrorist group came into Canada and murdered a bunch of people at a music festival I would expect my government to go after the terrorist group.

TheSavageDragon posted...

This is one of the incredibly rare times where I'm self aware enough to have no strong opinion on the matter precisely because of that reason. I don't know enough of the situation and even if I were to study up on the subject, I feel like it still wouldn't be sufficient. I just wish most people and especially celebrities could do the same.

After all of this, the simplest way I can boil it down to in my mind is this (my opinion, not fact): Palestine will never be free or liberated as long as Hamas exists. Learning that Hamas terrorizes its own people (Palestinians) whether as human shields, civilian areas as arms storage, I just don't see any hope for Palestinians with Hamas having control.

Hell, even the Palestinian president hates Hamas but can't do much about them.

Alchemist_Emil posted...

It's not a both sides issue

It's literally one of the few things in politics today that is though.

Jeff_AKA_Snoopy posted...

For the most part isn't Hamas a terrorist group that operates primarily out of Palestine?

If a terrorist group came into Canada and murdered a bunch of people at a music festival I would expect my government to go after the terrorist group.

Not to mention said terrorist group killing and taking hostages: the victims being from a multitude of countries. Hence why the international dogpile against Hamas.

Jeff_AKA_Snoopy posted...

For the most part isn't Hamas a terrorist group that operates primarily out of Palestine?

If a terrorist group came into Canada and murdered a bunch of people at a music festival I would expect my government to go after the terrorist group.

So you would be fine with if Canadian separatists commit a terror act and then Canada bombs Toronto?

ButteryMales posted...

So you would be fine with if Canadian separatists commit a terror act and then Canada bombs Toronto?

I'm trying to wrap my head around the idea. So, Canadian citizens commit domestic terrorism, and the idea is that the Canadian government bombs their own city to kill the domestic terrorists?

That would most definitely be a silly plan.

Jeff_AKA_Snoopy posted...

I'm trying to wrap my head around the idea. So, Canadian citizens commit domestic terrorism, and the idea is that the Canadian government bombs their own city to kill the domestic terrorists?

That would most definitely be a silly plan.

Seems like you don't know shit about what's happening.

ButteryMales posted...

Seems like you don't know shit about what's happening.

Oh I will take a stab at it from my limited knowledge.

Hamas, a terrorist group that operates out of Palestine, attacked people at a music festival. They desecrated corpses and took hostages. They claim to be freedom fighters for the Palestinian people who have historically been fucked over by Isreal. The whole region has been basically been in contention for centuries. Isreal does not treat Palestine well, especially the Gaza Strip.

Isreal responded to this attack on their land by shutting down all support to the Gaza Strip and basically turning it into... not even a war zone as much as charred ash. They are bombing the hell out of the region as Hamas is largely situation in the area.

Hamas does not speak for all of Palestine but claims it does and seems like they have enough general support the true Palestinian government can't outright come out against them. Isreal is bombing any target they deem to be a Hamas target and ultimately Hamas is using human shields to try and make Isreal look bad, despite their outright murder and desecration of babies and kids.

Ultimately Hamas decided to attack a music festival (not even military targets or political targets, a musical festival with people from all over the world attending) for... some reason, and now Isreal is bombing the area into oblivion.

What Isreal is doing in response is not appropriate to innocent lives at all, but do people think they shouldn't respond at all? How many innocent lives would need to be killed before Isreal responds? 5000? 10000? Should Isreal do a total ground invasion to root out their enemies? Would that be appropriate?

It is a complex situation and basically it proves the adage that war is just horrible for the innocent population, which is most of them.

The long standing problems in the area in terms of whose land is whose has also been fought over with innocent lives suffering. It is all terrible but I don't think anyone can argue that Hamas is somehow in the right.

I mean, Canada really mistreated the Indigenous peoples, but it is still a long way to go of mistreatments before they turn into Canadian Hamas, so you can keep visiting Canadian music festivals without worries.

Jeff_AKA_Snoopy posted...

What Isreal is doing in response is not appropriate to innocent lives at all, but do people think they shouldn't respond at all?

You just said it would be silly for a government to bomb their own citizens.

There's people on Twitter who are begging for one to eradicate the other and that's terrible; that extremism is a really low bar so I don't imagine that's really what the topic's about. I think it's about people who are cautious in how they condemn Hamas because they recognize the attacks are a result of the material conditions of the area, and they don't want to be understood as dismissing the grievances of the Palestinian people, who are right to have them.

To frame the issue as "There's just these evil people on both sides who cause harm because of their badness" is reductive and ignores the material reality and history of the region. It shifts responsibility off of the faction with the backing of countries like the US and billions upon billions of dollars who nonetheless imposed their apartheid and 'settlement' policies which have continuously exacerbated the humanitarian crises and resentment. It puts the empowered and the disempowered at the same level and I don't think that's right.

You can say something that's trivially true and which nonetheless misrepresents the issue by its sheer lack of depth or granularity.

Pitbuller_26 posted...

You'd be surprised at how many people are conflating that Hamas=all Palestinians and Israel=all jews.

The thing is it's the same group who does both of these, isn't it? It's useful to Zionists to frame criticism of Israel as antisemitism to take advantage of how rightfully vitriolic that label is. It's also useful to Zionists to conflate the population of Gaza with Hamas to deflect criticisms of the worsening humanitarian crisis. Israel's president has used just that rhetoric saying there are "No innocent civilians in Gaza".

ButteryMales posted...

You just said it would be silly for a government to bomb their own citizens.

But isn't the Gaza Strip located in Palestine, not Isreal?

Jeff_AKA_Snoopy posted...

But isn't the Gaza Strip located in Palestine, not Isreal?

Yes, but Israel has a very large amount of control over the Gaza strip

Jeff_AKA_Snoopy posted...

But isn't the Gaza Strip located in Palestine, not Isreal?

It's an enclave

Jeff_AKA_Snoopy posted...

But isn't the Gaza Strip located in Palestine, not Isreal?

Most governments don't recognize Palestine as an independent nation, and consider it just a self-administrating part of Israel. Kinda similar to China/Taiwan except that with Taiwan it's kind of just "playing the game" to keep China happy, whereas many believe their own bullshit about Palestine.

Ajiri posted...

My issue is everyone condemns Hamas, not many condemn Israel's government

The first half is not an issue. Everyone should be condemning Hamas, that part is good. It's only the latter half that's actually a problem.

ForsakenHermit posted...

It's kind of sad that some people are so anti-Zionist they can't bring themselves to condemn Hamas.

I've seen exactly zero support for Hamas. Knock it off.

Alchemist_Emil posted...

It's not a both sides issue

Because there are more than two sides. Not everyone getting pulled into this mess is IDF or Hamas.

Collat posted...

I've seen exactly zero support for Hamas. Knock it off.

There's an incredibly fucked up and intentional plan by weirdos to pretend "Hamas" and "Random civilians including mostly children" are the same thing.

That way they can go "You're against bombing hosptials and churches and killing kids? That means you support Hamas!" and act like they made a point