Current Events > There's a reason we celebrate Birthdays and not "Fertilized Egg" Days

(+) Yeah! (+)

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It is absolutely a thing. Pro-choice is another term for pro-abortion, meaning that you argue in favor of abortion procedures being legal and accessible. Being "pro abortion" doesn't mean you want abortion to be mandatory, it just means that you are in favor of abortion as a practice.

Gobstoppers12 posted...

Pro-choice is another term for pro-abortion

It is not.

DrizztLink posted...

It is not.

It is. Just because you don't like that term does not mean that it isn't a valid term.

Are you uncomfortable with the term? Because in essence, if you are pro-choice you are arguing in support of abortion practices. That means you are pro-abortion.

I celebrate Growth Scraping Day, personally.

You can try all you want, it's not the term.

This has been a free lesson, now I'm done before you stretch this stupid shit out for the next 200 posts.

DrizztLink posted...

You can try all you want, it's not the term.

It's not "the term," but it is an equally valid term for the position. When referring to pro-choice, the "choice" in this case is the choice of whether or not to have an abortion. In order for that choice to be possible, the abortion services must be accessible to those who choose to undergo the procedure.

To be pro-choice, you must also be pro-abortion. I get why those who identify as pro-choice would rather not be identified as pro-abortion, but in essence, to be pro-chocie means that you are also pro-abortion.

Pro-choice individuals definitely aren't anti-abortion, and they're not neutral regarding abortion, either. That means they are pro-abortion.

Anti-choicers shook

I really don't get the hostile reaction to pro-choice/pro abortion being the same thing. Like, I don't see a flaw in gob's semantics. Is it just optics?

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Nah. Unfortunately, you don't get to decide how others view a particular position. You can't pretend it's an invalid way of describing the situation.

I'm in favor of abortion, though I also think it's a sad and regrettable thing that should be a last resort.

I support the right to choose, but that also means I am pro abortion. It's just the way words work.

So if you want abortions to be legal, you are not "pro abortion"? Why are online "lefties" so defensive of their curated list of vocab terms?

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That's... just being mad about optics. They're the same thing. It's about which side of abortion rights you're on, right?

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Explain how it's invalid, please. I've given my reasoning for why they mean the same thing. You cannot support a woman's right to choose without also supporting the availability of abortion.

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Reiterate for me, please? Or point me to the relevant post numbers and quotes?

Even Angry Birds gets it. They don't celebrate "The Day the Egg Came Out."

They celebrate "Hatch Day."

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That... doesn't actually address the logic, though. You're not disproving the reasoning, you're just telling me that you don't like the term.

Explain to me, please, how one can be pro-choice without also being pro-abortion. They go hand in hand.

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Same thing

It's a real shame that lame mods prevent me from putting Gob in his place.

This isnt a thing?

My parents would celebrate it every year with a reenactment of that beautiful night for the whole neighborhood to watch.

Gobstoppers12 posted...

It's not "the term," but it is an equally valid term for the position. When referring to pro-choice, the "choice" in this case is the choice of whether or not to have an abortion. In order for that choice to be possible, the abortion services must be accessible to those who choose to undergo the procedure.

To be pro-choice, you must also be pro-abortion. I get why those who identify as pro-choice would rather not be identified as pro-abortion, but in essence, to be pro-chocie means that you are also pro-abortion.

Pro-choice individuals definitely aren't anti-abortion, and they're not neutral regarding abortion, either. That means they are pro-abortion.

This is an enormous pile of horse shit.

Guide posted...

That's... just being mad about optics. They're the same thing. It's about which side of abortion rights you're on, right?

No, it's about being correct. Pro-abortion implies you want people to get abortions. That's not an accurate interpretation. Pro-choice people want you to choose what is right for you. There isn't a bias towards abortion.

Anti-abortion people do not want anyone to get abortions and are against people having the choice.

Pro and anti-choice are the most accurate descriptors given these facts.

Doesn't Korea do this?

Gobstoppers12 posted...

Explain how it's invalid, please. I've given my reasoning for why they mean the same thing. You cannot support a woman's right to choose without also supporting the availability of abortion.

Pro abortion ACCESS does not = pro abortion. It's completely possible and, in fact, likely, that many people are anti abortion for themselves but believe it should be legal and easily accessible to those who need it.

If someone believes something is a sin, but does not believe anyone has a right to tell others whether or not to do those things, does that mean they are pro-sin? Are Christians that live and let live hypocrites?

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So you can't explain the difference?
Is it because people who are Pro-Choice are the umbrella which pro-abortion falls under?

Ever thought arguing pointless semantics to the point where your only response to someone was "fuck off" was a waste of your time?

Maverick_Reznor posted...

So you can't explain the difference?
Is it because people who are Pro-Choice are the umbrella which pro-abortion falls under?

Ever thought arguing pointless semantics to the point where your only response to someone was "fuck off" was a waste of your time?

The proper response to being wrong is to apologize and stop speaking. I know it's tough, but be a big boy.

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You are, do yourself a favor and get off it.

Maverick_Reznor posted...

You are, do yourself a favor and get off it.

Does being pro-choice imply that one wants people to get abortions? Yes or no? Or does it merely say they support people having choice? Not being opposed to someone getting an abortion does not mean you prefer people to get abortions over giving birth. A proper pro-choice person should not have a bias at all.

I'm a little out of the loop outside of NPR segments I've heard of the case. Did the company that mishandled the embryos try to make right by the family who's embryos were destroyed before this became a huge deal?

Deutschenlied posted...

Does being pro-choice imply that one wants people to get abortions? Yes or no? Or does it merely say they support people having choice? Not being opposed to someone getting an abortion does not mean you prefer people to get abortions over giving birth. A proper pro-choice person should not have a bias at all.

They want the ability to get abortions so they are pro abortion (see how semantics comes into play and it's a stupid argument to have?)

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I'm not trying to "delegitimize" anything. I'm not even arguing for or against any stance here. You have no idea what my position is.

I'm just saying that IF this was supposed to be an argument for abortion (again, I'm only suspecting it might be because I don't understand what other sort of context it's supposed to fall in), it's a bad one to make, and many better ones exist.

If that fact would upset you, too fucking bad.

i'm not arguing pointless semantics.

You absolutely are, but keep at it; I'm just sitting over here thinking it's hilarious.

philsov posted...

I'm pretty sure I was conceived on Valentine's day. Scorpio, baby~

Scheduled for the 17th. Born on the 10th.

Valentines day is the 14th... 9 months earlier. Yeah i have realized as much.

If we're calling pro choice people "pro abortion", you should logically refer to pro life people as "pro women's suffering", as well as "pro abortion" ironically. Restricting abortion access directly leads to women suffering and an increase in the number of abortions carried out. We've also see that American conservatives are not willing to make exceptions for rape, incest or medical emergencies, so by this logic you would have to be in favour of that too.

Alternatively, you could just discuss this in good faith. Choice is yours.

I would guess I was conceived around Halloween.

reincarnator07 posted...

If we're calling pro choice people "pro abortion", you should logically refer to pro life people as "pro women's suffering", as well as "pro abortion" ironically. Restricting abortion access directly leads to women suffering and an increase in the number of abortions carried out. We've also see that American conservatives are not willing to make exceptions for rape, incest or medical emergencies, so by this logic you would have to be in favour of that too.

Alternatively, you could just discuss this in good faith. Choice is yours.

Pro women suffering

Pro women enslavement

Pro anti women

this topic is so dumb that i am now anti-abortion

Some very flawed, and extremely cowardly, 'look mom, I'm ever so smart!' attempts at an argument in this thread.

You can support a person's freedom to act without endorsing every action that they take.

I used to have fun telling friends "Happy birthday! Can you believe that [x] years and nine months ago your parents fucked?"

I don't have any friends anymore.