Board 8 > Dead by Daylight Mafia Topic 5: Invasion of the Body Snatchers

(+) Yeah! (+)

EDumey posted...

Yes those topic 2 posts were the ones I was referring to. I'm assuming Corrik just said he liked Brohan then because he voted me, and Corrik tends to always have me in his PoE range. But otherwise I don't think Corrik gave a good explanation there.

But yeah, that was what I was referring to by saying he did post more than Brohan, and it looked like he was starting to read at least.

Incorrect. I liked Brohan because Brohans post at the time actually contained substance and appeared to be trying to figure out the game. Brohans usual shtick is just posting nonsense and trying to be funny and rarely active. As scum, usually giving nothing at all for the most part. I may have been hasty at that time because I assumed Brohan would continue this path, but it seemed relatively like a good read at the time. It's why I doubted it was even Brohan at first. Because it wasn't quite like him, and if it wasn't him, I was giving a town read benefit to someone who actually I would know the playstyle on.

Nothing to do with your vote, nor do I feel particularly like you are scum this game so far. You aren't virtue signaling yourself as town as far as I can see this game like you do a lot as scum.

EDumey posted...

Hello friends.

Wallz you're dumb for voting.

Yes I am.

As for actual thoughts about the end of day. I remember reading through things and being wary of FD very intentionally trying to set up a lynch between Ulti and Wallz. I can't say that his rationale of trying to bring Wallz into the mix, who wasn't one of the previous lynch leaders and so would maybe force scum to act isn't the worst. But with Ulti flipping town, a paranoid part of me can't help but wonder if FD was actually trying to force a town/town lynch there. Kind of like how last game I helped "lead" the end of day lynch because I knew it was all between town at that point. FD basically tried to ensure no special happened, and it stayed where it was.

I did ultimately not switch my vote to Ulti before I left an hour before deadline, though I can't really say that I wouldn't have given a little more time, so I'm not TOO critical of people on Ulti. The push for Ashe near the end DID actually seem like a more traditional special, and I don't see scum pushing for Ashe when they could take out Ulti early. So I feel fairly good about Lea's slot and Ben for being on Ashe at the end. (Sorry Corrik you don't get credit for that one.)

I had the same thought about FDs eod after I saw Ultis flip. Now keep in mind town FD did spend a good chunk of last game repeatedly calling for my Lynch because I had MR in my flavor without being part of the damn neighborhood, so theres a track record of having weak reasoning. But never last game did FD try to steer the lynch so blatantly. He basically wanted everyone to agree to lynching one of me and ulti. Obviously I dont expect everyone to take my word for it that Im town but I definitely think someone trying to steer us to a town/town lynch so blatantly needs to answer for it.

also keep in mind at one point the lynch leader had like 4 votes. If FD is scum it doesnt say anything definitive about anyone else but it would certainly be interesting to see when the push to narrow the lynch down to two town candidates, who else was gaining steam at that time.

I know we're waiting for everyone to check in and see if any info comes up, but gonna try and spark some conversation before I go to bed in an hour-ish.

My state of the game as of D2

Fairly Certain Town
Ben
Sultan

Good Lean Town
Lea/BCT
Red

Neutral
JC
Corrik
Wallz
SBell
IGCD

Scum Lean
Ashethan
Death
Crescent/Chang

Strongest Scum Suspects
FD
Brohan

If I'm correct about FD, I would move Wallz all the way up to Certain Town. Ashethan is only in the scum lean because I think town votes went on him at end of day, and scum probably cemented Ulti in the lead. FD, Brohan, and Crescent were three of the last votes to go on Ulti and make sure he was the lynch. I still want to think SBell and IGCD are probably town, which is why I'm excluding IGCD in that analysis, but also it would be INCREDIBLY UNLIKELY for all four scum to pile on Ulti at the end, and I would say IGCD is probably the first of those four I would move out of that list.

Fair enough Corrik. I don't think I've ever played with Brohan before, so I don't have any kind of previous player meta to go off of like that.

Also screw you FD for saying I don't read day 1 until I'm alive day 2. I skim it sometimes. Lol

Of course theres also the possibility Dumey is scum and FD is town and Dumey wants to plant the seed and see if town bites to get us both mislynched.

BlueCrystalTear posted...

(1.268)
This post makes me feel good about Ben. Ulti flipped TOWN CAT so Ben defending him early in such a way - and not voting for Ulti later - makes me lean town on him.... at least at first. His reactions thereafter, however... I dunno. The good feelings disappeared until 1.348 when he called out Sultan for changing his mind on SBell for no discernible reason. And that may be because Sultan is failing all kinds of vibe checks, at least in topic 1.

The people I like the least are Sultan, Ben, and Dumey. Again, this is just based on the first topic.

I also have no clue if this is a Mafia game or not. Too much going on and I'm just gonna ignore it all and try to find scum.

Alright, welcome to the confirmed town list, ghost Lea. You couldn't do it but your replacement did.

This is gonna be tough to describe why I like this post but.... I like the thoughts progression and the eventual conclusion to leave me on a list of people BCT likes the least. You'll notice he only gave details on two things he DID LIKE about me, had a vague "Didn't like those reactions", and concluded I was shady because of those posts "until 1.248" that he left unexplained. Your first impression might be to think that this is scum being contradictory, but no I am reading it as town who felt genuinely disturbed by things I was saying and lists me as someone he doesnt have good feelings about because he really FELT it, not because he was able to prove it in this post by pointing to what he didnt like about me.
*shrug*

Ben, ulti says you are too correct about the game and are scum. What's your rebuttal to this?

I also have stuff to say about FD. Twice during that end of day he had posts that got my attention. Time to go find them

wallmasterz posted...

Of course theres also the possibility Dumey is scum and FD is town and Dumey wants to plant the seed and see if town bites to get us both mislynched.

Just to be clear, if FD is town, I don't think that says anything about your alignment. He could have accidentally been steering toward a town/town lynch in that regard, or absolutely correctly putting you up as scum and forcing scum to act.

Not trying to set up a future lynch off of FD. This is just my analysis of end of D1.

Corrik7 posted...

Ben, ulti says you are too correct about the game and are scum. What's your rebuttal to this?

I am "mysteriously" less correct when I'm scum tbh

But yeah I've heard that from Ulti before when we were both town. I CAN and WILL go find an example

Brohan still strikes me as town later in day 1.

I could be judging Brohan too harshly. My primary argument against him was that I thought after he came back and read the game, he listed Dumey, Lea, Ulti, Sultan, and Red as the people he found suspicious. Look at my list I posted about and see where I think the alignment of all those players is.

It's possible that I'm just having the wool thrown over my eyes by Lea, Sultan, or Red, but to go 0-5 in that list, and then of course ending on the Ulti lynch toward the back half. My worries have not gone away.

It should go without saying though, that were I to able to place a vote at the moment, I would be voting FD, not Brohan.

Some FD posts in Chronological order

Forceful_Dragon posted...

Okay so it was actually just BS, got it. Then sure I'm fine to lynch Ulti OR wallz. I think I like red and ashe better than the people on ulti though so I'm gonna lean that direction. Maybe we can have a rare scum vs scum end of day.

##Vote: Wallz

I think it was this one I didnt like, just because of the last comment that pushes a belief that Ulti and Wallz are scum/scum when I didnt feel like the day was going a clear "scum is on the back foot" direction at all. And I especially didnt think Wallz did anything so clearly egregious to have someone be that certain about him. It just feels like a comment directed at manipulating town.

Forceful_Dragon posted...

I had wanted to force an either/or day between Wallz and Ulti and force people to make a decision but then all this Lea stuff kept happening. Guess wallz is safe.

##Unvote
##Vote: Ulti

He was at least consistent with really hating the Ulti/Wallz block and disappointed Wallz got out though.

Forceful_Dragon posted...

I haven't loved everything about Sultan but I'd honestly prefer to keep the list of possible options smaller to force people to decide from a short list. Ulti vs Wallz was my preference but evidently Lea would not be denied a spot in the conversation and Team Ulti is making a strong push for Ashe.

Forceful_Dragon posted...

If I'm not mistaken Ulti is actually at -1 right now

##Unvote

Forceful_Dragon posted...

Consider my vote to still be on Ulti, just want to give the final 10 minutes time to play out.

Forceful_Dragon posted...

You have nothing to rub in.

Either you are scum or you are in a noose of your own design. YOU were in charge of your own posts today and they were objectively bad.

Forceful_Dragon posted...

60 seconds.

##Vote: Ulti

for better of for worse this is happening.

FD, did you have a little doubt at the end there? Why the for better or for worse "its out of my control" comment?

FD, in addition to the above, I'd just like to ask a pointed question: Why Wallz?

Gotta be kidding me like 3 topics for the last 16 hours of day 1?

EDumey posted...

I could be judging Brohan too harshly. My primary argument against him was that I thought after he came back and read the game, he listed Dumey, Lea, Ulti, Sultan, and Red as the people he found suspicious. Look at my list I posted about and see where I think the alignment of all those players is.

It's possible that I'm just having the wool thrown over my eyes by Lea, Sultan, or Red, but to go 0-5 in that list, and then of course ending on the Ulti lynch toward the back half. My worries have not gone away.

Wouldn't town be likelier to go 0-5 than town? Scum would purposely put a scum in there, right? That said, not so sure he is 0-5 either.

Btw, Lea being a dayscanner ironically could be true. The box thing kinda points to day abilities existing. Just a showerthought.

Corrik7 posted...

Wouldn't town be likelier to go 0-5 than town?

which one did you mean was scum here?

Town likelier than scum.

And the box persists to end of night 2 not end of day 2. So the day ability stuff isn't as likely as I said prior.

BCT, you should claim.

PunishedBen posted...

But yeah I've heard that from Ulti before when we were both town. I CAN and WILL go find an example

Okay wait i take that back. I'm way too lazy to sift for something like that and it probably never even happened

My new rebuttal is that throughout the day there were many points that I read Ulti town and I voiced a lot of them, so if you find you agree with them then you'll understand exactly why I thought Ulti was town

Corrik7 posted...

BCT, you should claim.

why?

BlueCrystalTear posted...

why?

Because I nicely asked and Lea didn't leave you in a good spot alignment-wise.

Corrik7 posted...

BCT, you should claim.

Just your day 1 role, BCT

Crescents argument on Lea is relatively weak, especially if Ulti is scum with her. It's far likelier Lea is scum and Ulti is town than them both scum.

Lea however doesn't look very town so far though in my reading.

Corrik7 posted...

Wouldn't town be likelier to go 0-5 than town? Scum would purposely put a scum in there, right? That said, not so sure he is 0-5 either.

There's no rule that scum HAS to rule of three. I think it's somewhat reasonable to expect that a less experienced/rusty player would come into the game as scum and start bussing teammates. It's possible that he's just wrong town, or scum and one of those suspects is scum as well with him. I'm just tellin' it how I see it.

Town:
JC
Brohan
IGCD
Ben
Sultan
Sbell

More likely town than not
Edumey
Chang

POE
Wallz
Death
Red
FD
Ash
BCT

Okay so definitely did not have the same feline grace day 1 as Ulti did so cudos to isquen for Trait trapping.
As for the game man alot happened

I dont want to be to distracted by the box but

##Digahole

PunishedBen posted...

Just your day 1 role, BCT

Day 1 role was basically Vanilla Ninja. For whatever reason I had no actions, but I wouldn't be seen at night if for some reason I moved (don't think we'd have a pineapple vendor?). Also my character is like James Bond and looks good doing everything he does. But those are my only two traits.

BlueCrystalTear posted...

Day 1 role was basically Vanilla Ninja. For whatever reason I had no actions, but I wouldn't be seen at night if for some reason I moved (don't think we'd have a pineapple vendor?). Also my character is like James Bond and looks good doing everything he does. But those are my only two traits.

This does add up to leas claim not that that means anything

Well, interesting. FF14 mafia had a TOWN Ninja, which did nothing on its own. But mafia had a role that could steal the power of a dead townie each night, and that was its function to give mafia a potential ninja ability.

Could also be a sort of Miller trait in this game if there's a rolecop

BCT prob town, doubt he open wolfs like that

role prob interacts with itself with the even day power

First, something happened to me last night. I mean in addition to switching from one solo queue role to another, that happened as well.

I received a message telling me... something. There's a couple different ways to interpret it. It's possible its erroneous flavor related to my second solo queue persona, or it's possible its an indication that I'm loving on borrowed time.

Anyways,

PunishedBen posted...

FD, did you have a little doubt at the end there? Why the for better or for worse "its out of my control" comment?

Of course I had doubt. I'm town and don't know how someone is going to flip before they flip. I was frustrated with the way things played out, but in light of the inconsistencies and frankly lies that were coming from ulti and Lea i didn't think there was a better play to make.

It's the same way I felt about Sultan last game after his lie about being unable to talk for 24 hours. If an illogical lie is being told I'm going to grab that thread and pull and all I can say is that if someone is town they should think twice about that kind of bs.

EDumey posted...

FD, in addition to the above, I'd just like to ask a pointed question: Why Wallz?

I mean, I said as much multiple times. He was on my short list of people I was willing to vote after my initial catching up post and it was largely because it felt like he was trying to not be noticed.

And no I had no way to guarantee that one or both of wallz and ulti would be scum, but being assertive seemed like my best option to make others commit to something so they wouldn't just skate by without taking a stance on something.

Hell I'm more inclined to be suspicious of those who were reluctant to vote ulti in that spot because it's only the scum team that knew beyond a doubt he was town.

Something bothers me about Dumey. And maybe someone can help me.

Yesterday toward end of day before he had to go, he said:

EDumey posted...

I should just let FD handle this, but I have to leave in 5 minutes and am trying to figure out if I want to move my vote before I go.

Today he said:

EDumey posted...

A lot of the ending confusion that I think actually damned Ulti was an interaction where Ulti, who did not have Vanilla anywhere in his role PM, genuinely thought Lea day scanned him as Vanilla, and just did some mental gymnastics that Lea was smart enough to realize that he was essentially a vanilla and just cut the bullshit when saying it in topic.

This inconsistency in the claim was heavily pushed by FD (though I will fully admit to being present and also expressing confusion at Ulti's thought process here).

But my conclusion here is that FD was a large part of pushing Ulti because of Ulti's incomprehensible actions around understanding his own role, and not actually for being scummy. Coupled with FD making a strong case for trying to isolate the lynch to Ulti and Wallz, makes me suspicious of his motivations at end of day.

So at what point did he go from "Let's leave this to FD" to "FD wasn't pushing Ulti for being scummy, just for his incomprehensible actions" We do have information about Ulti's alignment now, but that doesn't change FD's reasoning yesterday. He admitted that he found Ulti's thought process was confusing, and maybe that's it, and that's why he didn't join the Ulti lynch. But then, why did he just say 'leave it to FD' at that time?

Okay, I went back and looked. It was before he voted for Ulti. So that makes a bit more sense. FD was on Lea at the time.

Because we were both saying the same things at the same time and now he's trying to distance himself from saying things that led to the death of a town.

:thinking:

Meanwhile I'll wear ulti's lynch like a badge of honor. It may have turned out to be wrong, but he behaved in a way that deserved to be lynched, certainly more so than anyone else at that point. He can complain about "this is why I'll just be idle" all he wants. It wasn't his activity that got him killed, it was the insane things he was representing with his activity. I didn't pressure a town lynch because I knew it was a town lynch, but because I had been given ample reason to believe it wasn't.

And you're welcome to believe what you want, but I don't believe I would behave so forwardly as scum. Certainly not to bury that guy who didn't understand his role PM and eventually settled on vanilla.

Ashethan posted...

FD was on Lea at the time.

Like hell I was.

I never voted for Lea

Forceful_Dragon posted...

I never voted for Lea

Oh right, you were on Wall. It was Crescent that voted Lea. My bad. I just went back to check and see when you voted Ulti.

Corrik7 posted...

Didn't read the end of day 1 yet cuz I assumed i would die last nigh5. Lol. Oops.

I thought you would as well, that's a shame ;)

Might as well make the best of it and lean on some of that legendary corrik day 2 insight.

changmas posted...

Like Dead By Daylight's Pig Killer, Hellraiser's Pinhead has an additional object that will spawn on the map at the beginning of the match. The Lament Configuration puzzle box will activate a Chain Hunt, which summons interdimensional chains to hunt Survivors. Players must pick the box up and solve the puzzle to deactivate Chain Hunt completely. Unfortunately, players carrying the Lament Configuration puzzle box will suffer from the Oblivious status effect. Unlike solving the Pig's mask, the Lament Configuration needs two Survivors to safely complete. The vulnerable state of the puzzle box carrier ensures another Survivor must accompany them to act as a lookout or take hits from Pinhead.

To clarify what I mentioned earlier, I do not believe the message I received indicates that I am in possession of the box. It mentions an oblivious status so maybe whoever has the box simply doesn't know? But within the context of DbD "oblivious" apparently means "Survivors who are Oblivious will be unable to hear the Killer's Terror Radius, making them vulnerable to sneaky attacks.". I guess just to be safe

##CheckSelfForBox

?

EDumey posted...

But my conclusion here is that FD was a large part of pushing Ulti because of Ulti's incomprehensible actions around understanding his own role, and not actually for being scummy. Coupled with FD making a strong case for trying to isolate the lynch to Ulti and Wallz, makes me suspicious of his motivations at end of day.

It's because Ulti and Lea were both participating in what amounted to lies, and lies that didn't have a logical purpose at that. Those things MADE ulti scummy to me so it was never from a place of "well I think Ulti seems town but now we HAVE to kill him because he's acting insane". I never had a strong feeling ulti was town, and everything else about the fake scan and stuff about now even knowing his own traits just added to that.

Also, for the record, that PM did not seem to crazy to be parsed. Hell "you can't do much, though the Entity has at least given you a fair shot at remaining the center of the universe by giving you a voice in elimination proceedings." is about as vanilla as it gets.

EDumey posted...

That entire argument relied on my understanding of the Opening Post and my own role trait that Flavor traits and Passive traits might not be exclusively spelled out, and that Red may have claimed a Passive trait confidently at start of day, not realizing that an actual Town Miller may not have had a clearly spelled out "Miller" trait.

I never once thought red was claiming to have a trait that was literally titled miller. I assumed it would be something like 'untrustworthy' or 'suspicious past' or something like that which would give him the same effect.

But now I would like to hear from red about whether or not he is STILL functionally a miller in his second form. I'd wager not since there seem to be pretty substantial difference between one solo queue form and the next.

PunishedBen posted...

I thought Ulti was super giga town the whole last 16 hours and tried to convince as many people as i could

This only makes me suspicious of you.

wallmasterz posted...

Now keep in mind town FD did spend a good chunk of last game repeatedly calling for my Lynch because I had MR in my flavor without being part of the damn neighborhood,

I don't know that I would say repeatedly.

I brought it up and I cast a vote, but bear in mind that my ass was getting lynched that day no matter how hard I tried and it was happening because my life was saved by the JK. So in that position of knowing nothing and trying to be as active as possible to both (A) solve and (B) save my own ass those are the kind of arguments I was left with. It was AFTER I died that other people brought it up repeatedly.

wallmasterz posted...

but it would certainly be interesting to see when the push to narrow the lynch down to two town candidates, who else was gaining steam at that time.

Nobody? At that point it seemed like it WAS going to be between Ulti and yourself (wallz), the two vote leaders around that point. Since I was fine with either lynch I put my vote on the person who had less votes (you) to try and crystallize the end of day into one versus the other for the purpose of making people make a choice between the two of you.

It was only AFTER I voted you that several votes materialized onto Ashe in rapid succession. That concentrated barrage of votes only served to convince me that I was on the right track and Ashe was a distraction. Lea, IGCD and Ben all voted ashe within minutes of each other. At 5:07, 5:11 and 5:13 PM PST which thrust the vote into a 4/4 tie between Ashe and Ulti. They were also all cast without comment.nobody was talking about Ashe or saying "I'm not sure about this ulti or wallz lynch, let's go back to ashe" It just sort of happened.

Corrik7 posted...

Also screw you FD for saying I don't read day 1 until I'm alive day 2. I skim it sometimes. Lol

I'll believe it when I see it, neighbor ;)

.

Anyways It's pretty hilarious that after I showed up day 1 and put in all the effort I was on everyone town list, and now I'm on everyone's scum list seemingly because I got a lynch wrong and very publicly at that. I must have missed the memo that said impeccable psychic powers were required if you want to be acknowledged as town.

Anyways, that's all the effort I have the time for tonight, I should be around during my work shift tomorrow.

I am back far too late to offer opinions for tonight but will offer some tomorrow.

A swing and a miss on Ulti though, sorry team.

Im having deja vu while writing this. Weird.

The switching of the roles I am okay with.
Like others have said thats happened before.
But this boxhunt is less cute and more a pain.

Anyway as for the end of day1.
I would not have liked the Ashe or Wallz lynch myself and would probably would have kept my vote on Ulti regardless. Most of the people who voted Ulti I have no visible problem with or with their reasons.
...Outside of Brohan, who was just on the sidelines talking as if he did not care who died.
Also not sure what to make of IGCD switching from Ashe to Ulti. Figuring that out involves a lot of ifs which are undefined right now.

Something I can define is my concern about Ben saying he wanted to save Ulti day1, but he did not seem to serious to me. Near deadline Ben was more jokey than anything (I also dont know what that prison joke was all about either?)

Sbell meanwhile just tried to get a Sultan special. I dont think he called Ulti town, but he still wasted what time he had.

There were a lot of people just not there either, but I believe that was Halloweens fault.

##vote: Ashe

my vote is possibly locked but this dude hasn't really done anything of note. A few posts here and there that don't seem to add up to much. Honestly, this should have been our lynch day 1.

Claim or die.

htaeD posted...

But this boxhunt is less cute and more a pain.

Glad this was the last post when I got in here because I definitely skimmed over the second host post.

Honestly, the game got a lot more complicated and the extra 24 hours in particularly was particularly deflating.

I didn't expect to see people turning on FD and at a glance I don't think I feel the Ashe votes much either. It didn't really feel like much of a contested lynch.

Oh and the boxhunt sucks cause we feel stalled til we figure it out and no one has said anything that seems important at all on it unless I'm missing something.

It feels like a big distraction at the moment yeah because I dont know if it is even feasible to solve it and it punishes our day powers at the same time.