Current Events > I'm not even sure why Thor can lift his own hammer

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I get that his struggle with worthiness this was the entire plot of the first movie, but even after that

He's arrogant, petty, quick to anger, beats down on people before he even knows who they are, shows a lot of bad judgment, was the guy who gave up the hardest after being defeated by Thanos...

I mean almost all of the avengers are more worthy by general definition. What does worthy mean?

I could probs lift the hammer

pinky0926 posted...

What does worthy mean?

Million dollar question. It was never properly addressed and the fact Captain America can only deepens the mystery.

It seems like the hammer was just a tool until Odin placed the enchantment on it to ensure whoever wields it has earned its power but even then it doesn't explain what virtues were a part of that.

I just figured "worthy" was an arbitrary parameter that had nothing to do with how noble or honorable or righteous you were.

His sister was able to use the Hammer too, and she wasn't exactly a good person.

I think there was a comic or something that said Spider-Man would be able to lift the hammer if not for his "no kill" rule. So like the previous poster said, I don't think it's about being noble or righteous.

Because despite those qualities, he always acts in the best interest of others, even if his personality can get in the way of it. He may be a himbo but he's a himbo with his heart in the right place.

It's also worth noting that Mjolnir is demonstrated to be a conscious entity of its own, not just a magic hammer, so it could be judging Thor on qualities that we don't see or understand as the viewer.

As for giving up after Thanos' beatdown, we'll never know if he was considered unworthy during those five years or not, because Mjolnir had been destroyed. It wasn't until after he got Rocket's pep talk during the Time Heist that he was able to get a new/old Mjolnir that considered him worthy.

pinky0926 posted...

What does worthy mean?

It's always been somewhat vague and undefined but it's worthiness from a warrior culture perspective. Willingness to meet your opponents in battle and kill them if necessary is implied to be part of it, which is why Superman couldn't lift it in the crossover in the 90s until Odin lifted the enchantment as a one time thing.

It's also been implied that Mjolnir is sentient to a degree and determines worthiness on its own terms.

Jupiter posted...

I think there was a comic or something that said Spider-Man would be able to lift the hammer if not for his "no kill" rule. So like the previous poster said, I don't think it's about being noble or righteous.

Superhero no kill rules are stupid so maybe its about intelligence... or common sense

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xVuawqOZCUU

Hela could lift the hammer probably because she could attack the enchantment itself + Odin was weak

Thor can lift the hammer because he is ready to sacrifice himself for others without hestitation. Same with Captain America jumping on the grenade by instinct.

Someone like Tony Stark probably cannot lift the hammer because he has too much ego. He can make the choice to sacrifice himself for others but he has to consciously put himself aside first. Vision could lift the hammer in AoU because he was freshly created holding the one goal to go save other people.

For the people saying its Viking rules, I dont think that checks out in the MCU based on Thor 1.

You have to think of worthy from the perspective of something like a viking earning his way into valhalla. It's one of the reasons why heroes who refuse to kill have never been shown to be worthy. It's not about being a nice person, it's about being a competent and capable warrior who can lead his people to victory in battle, killing if necessary, in order to protect those around him.

Now that I think about it I'm kind of struggling to think of any MCU heroes who haven't outright killed somebody in their movies or show.

I guess Kamala definitely hasn't, but even Peter activated Instant-Kill Mode on his suit during the Battle for Earth.

I think it works under Red Dwarf's Inquistor logic

Where it's more about how you judge yourself. If you objectively had to justify your worthiness.

Spoilers:

In the show 4 characters are judged by themselves on their worthiness to justify their existence. 1 Cowardly Asshole and 1 Vain Asshole survive because the former legit blames everyone else for his failures and the latter legit thinks he is the greatest thing walking the Earth

The two nicer characters are doomed to be erased because 1 refuses outright to justify his life and the other because they're a robot who is defying their programing to become more free and in doing so is going against their "worth"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ZDy9p-C-1s

Odin obviously thinks he's the greatest. So does Captain.

In Thor 1, deep down Thor knew he was an idiot. After Thor 1 deep down believes he is worthy even when he fails.

Worthiness is completely arbitrary. It's like having hitchhiker's thumb or something else completely unrelated to your moral worth as a person.

In the DC crossover. Wonder Woman can lift it but Superman can't. So yeah its what Odin thinks is worthy.

It should be noted that in the original Norse mythology, there is no enchantment. It's just really heavy, so mortals can't pick it up. Thor has a special belt and gloves that help him withstand it.

Marvel just had too many overly strong characters that logically would be able to pick it up, so they has to add something.

Doe posted...

Hela could lift the hammer probably because she could attack the enchantment itself + Odin was weak

Thor can lift the hammer because he is ready to sacrifice himself for others without hestitation. Same with Captain America jumping on the grenade by instinct.

Someone like Tony Stark probably cannot lift the hammer because he has too much ego. He can make the choice to sacrifice himself for others but he has to consciously put himself aside first. Vision could lift the hammer in AoU because he was freshly created holding the one goal to go save other people.

For the people saying its Viking rules, I dont think that checks out in the MCU based on Thor 1.

Why was Rhodey unworthy? He's career military, seems at least as willing to sacrifice as Thor. Is it that he's too willing to follow orders even if they're unethical?

UnsteadyOwl posted...

Why was Rhodey unworthy? He's career military, seems at least as willing to sacrifice as Thor. Is it that he's too willing to follow orders even if they're unethical?

Arbitrary rules of worthiness that is very likely based on Odins definition of worthy as a warrior or Norse mythology.

The people that have all picked it up were not all righteous ethical people. Hela is the easiest low hanging fruit that contradicts its about being a good person. She was an awful person morally, that wanted to conquer and rule the other realms, and kill anyone who stood against her rule.

The most logical theory I've seen in this thread is "worthiness" is either based off Odins opinion, or Norse mythology of a warrior, or both. Which tbh sounds the most logical theory, which has nothing to do with being righteous and good morals.

With Odins opinion being in the mix or even Mjolnir having thoughts of its own of a "true warrior", it can be as arbitrary as the author wants.