Current Events > Hamas base confirmed under Gaza hospital.

(+) Yeah! (+)

Skankhair posted...

Killing innocent children doesnt reduce Hamas capability to carry out more attacks, it increases it.

Youre just genocidal. You dont want to actually stop Hamas, you just want kids to die.

He's not actually that specific. Any ol' Palestinian will do for him. When the death totals reach 400,000/500,000 he won't even bat an eye.

Anteaterking posted...

So it's foolhardy to even suggest that you could stop Hamas from carrying out *any* further attacks because at some level any person can elect to be part of Hamas and cause whatever small scale terror they wish.

Agreed.

Anteaterking posted...

At that point, we really need to be discussing degree. So let's do it this way. Last year according to Israel MFA, 29 Israelis were killed in terror attacks by terrorist groups from Palestine. How many Palestinian civilians is an acceptable amount of collateral damage to bring things back to let's say half that level?

I don't have an answer to that, other than "as few as possible". It would likely have to be evaluated on a target-by-target basis, on the basis of potential casualties and potential damage to Hamas as well as damage to infrastructure. The problem with setting hard and fast rules is that you're telling Hamas exactly how many human shields they need to protect a given target.

willythemailboy posted...

I've seen no evidence to support your assertion here.

The assertion that my objection isn't that I think Israel should do nothing?

I already posted a non-exhaustive list of measures that I think would reduce the capabilities of Hamas terrorists that I think Israel would be well within their right to do that also would reduce civilian casualties and prevent a full ground invasion.

Try putting on your reading glasses next time.

willythemailboy posted...

The problem with setting hard and fast rules is that you're telling Hamas exactly how many human shields they need to protect a given target.

And the problem with what you are saying is that no amount of human shields (hostages and children) is too much.

Yo_D_oY posted...

So your solution is to treat the worst terrorist attack (per capita) as essentially a spanking?

My solution is for Israel to actually provide an avenue for peace, instead of just commiting atrocities and playing victim

"We're gonna make them kill the human shields" only works as a PR tactic if you kill the human shields.

willythemailboy posted...

The user in question has posted that every action Israel does is a war crime. While he won't say it, he includes existing in that list.

Claiming to have mind-reading powers that appearantly allow you to know my thoughts better than myself is certainly a statement of all time.

IceCreamOnStero posted...

My solution is for Israel to actually provide an avenue for peace, instead of just commiting atrocities and playing victim

Israel 100% are in the right for wanting to eliminate Hamas. If Hamas are basing their people in hospitals it shows what disdain they have for their own people they claim they are fighting for. I hope Israel dont bomb hospitals but I also appreciate its an awful fucking situation that Hamas have created.

IceCreamOnStero posted...

Claiming to have mind-reading powers that appearantly allow you to know my thoughts better than myself is certainly a statement of all time.

A denial would have served you better.

punkfanalways posted...

Israel 100% are in the right for wanting to eliminate Hamas. If Hamas are basing their people in hospitals it shows what disdain they have for their own people they claim they are fighting for. I hope Israel dont bomb hospitals but I also appreciate its an awful fucking situation that Hamas have created.

Taking israels propganda at face value simply means youre good with the genocide and bombing hospitals. Just be a man and out and say it, forget the manual for a moment.

Metroid_Food posted...

Taking israels propganda at face value simply means youre good with the genocide and bombing hospitals. Just be a man and out and say it, forget the manual for a moment.

Not wanting Israel to bomb hospitals as I explicitly stated in my previous post doesnt correspond with what you are accusing me off.

punkfanalways posted...

Israel 100% are in the right for wanting to eliminate Hamas.

And yet they continue to fuel Hamas' propaganda.

willythemailboy posted...

A denial would have served you better.

I really don't care for tactical advice from someone lying about being a mind-reader.

punkfanalways posted...

Not wanting Israel to bomb hospitals as I explicitly stated in my previous post doesnt correspond with what you are accusing me off.

It absolutely does since all it takes is for a genocidal apartheid state to make a claim, then you eat it up face value.

You are with them, they are genocidal, racist, ethnofacists. Thats who youre with.

Accepting their narrative means you do want it bombed, just not man enough to say it directly.

punkfanalways posted...

Not wanting Israel to bomb hospitals as I explicitly stated in my previous post doesnt correspond with what you are accusing me off.

So you belive ppl who can't get water made a vault tech vault. Under a hospital that was already there?

cjsdowg posted...

So you belive ppl who can't get water made a vault tech vault. Under a hospital that was already there?

What?

willythemailboy posted...

A denial would have served you better.

step 1) accuse your opponent of something they did not do
step 2) demand they denounce the action you claimed they did
step 3) confirm the accusation when opponent refuses to engage with your dishonesty

Fascist playbook 101.

Shadow_Don posted...

step 1) accuse your opponent of something they did not do
step 2) demand they denounce the action you claimed they did
step 3) confirm the accusation when opponent refuses to engage with your dishonesty

Fascist playbook 101.

You're shilling awfully hard for someone who can't force themselves to say Israel has a right to exist.

And your fascist playbook would seem to apply to far more people in this topic than me.

Edit: See post #213 for example.

If anyone has ever wondered why or how genocide denial happens and how it can promulgate, this is why & how. There's no skepticism or serious criticism of an invading force and its claims are often taken at face value. Russia was not actively treated like this since it is understood as a foe in international politics, but Israel's status as an ally lends it perceived credibility it would almost certainly lack if the USA/Israel hadn't already been allied for decades.

There's just no justification of the damage being done nor the clear and obvious attempts to suppress reports of it; there's no justifying the high number of civilian deaths or international actvists; etc, etc. This is taking a crime and engaging in mass violence on an entire group of people in response, which is very characteristic of how these kinds of mass murders happen.

It's going to be obvious in 2-3 months the scale of the damage & war crimes, and the internet will see first-hand the protracted effort that will be pushed in order to deny what you will be seeing and hearing from Palestinians.

I don't think I'd feel this way if there wasn't such sharp, hostile rhetoric being used against calls for a ceasefire. There's components that are absurd in response to it from Palestine supporters but the fact is that a country backed by imperialists is probably going to kill hundreds of thousands of people, and just like when Iraq happened, the USA will be gesturing at terrorist attacks as a justification for mass murder, playing word games to explain why 100,000 deaths isn't genocide but instead something else as if the term we use to describe mass murder is the important part.

willythemailboy posted...

You're shilling awfully hard for someone who can't force themselves to say Israel has a right to exist.

I've said multiple times on this board that Israel has a complete right to exist provided they can prove that their existence isn't conditional on being a colonial apartheid state.

You were originally trying to play some dumb logic trap, now you're being willfully dishonest.

willythemailboy posted...

You're shilling awfully hard for someone who can't force themselves to say Israel has a right to exist.

Israel has a right to exist and a right to defend itself.

I already stated this in my conversation with you.

Why are you lying?

IceCreamOnStero posted...

I've said multiple times on this board that Israel has a complete right to exist provided they can prove that their existence isn't conditional on being a colonial apartheid state.

You were originally trying to play some dumb logic trap, now you're being willfully dishonest.

Which by extension means either he can't read, or more likely, he actively wants Israel to exist as such a state.

To address the video from the OP: I've been raised in the USA and grew up in a time where the defining political crisis was about how our government lied through their teeth for years to engage in a mass murdering war that has had consequences for an entire world region.

Why on earth am I going to believe what a military spokeperson from any Western ally says when that government is carpet bombing territory it cut off electricity & water too? Nobody should believe that unless evidence is presented. At least Ukraine is a defending force against its own imperialist opponent.

Zero_Destroyer posted...

I've been raised in the USA and grew up in a time where the defining political crisis was about how our government lied through their teeth for years to engage in a mass murdering war that has had consequences for an entire world region.

Beautifully said @Zero_Destroyer

I wonder if these guys are even old enough to know what the immediate aftermath of 9/11 was like to live through.

We didn't win the war on terror by killing terrorists + children. We lost that "war". All that we accomplished was killing terrorists and then replacing them with more terrorists.

Shadow_Don posted...

Beautifully said @Zero_Destroyer

I wonder if these guys are even old enough to know what the immediate aftermath of 9/11 was like to live through.

Anyone in particular you are referencing here?

I guess that excuses killing hundreds of people.

Next time a criminal is chased into an area and takes hostages just shoot up the place to get them.

Zero_Destroyer posted...

If anyone has ever wondered why or how genocide denial happens and how it can promulgate, this is why & how. There's no skepticism or serious criticism of an invading force and its claims are often taken at face value. Russia was not actively treated like this since it is understood as a foe in international politics, but Israel's status as an ally lends it perceived credibility it would almost certainly lack if the USA/Israel hadn't already been allied for decades.

There's just no justification of the damage being done nor the clear and obvious attempts to suppress reports of it; there's no justifying the high number of civilian deaths or international actvists; etc, etc. This is taking a crime and engaging in mass violence on an entire group of people in response, which is very characteristic of how these kinds of mass murders happen.

It's going to be obvious in 2-3 months the scale of the damage & war crimes, and the internet will see first-hand the protracted effort that will be pushed in order to deny what you will be seeing and hearing from Palestinians.

I don't think I'd feel this way if there wasn't such sharp, hostile rhetoric being used against calls for a ceasefire. There's components that are absurd in response to it from Palestine supporters but the fact is that a country backed by imperialists is probably going to kill hundreds of thousands of people, and just like when Iraq happened, the USA will be gesturing at terrorist attacks as a justification for mass murder, playing word games to explain why 100,000 deaths isn't genocide but instead something else as if the term we use to describe mass murder is the important part.

Well said, cuts through all the hasbara BS.

I guess that excuses killing hundreds of people.

Next time a criminal is chased into an area and takes hostages just shoot up the place to get them.

If this story is even true

supergamerbret posted...

I guess that excuses killing hundreds of people.

Next time a criminal is chased into an area and takes hostages just shoot up the place to get them.

Well israel already did this according to survivor accounts

punkfanalways posted...

Anyone in particular you are referencing here?

The guy that I was clearly arguing with the entire time.

If you agree with that bozo and are also old enough to have lived through 9/11 then my advice to you is to turn off Fox News.

Shadow_Don posted...

The guy that I was clearly arguing with the entire time.

If you agree with that bozo and are also old enough to have lived through 9/11 then my advice to you is to turn off Fox News.

What user specifically is that? Ive not been following all the topics that closely. Im from the UK and we dont get fox anyway.

IceCreamOnStero posted...

I've said multiple times on this board that Israel has a complete right to exist provided they can prove that their existence isn't conditional on being a colonial apartheid state.

For some reason I suspect there's no possible way that conditional could ever be met to your standard. Oh yeah, it's because you posted it. Still, even with an impossible proviso that must have physically pained you to write.

Shadow_Don posted...

Israel has a right to exist and a right to defend itself.

I already stated this in my conversation with you.

Why are you lying?

You're shilling awfully hard in favor of ICOS, who is someone who can't force themselves to say Israel has a right to exist.

Is that more clear?

willythemailboy posted...

You're shilling awfully hard in favor of ICOS, who is someone who can't force themselves to say Israel has a right to exist.

Is that more clear?

I have been very clear about my position on Israel's right to exist and to defend itself.

I gave you a list of measures Israel could potentially take to counter Hamas, which is an absurd request on its face given that we aren't counter-terrorism experts, but I did it anyway after you agreed that I could generalize.

I have pointed out on multiple occasions how you have explicitly lied about what I said. You refused to address this when I pointed it out.

Where are the goal posts now? Just please tell me where they are.

willythemailboy posted...

Post #103 is a good place to start. No one is dumb enough to come out and say it but the intent is obvious.

So any post that criticizes Israel for committing admitted war crimes is celebrating Hamas? That's a very offensive statement.

Forty_Niners posted...

So any post that criticizes Israel for committing admitted war crimes is celebrating Hamas? That's a very offensive statement.

Zionism is a vile ideology that singlemindedly promotes the faultlessness of Israel

Forty_Niners posted...

So any post that criticizes Israel for committing admitted war crimes is celebrating Hamas?

When the post is from a user who says everything Israel does is a war crime, yes.

Chicken posted...

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/5/9/2/AAfg3pAAE6Wo.jpg

https://www.theonion.com/what-to-know-about-what-s-happening-in-israel-and-gaza-1850923354

Q: Whats been the international response?
A: People across the world have contributed an outpouring of infographics.

willythemailboy posted...

When the post is from a user who says everything Israel does is a war crime, yes.

They admit to doing war crimes. Pay attention.

willythemailboy posted...

When the post is from a user who says everything Israel does is a war crime, yes.

Everything Israel does is a war crime: FALSE

Israel does do war crimes: TRUE

Do you disagree?

willythemailboy posted...

I don't have an answer to that, other than "as few as possible". It would likely have to be evaluated on a target-by-target basis, on the basis of potential casualties and potential damage to Hamas as well as damage to infrastructure. The problem with setting hard and fast rules is that you're telling Hamas exactly how many human shields they need to protect a given target.

You're dodging the question. I'm not asking "what should Israel publish as the amount of people they are willing to kill to save Israeli lives". It's not even a question of justifying any individual operation. Just campaign wide, if I told you "We can reduce Israeli losses from Hamas to 14 people a year, but it will require N Palestinian civilians to die" what is highest N (roughly) where you think that's acceptable?

Im out of the loop. Where should their base be instead of a hospital? If it is a public place doesn't that just make it easier to drone strike it and take out their leaders.

Trumble posted...

This is literally the logic Israel supporters run on. Except they don't count their own sides points, so that their own side is always the one allowed to do it.

how about both sides are evil as fuck? Fuck the Israel tyrannical government and fuck Hamas, killing innocents is never justified no matter what

I doubt you get an answer that is honest when in public forum or on a talk show. it is all about other people now, oh look people!, I have to (fill in blank) them.

godofwar596 posted...

how about both sides are evil as fuck? Fuck the Israel tyrannical government and fuck Hamas, killing innocents is never justified no matter what

I agree. No one seems to be disputing that Hamas are fucked up ITT though, so I had no reason to focus on that side of things here.

First a hospital and now a refugee camp.