Board 8 > Valentine's Day Mafia Topic 8: You Give Love a Bad Name

(+) Yeah! (+)

But you know what

I'm fine with compromising on letting JC die. Only thing making me lean town on him was his willingness to go with Lea's shenanigans on D1, but otherwise, I've had a very difficult time trying to get some grasp on his alignment.

Kirby321 posted...

EXCUSE ME?!

My guy seriously didn't see me arguing with Lopen all day D2 to the point of frustration just to say I was parroting him holy shit

Let me remind you, Lopen flowcharted that I, Kirby321, the one who supposedly is parroting Lopen and has zero original thought, should be killed.

And who
I daresay
were the immediate supporters of Lopen's flowchart? You know the people who I said were trying to get free passes?

Chris and Sultan.

TheSultanOfSlam, if you will.

The very person saying I'm parroting Lopen when he is hella more guilty of doing that than I ever was.

Bro literally all day today you have done nothing but Copy them two!

Today is day 3 not fucking day 2!

1. I don't see why Godfather Prostitute is ridiculous anyway. I've seen more absurd roles here.
2. He doesn't have to be Prostitute at all if Sultan is scum.
3. What if there is a scum Prosty that sleeps with everyone in the room and sees if they got up as sort of a second vanilla detector and Scum is all info roles.

I've always thought scum jack with "one night godfather" as one of the abilities was an interesting idea to try could be that.

I think Chris x Sultan x me provides the most solving material but getting Chris off the board is paramount if Ulti is going to be a butt about it.

But fine I'll go reread day 2. Nit that it's really relevant to today!!

Kirby321 posted...

But you know what

I'm fine with compromising on letting JC die. Only thing making me lean town on him was his willingness to go with Lea's shenanigans on D1, but otherwise, I've had a very difficult time trying to get some grasp on his alignment.

I don't think JC plays as he has as scum

Sultan if you're town

When did you get the slept with message btw

I mean we want to kill Chris out of Godfather prosty fear after We already had a vanilla cop flip fine let's go with it maybe some of you will finally belive me when he flips prostitute anyways.

Lopen posted...

Sultan if you're town

When did you get the slept with message btw

Right before day started. Like 6:58 or so.

Kirby321 posted...

I'm tempted to let one of JC or Dumey die just to see if it was probable that EoD D1 somehow ended up being all three scum, and that's why Peaf died.

This broken logic because JC just dates Peaf at end day 1 if they're both scum

LOT more hoops to jump through to get JC x Peaf. Dumey x Peaf (or Dumey x you but obviously you cant go that way) is a much more straight line

Lopen posted...

2. He doesn't have to be Prostitute at all if Sultan is scum.

it would be suicidal to claim it if he's not because he'll be found out tomorrow

and in this case Sultan is scum so had no reason to confirm that he got the slept with message, since I think some hosts don't do that?

either way doesn't really make sense unless they were literally shook so bad they threw up a Hail Mary which I find unlikely. Either way we can leave Chris alive today and if his partner says they weren't slept with, checkmate

Hmm
You might be making me go crazy but what if Chris is just scum like super powered role and the 3rd is like nilla or something super weak or another back up( yes this looks bad for me in the argument shhhhh)

And is like Godfather Jack.

He killed his room mate night 1
Prostitute his roommate night 2

This is a weird theory but it's just as weird as Prostitute Godfather anyways

MZero posted...

Either way we can leave Chris alive today and if his partner says they weren't slept with, checkmate

Unless

1. Chris is scum Godfather Prosty
2. There exists scum Prosty who can sleep with everyone in a room that isn't Chris then they can keep targeting Chris's room with impunity and his claim is "confirmed"

TheSultanOfSlam posted...

Bro literally all day today you have done nothing but Copy them two!

Today is day 3 not fucking day 2!

1) The day just started
2) I've been staunchly opposed to Lopen and Dumey's proposition triple kill tactic
3) Doesn't explain why you're being hypocritical and accusing others of sheeping Lopen when you've been guilty of that as well, as MZero has pointed out many, many times

Ulti, can you please just let Sultan die? Mans isn't even reading the game and is throwing baseless shade as a defense lol

Kirby321 posted...

1) The day just started
2) I've been staunchly opposed to Lopen and Dumey's proposition triple kill tactic
3) Doesn't explain why you're being hypocritical and accusing others of sheeping Lopen when you've been guilty of that as well, as MZero has pointed out many, many times

Ulti, can you please just let Sultan die? Mans isn't even reading the game and is throwing baseless shade as a defense lol

Kirby get your head out of your ass please to fucking God get your head out of your ass. Unless your scum and doing a great job holy ducks

My message was your roommate (paraphrasing) slept with you

Kirby okay I'm being stubborn but your rewad on me today has been Dumey light maybe om just annoied as hell to being an option today today for stupid reason.

Let me reread I'm just ficking pisss3d off okay!

Ugh

I knew I said I'd honor Lea

But Chris x Kirby makes the most sense to me seeing how this game is going with Chris having ensorceled Sultan to play bad.

Kirby's proposed lynch pathing is nonsense even with theories that I support. Why on earth do you ever kill JC before Dumey unless JC seems lower hanging fruit. There's also no reason to be violently opposed to triple kill if there are good suspects in it

I also still don't know why he got so upset at Chris. Is "it's theatre" just the right answer?

TheSultanOfSlam posted...

JC I was back and forth with POE and Scum even from our chat if you remember. Look at My read list in their I had him as scum lean

Sure I member. I even asked you about it, to which you said

TheSultanOfSlam posted...

My mind didn't really change as much as o think my scum lean was more POE than it was an actual scum read.

So yeah, you even admitted that PoE isn't really a scum read

Lopen posted...

This broken logic because JC just dates Peaf at end day 1 if they're both scum

LOT more hoops to jump through to get JC x Peaf. Dumey x Peaf (or Dumey x you but obviously you cant go that way) is a much more straight line

Unless Dumey was also scum alongside JC and Peaf.

But honestly, I don't think that's likely. Ulti is denying me the lynch I want the most, so now I'm just deep diving into the rabbit hole.

Admittedly, I haven't considered much of FD. After N1, I just thought he was town and didn't think twice about it. But I asked Red what he thought of FD, and this is what went down:

Kirby: "Any thoughts on FD? I have him as highly likely to be town in my books, but I don't think my opinion is very popular."
Red: "hes lining up with his recent town frustrations"
Red: "he hasnt really drawn scum so i dont know if he'd differ but he doesnt ping different atm"

So I'm not sure if my town read on FD is blindly unfounded.

Lopen posted...

Unless

1. Chris is scum Godfather Prosty
2. There exists scum Prosty who can sleep with everyone in a room that isn't Chris then they can keep targeting Chris's room with impunity and his claim is "confirmed"

Well I'm not disagreeing with 1, I'm disagree with the "Chris isn't any kind of prosty" possibility

2 I guess it possible but is very convoluted and Chris would be toast if the Prosty flipped

Like I don't see why we can't just explode me Chris and Sultan

Unless you're dead certain all 3 of us are town the game is easily won at that point.

So many people have Chris and Sultan and me in their POE but if we get rid of em all at once EVERYBODY LOSES THEIR MINDS.

TheSultanOfSlam posted...

holy ducks

lmao

MZero posted...

2 I guess it possible but is very convoluted and Chris would be toast if the Prosty flipped

It just means he has to play aggressively defending the prosty

Lopen posted...

Like I don't see why we can't just explode me Chris and Sultan

Unless you're dead certain all 3 of us are town the game is easily won at that point.

So many people have Chris and Sultan and me in their POE but if we get rid of em all at once EVERYBODY LOSES THEIR MINDS.

Suppose Sultan flips town.

Suddenly that changes everything, as Chris is far likelier to have been telling the truth.

But if we triple kill him, we just lose three town.

It's not that I'm dead certain you three are all town. It's that we only have two days' worth of flips to make any conclusions. We should be playing conservatively and be willing to adjust our reads based on flips since we're lacking a full story right now.

Because if we flip Sultan today and he's town, you and Chris are basically cleared. And that's hella valuable.

Plus, if Chris is actually town prosty, he'll be killed N4 at the latest. There's no reason to immediately off him right now when we can't assume we have all the information right now.

MZero posted...

Well I'm not disagreeing with 1, I'm disagree with the "Chris isn't any kind of prosty" possibility

Shoot Chris's roommate days he pairs with them

Days he pairs with

Blatantly traceable but just requires a few days of survival. Keep in mind game is lost at 5 remaining if 2 scum are alive at that point

Man I was definitely being too harsh on Kirby... i need to relax and reread before talking.

I'm sorry Kirby.

But suiciding into 2 town people is a terrible idea Lopen stop it!

POE has to be like
JC
Ulti
Dumey?

This game got me so fucking confused

Kirby321 posted...

Suddenly that changes everything, as Chris is far likelier to have been telling the truth.

He is playing like scum prosty it changes nothing

Kirby321 posted...

Because if we flip Sultan today and he's town, you and Chris are basically cleared. And that's hella valuable

How does Sultan flipping town clear me in any way

Killing Chris and he flips any kind of Protys it clears me..

Then you guys can move on to actually read the game and stop tunneling me and look for scum. I get it I played against the grain and look bad can we please catch scum now?

Lopen posted...

How does Sultan flipping town clear me in any way

It doesn't, but my stance hasn't changed on you being town. My point is that it clears Chris at the very least

TheSultanOfSlam posted...

Killing Chris and he flips any kind of Protys it clears me..

Then you guys can move on to actually read the game and stop tunneling me and look for scum. I get it I played against the grain and look bad can we please catch scum now?

I have caught scum. It's Chris. I'm not at all convinced you're his scummate actually and that's why I don't want to just lynch you

Lopen posted...

I have caught scum. It's Chris. I'm not at all convinced you're his scummate actually and that's why I don't want to just lynch you

Right but why kill all three of us if 2 of us are town?

Chris + Kirby
Chris + Ulti
Chris + Sultan

Likelihoods in that order. If you look at Kirby's POE spew it feels very much like it comes from a scum "let's path as many mislynches as possible" perspective. The solving doesn't make sense. No reason to lynch JC over Dumey here. Dumey is just JC with more steps in the gambit being convoluted.

TheSultanOfSlam posted...

Man I was definitely being too harsh on Kirby... i need to relax and reread before talking.

I'm sorry Kirby.

Apology accepted (not that I was mad at you to begin with), but do understand that I'm skeptical that you reread everything so quickly and did a complete 180 on your stance.

Nonetheless, haranguing you is no longer productive. If you're town, I hope you can start providing reads with actual substance now. Because the biggest argument against you so far is that your reads have been vague and inconsistent. Prove that you haven't just been bullshitting the entire time, and you'll be more likely to convince people you aren't scum.

TheSultanOfSlam posted...

Right but why kill all three of us if 2 of us are town?

Because a bunch of people have us in their POE and this is compromise so people sign off on lynching an inno scan.

Kirby321 posted...

It doesn't, but my stance hasn't changed on you being town. My point is that it clears Chris at the very least

It doesn't. He has played the game like scum prosty

Hey, Lopen, how are you gonna do the triple kill if I'm paired with Chris right now?

Kirby321 posted...

Hey, Lopen, how are you gonna do the triple kill if I'm paired with Chris right now?

Tomorrow

Lynch Ulti today

Lopen posted...

Tomorrow

Lynch Ulti today

I thought the whole impetus of the triple kill was that Chris and Sultan can't pair each other, thus leaving you as the Kingmaker.

Can't exactly do that tomorrow unless you're seriously entertaining putting me and Chris on the chopping block instead.

Kirby321 posted...

That's a good point. Sultan and Death were both totally unclaimed by that point. I'll give Chris a pass D1 since claims didn't start coming out until way late into the day, but by D2, he had plenty of options.

Reads like is willing to kill Chris

Kirby321 posted...

I just think Godfather Prosty is a tad overkill. We have no reason to believe that exists until we get another scum flip

Copout reason to squat on Chris forever

Literally forever if he's the last scum

If you lynch me today be sure to have Mzero 1v2 Kirby + Chris tomorrow

He's the only guy I trust to do it

Kirby321 posted...

Suddenly that changes everything, as Chris is far likelier to have been telling the truth.

The weird thing about this statement

Kirby will know with 100% certainty Chris is telling the truth if he is paired with him

Very odd statement. Feels like perspective slip in a way

Like he's advocating lynching Sultan because it clears Chris and me when Sultan flips town

Me it is literally irrelevant
Chris could still be scum prosty BUT more importantly it gives Kirby literally zero data if Sultan flips town

We will know Chris is prosty after night phase if his partner isn't killed

Why is Kirby claiming Sultan flipping town matters at all

Because he just wants Sultan lynched and is making up the argument to support it

Kirby321 posted...

Apology accepted (not that I was mad at you to begin with), but do understand that I'm skeptical that you reread everything so quickly and did a complete 180 on your stance.

To be fair just reread a quick iso for today of your thoughts didn't read back much further than that

MZero posted...

The fact that FD has nothing to say about me in that post is concerning

It's called process of elimination for a reason, I eliminated the others and what remained is where I feel scum is most likely to be. I have mitigating positive things I could find about both you and Ulti, but ultimately scum has to exist somewhere regardless of how many reasons I can find for each person not to be.

So hey, still feeling ill and got most of page 3 to read but can we please, as a community, knock off the fake outrage when there's plenty of real outrage to be had?

Forceful_Dragon posted...

It's called process of elimination for a reason, I eliminated the others and what remained is where I feel scum is most likely to be. I have mitigating positive things I could find about both you and Ulti, but ultimately scum has to exist somewhere regardless of how many reasons I can find for each person not to be.

I implore you to eliminate MZero from your POE

He doesn't encourage hero bomb plays as scum and his solving has been on point. Plus he has some choice interactions with Peaf day 1 that don't feel scum scum

Like this is the same kinda play town Mzero does when he just does silly dayvig shots

Mzero scum is more measured. It's hard to fake. There is an authenticity to his energy today

Lopen posted...

I'd REALLY like to triple kill with me Dumey and Ulti. If Chris will give me a chance to redeem myself I'll take that. If we can just kill Ulti that'll work too if you're mortally convinced Dumey is town.

Chris should then pair with Dumey (or Ulti if we kill Dumey) and let us know if he moves.

I wouldn't say "mortally convinced", but lynch ulti and prosty Dumey is a nice compromise. No triple kills

##date: JC
##date: FD
##date: MZero

Full disclosure that I reserve my breakup rights if something pings me as off, but this feels right for the wrong reasons today. Gut-check.