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Current Events > Is the problem religion itself, or humankind's interpretation of religion?

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falayyou01
11/04/23 9:46:17 AM
#1:


Religious fundamentalism isnt new. Terrorists exist on both sides of the religious divide i.e., Hamas, Likud and any other fanatical extremist faction under the banner of Islam, Judaism or other religion. Are the religions themselves to blame or is it weak willed humans erroneous interpretations of these texts thats to blame?

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CountCorvinus
11/04/23 9:47:55 AM
#2:


Humans invented religion.

Humans are the problem.


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falayyou01
11/04/23 9:48:30 AM
#3:


Interesting, thanks for your take.

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CountCorvinus
11/04/23 9:49:12 AM
#4:


You're very welcome.

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El_Marsh
11/04/23 9:53:29 AM
#6:


CountCorvinus posted...
Humans invented religion.

Humans are the problem.


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IceCreamOnStero
11/04/23 9:54:57 AM
#7:


Humans made up religions in the first place, these are the same thing.

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AnsestralRecall
11/04/23 9:54:59 AM
#8:


Neither. It's the political institutions with a religious veneer.
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ai123
11/04/23 9:56:20 AM
#9:


It's the usage of religion that is the problem.

If it were just a question of private belief and social gatherings, it would be fine. When it intrudes into politics, when it becomes imposed upon others, that's where the trouble starts.

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DementedDurian
11/04/23 9:56:25 AM
#10:


Something happened many years ago that led virtually all civilizations to have deities of some kind.

There are several theories as to why - ancient astronaut, Babelism or even just the human mindset.

It should make various religions somewhat relatable...if religious idiots weren't all grandstanding their beliefs and saying "Our religion is true and yours is not."

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Gremlynn
11/04/23 9:56:29 AM
#11:


[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


Christianity alone has some what... 6,000 denominations based on how someone or another interpreted a passage here or there differently?

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Flambian
11/04/23 9:57:00 AM
#12:


Religious cults and extremism follow the same moral logic as regular religions. They just don't submit to whatever worldly power that currently has the monopoly on violence, unless they are that worldly power (Taliban.) There is nothing particularly theologically special about religious extremism.

Jehovah's witnesses are probably the oldest continuous cult around today in the sense they've never fully submitted to state power, they just recently caused a fuss in Russia when they refused to serve in the Ukraine war.

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#13
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falayyou01
11/04/23 9:58:29 AM
#14:


Well, as far as I know there are sections of both religious texts that do with besieging your enemy, but as far as Quran and Old Testament are concerned, you're only allowed to do so if you're attacked / oppressed; that's the widespread view in Islam and Judaism. An eye for an eye.

In Judaism, in Deuteronomy, the Israelites were commanded by God to retaliate against the Amalekites when they left Egypt; the form of retaliation was quite graphic descriptive, but clear, including a command by God to completely crush the enemy to the last man, lest they pose a threat later on. This is what Israel uses to justify its killing of children and some fanatical rabbis will quote Deuteronomy.

Islam has similar passages in the Quran to do with besieging the enemy and "Jihad" (which means strife). Fanatics use these passages to fuel terrorist attacks, when most mainstream scholars would argue they're supposed to be used in defensive war postures only.

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IceCreamOnStero
11/04/23 9:58:39 AM
#15:


Gremlynn posted...
Christianity alone has some what... 6,000 denominations based on how someone or another interpreted a passage here or there differently?
All of these are human interpretations of Christianity, something humanity made up.

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CountCorvinus
11/04/23 10:02:54 AM
#16:


Gremlynn posted...
Christianity alone has some what... 6,000 denominations based on how someone or another interpreted a passage here or there differently?

Nearly 45,000 according to Gordon-Conwell

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Irony
11/04/23 10:03:54 AM
#17:


CountCorvinus posted...
Humans invented religion.

Humans are the problem.


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TetsuoS2
11/04/23 10:04:05 AM
#18:


humans can justify a way to kill thousands of people cuz of shiny rocks, religion is a symptom, not a cause.

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DuuuDe14
11/04/23 10:04:43 AM
#19:


Always humans. In every facet of existence. Humans are an immature species.

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Irony
11/04/23 10:04:54 AM
#20:


Greed is a religion

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Jagr_68
11/04/23 10:05:14 AM
#21:


Religion and lo fucking l at the poll results

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AloneIBreak
11/04/23 10:05:57 AM
#22:


Both.

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SpiritSephiroth
11/04/23 10:09:29 AM
#23:


People who say "hurr durr religion is the cause of war" are either disingenuous or close minded. Wars have been waged solely for political reasons and pure human greed for ages. Religion is just another excuse.

By removing it you'd think humans won't find another way to fuck with each other?

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Smackems
11/04/23 10:10:41 AM
#24:


Are humans the problem or are people?

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falayyou01
11/04/23 10:11:10 AM
#25:


Interesting point. So would the world be better or worse off with religion? Or would it just make no difference because we'd fuck each other up regardless of whether religion existed or not?

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IceCreamOnStero
11/04/23 10:11:51 AM
#26:


falayyou01 posted...
Interesting point. So would the world be better or worse off with religion? Or would it just make no difference because we'd fuck each other up regardless of whether religion existed or not?
Better.

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Flambian
11/04/23 10:12:46 AM
#27:


DuuuDe14 posted...
Always humans. In every facet of existence. Humans are an immature species.
Speak for yourself.

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falayyou01
11/04/23 10:13:31 AM
#28:


Interesting. I wonder what the world would've been like had the ten commandments not come down.

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Shishiwakamaru
11/04/23 10:17:28 AM
#29:


Im not sure why religion and philosophy are separated so much.

Would the world be better without philosophy? No one is going to answer yes to that. But we know there are bad philosophies of all kinds out there. Ignorant, selfish, harmful to other people, etc.

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SpiritSephiroth
11/04/23 10:17:59 AM
#30:


falayyou01 posted...
Interesting point. So would the world be better or worse off with religion? Or would it just make no difference because we'd fuck each other up regardless of whether religion existed or not?

Depends. There are so many people who "find" religion for a purpose. Reformed criminals, people who have no aim in life ect.

It really does help a person when they're at their lowest, with no one around. It has a community of people for individuals with no families. It also takes part in charities, events, courses for people who want to get on their feet.

Then theres obviously the downsides. But people tend to just think black and white on this issue. The anti-religious folk would like nothing more than to eliminate it all. Then you have the ultra-religious side who think everyone should adhere to their book.

I like to think a good balance between the two is healthiest.

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falayyou01
11/04/23 10:20:02 AM
#31:


SpiritSephiroth posted...
Depends. There are so many people who "find" religion for a purpose. Reformed criminals, people who have no aim in life ect.

It really does help a person when they're at their lowest, with no one around. It has a community of people for individuals with no families. It also takes part in charities, events, courses for people who want to get on their feet.

Then theres obviously the downsides. But people tend to just think black and white on this issue. The anti-religious folk would like nothing more than to eliminate it all. Then you have the ultra-religious side who think everyone should adhere to their book.

I like to think a good balance between the two is healthiest.

Interesting perspective. It'd be interesting to do a study on the amount of people religion has helped, plotted against those it's corrupted. I'd be interested in seeing how they stack up, numbers wise.

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Sansoldier
11/04/23 10:22:57 AM
#32:


Hmm, I think it's the religion itself.

The only religion that can survive for thousands of years and spread is one that focuses on proselytizing others and using peer pressure / fear to maintain relevancy. While it's possible for beneficial religions to exist, to me, it was inevitable that the one to dominate wouldn't be considered a very great one.

Nowadays, it just gets in the way of proper moral teachings. Many people believe that being religious is an adequate proxy for being a good person, which is incredibly far from the truth.

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Nemu
11/04/23 10:23:26 AM
#33:


I'd say religion itself. We'd always find ways to fight and hurt each other, but the feedback loop from religious texts and gatherings can make that much worse.
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falayyou01
11/04/23 10:24:17 AM
#34:


Sansoldier posted...
Hmm, I think it's the religion itself.

The only religion that can survive for thousands of years and spread is one that focuses on proselytizing others and using peer pressure / fear to maintain relevancy. While it's possible for beneficial religions to exist, to me, it was inevitable that the one to dominate wouldn't be considered a very great one.

Nowadays, it just gets in the way of proper moral teachings. Many people believe that being religious is an adequate proxy for being a good person, which is incredibly far from the truth.

If God exists then theoretically he'd be powerful enough to see through those peoples' hypocrisy.

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#35
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EbonTitanium
11/04/23 10:28:33 AM
#36:


Most wars have been fought over greed, the lust of power, and fear of the other.

Religion isnt a weapon, but humans can make just about anything a weapon.

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Lil_Bit83
11/04/23 10:33:24 AM
#37:


People fuck up everything they touch.

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falayyou01
11/04/23 10:44:35 AM
#38:


[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

I see your point but theoretically its still possible for there to be a correct religion. And maybe if you pick the wrong one by accident but are morally a good person youre probably good.

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Shishiwakamaru
11/04/23 10:54:45 AM
#39:


falayyou01 posted...
I see your point but theoretically its still possible for there to be a correct religion. And maybe if you pick the wrong one by accident but are morally a good person youre probably good.

I believe this, because otherwise almost all of humanity is screwed. If there is a correct religion, no one may have ever followed it or ever will just based on probability. But some people may have come close. And given the imperfectness of the human mind I dont see how its fair to punish people for making an honest choice but being wrong. Especially if you are a good person otherwise.

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Ruvan22
11/05/23 10:42:04 AM
#40:


falayyou01 posted...
Interesting perspective. It'd be interesting to do a study on the amount of people religion has helped, plotted against those it's corrupted. I'd be interested in seeing how they stack up, numbers wise.

Specifically defining the words "helped" and "corrupted" in this context seems almost impossible
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Heartomaton
11/05/23 10:44:01 AM
#41:


Both.

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falayyou01
11/05/23 10:44:07 AM
#42:


Ruvan22 posted...
Specifically defining the words "helped" and "corrupted" in this context seems almost impossible
Only God knows!

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