Current Events > Israel intentionally targeted WCK workers

(+) Yeah! (+)

Trumble posted...

He will, which is why supporting him is even worse. That doesn't mean it isn't completely understandable why a lot of people no longer want to support Biden either.

If you view Biden and Trump as the same on this issue, as both Israel supporters, then voting neither is completely understandable.

If you view Trump as worse for the Palestinian people, then opposing Trump is absolutely vital if you actually give any shits about the Palestinian people. Who wants to hear "Things are so bad for you and I feel so bad that I just completely stopped fighting the back slide into even worse territory"

bfslick50 posted...

If you view Biden and Trump as the same on this issue, as both Israel supporters, then voting neither is completely understandable.

If you view Trump as worse for the Palestinian people, then opposing Trump is absolutely vital if you actually give any shits about the Palestinian people. Who wants to hear "Things are so bad for you and I feel so bad that I just completely stopped fighting the back slide into even worse territory"

Is it really relevant whether theyre killing Palestinians enthusiastically like Trump would or killing them and pretending to be upset about it with his fingers crossed behind his back

end result is the same

bfslick50 posted...

If you view Biden and Trump as the same on this issue, as both Israel supporters, then voting neither is completely understandable.

If you view Trump as worse for the Palestinian people, then opposing Trump is absolutely vital if you actually give any shits about the Palestinian people. Who wants to hear "Things are so bad for you and I feel so bad that I just completely stopped fighting the back slide into even worse territory"

A difference of degree stops mattering when even the lesser degree has gone way too far.

TheGoldenEel posted...

Is it really relevant whether theyre killing Palestinians enthusiastically like Trump would or killing them and pretending to be upset about it with his fingers crossed behind his back

end result is the same

Great, so once you've established that they're both bad for Palestine, then you look at all of their other policy positions and realize that Trump is still 100x worse

TheGoldenEel posted...

Is it really relevant whether theyre killing Palestinians enthusiastically like Trump would or killing them and pretending to be upset about it with his fingers crossed behind his back

end result is the same

If you view them as the same then vote neither. If you view one as going to kill significantly more, then that's not the same.

Trumble posted...

A difference of degree stops mattering when even the lesser degree has gone way too far.

I'm confident the people that would've survived the lesser degree disagree with you.

Talk2DaHand posted...

Disgusting country.

This

I literally would not give a shit if the neighboring countries ganged up on them

bfslick50 posted...

If you view Biden and Trump as the same on this issue, as both Israel supporters, then voting neither is completely understandable.

If you view Trump as worse for the Palestinian people, then opposing Trump is absolutely vital if you actually give any shits about the Palestinian people. Who wants to hear "Things are so bad for you and I feel so bad that I just completely stopped fighting the back slide into even worse territory"

Throughout the day, Ive been subjected to intense scrutiny for my decision not to vote, with some even labeling me a supporter of Trump because I refuse to cast my ballot for Joe. Others, who are voting for Joe with enthusiasm, accuse those who abstain from voting as supporters of genocide, rather than those who actively endorse it. Lets consider a hypothetical scenario: if Idi Amin and Pol Pot were the presidential candidates, and I declared my refusal to support either of these notorious figures, would it be reasonable to insist that I must choose the lesser of two evils? The expectation to vote for Idi Amin simply because hes perceived as marginally less evil than Pol Pot is a flawed argument. I am weary of being coerced into voting for what I perceive as evil, regardless of its degree. The act of voting should be a conscious choice to support a candidate who aligns with ones values and principles, not a pressured decision to select the least objectionable option.

And it is so funny. The attacks on people who don't want to vote for Joe have changed so much. Luckly I have not seen much of this first one here. But people were call terrorist supporters , then racist even, now it just shut up and vote. Hillary even said get over it. So Democrats not even trying anymore. Just vote for us. Over and over it's Trump is that much worse. And I personally was on board with that . I hate the situation, but dammit Trump is a monster . But at some point you have to say NO.

Oh, so Biden is as bad as actual mass murderers now?

Close your account

cjsdowg posted...

if Idi Amin and Pol Pot were the presidential candidates, and I declared my refusal to support either of these notorious figures, would it be reasonable to insist that I must choose the lesser of two evils? The expectation to vote for Idi Amin simply because hes perceived as marginally less evil than Pol Pot is a flawed argument. I am weary of being coerced into voting for what I perceive as evil, regardless of its degree. The act of voting should be a conscious choice to support a candidate who aligns with ones values and principles, not a pressured decision to select the least objectionable option.

If you view Idi Amin and Pol Pot as equivalent, then you should abstain. If less people die by one of them being elected, then voting is an action that can save lives. Definitely do all in your power to make the choices better next time, but indifference to more deaths is also a form of evil.

I'm not saying you should vote for Biden. I'm asking, do you view them as equivalent? Do you think roughly the same number of Palestinians will die under either regime? Or is there an action you can take that will reduce the death toll? If you care about them, then do what you can. Although to be perfectly honest, we should probably all be the people over there volunteering like the WCK workers.

cjsdowg posted...

And it is so funny. The attacks on people who don't want to vote for Joe have changed so much. Luckly I have not seen much of this first one here. But people were call terrorist supporters , then racist even, now it just shut up and vote. Hillary even said get over it. So Democrats not even trying anymore. Just vote for us. Over and over it's Trump is that much worse. And I personally was on board with that . I hate the situation, but dammit Trump is a monster . But at some point you have to say NO.

Those attacks on you were extreme and uncalled for. The Dems have a lot of faults, but they're trying: Respect for Marriage Act, Cancelling Student Debt, Infrastructure Bill, Closing Gun Background Check Loophole, Getting Economy Back On Track, etc.

You brought up Clinton, let's talk about the people who said to Clinton "at some point you have to say NO" and let's imagine how that same fucking speech goes when talking to one of the immigrant children that Trump separated from their families. Those people could in 2016 claim ignorance, that they didn't know how bad Trump would be, but they're still going to claim that in 2024?

Fight to make the world better. If you see both options as equally bad then don't vote, but if you see a difference then you've got to act. You've got to save the lives you can.

bfslick50 posted...

If you view Idi Amin and Pol Pot as equivalent, then you should abstain. If less people die by one of them being elected, then voting is an action that can save lives. Definitely do all in your power to make the choices better next time, but indifference to more deaths is also a form of evil.

I'm not saying you should vote for Biden. I'm asking, do you view them as equivalent? Do you think roughly the same number of Palestinians will die under either regime? Or is there an action you can take that will reduce the death toll? If you care about them, then do what you can. Although to be perfectly honest, we should probably all be the people over there volunteering like the WCK workers.

Those attacks on you were extreme and uncalled for. The Dems have a lot of faults, but they're trying: Respect for Marriage Act, Cancelling Student Debt, Infrastructure Bill, Closing Gun Background Check Loophole, Getting Economy Back On Track, etc.

You brought up Clinton, let's talk about the people who said to Clinton "at some point you have to say NO" and let's imagine how that same fucking speech goes when talking to one of the immigrant children that Trump separated from their families. Those people could in 2016 claim ignorance, that they didn't know how bad Trump would be, but they're still going to claim that in 2024?

Fight to make the world better. If you see both options as equally bad then don't vote, but if you see a difference then you've got to act. You've got to save the lives you can.

I see what you are saying..but look at this topic. They are blowing up food and workers and we are paying for it . I just so lost for words to express this feeling

Sorry about that. I rambled.

Although in the current system, voting third party has little practical effect, choosing a candidate who isn't evil is usually more ethical than inaction.
Still, a larger number of non-voters should not be ignored. It can indicate an attempt at protest.

https://twitter.com/IDF/status/1775290147426152931

Well that explains

I know my coworker will continue to say Israel can do no wrong because they're God's people after this.

One candidate, at worst, can be described as enabling a nation on the other side of the planet to commit genocide.

The other candidate will actively engage in that genocide, as well as enact genocide here, severely restrict the civil liberties and enact autocratic fascism, and allow Russia to run rampant over critical food resource nations.

Clearly these are the same, and you should feel bad about telling me to vote for Candidate A. I am very smart and not at all a putz.

mistymermaid posted...

A fiasco decades in the making. To unravel the background leading up to all of this, takes a grasp of Zionism, the Ottoman Empire, the British Empire...

Let's stop this.

The Ottoman Empire isn't making the IDF murder aid workers. That's their choice and their doing. They don't get to escape one iota of blame for these actions because of the past. They could just choose not to kill civilians.

Charismic_Zach_Gowen posted...

One candidate, at worst, can be described as enabling a nation on the other side of the planet to commit genocide.

The other candidate will actively engage in that genocide, as well as enact genocide here, severely restrict the civil liberties and enact autocratic fascism, and allow Russia to run rampant over critical food resource nations.

Clearly these are the same, and you should feel bad about telling me to vote for Candidate A. I am very smart and not at all a putz.

People keep saying this to do play Biden. This isn't the case. They have killed Americans and Biden gave them more arms. Even bypassing congress. So what will Trump do that worst then Biden's blind eye?

cjsdowg posted...

People keep saying this to do play Biden. This isn't the case. They have killed Americans and Biden gave them more arms. Even bypassing congress. So what will Trump do that worst then Biden's blind eye?

All of his domestic and other foreign policy?

Honestly, I do have sympathy for your point of view, and I can fully understand why some people find it near impossible to stomach Biden for his weakness and complicity in the slaughter of Palestinians, aid workers, and journalists.

But the alternative is Trump. And Republican wins just have a history of moving the Democrats to the right to chase 'centrist' votes, rather than pressuring them to shift left. There is no third party that is not a bad joke. There is no 'none of the above' party waiting in the wings.

darkace77450 posted...

https://twitter.com/IDF/status/1775290147426152931

"We just saw someone bringing resources to Palestinians and naturally assumed it was weapons delivered to Hamas. We acted impulsively and didn't bother checking the movement of aid workers that were communicated to us. We're at war and that is no time to plan your attacks. We just go go go until there is nothing left, but believe me we had no ill-will towards the people we killed."

What an asshat.

cjsdowg posted...

So what will Trump do that worst then Biden's blind eye?

Actively support the annexation of Gaza and a forced relocation of all remaining Palestinians in Gaza to the West Bank, which will also be shrunk in size as he officially recognizes more spaces as part of Israel. Plus there's his general calming rhetoric that will refer to Palestinians as animals and definitely lead to other horrendous policy decisions.

bfslick50 posted...

Actively support the annexation of Gaza and a forced relocation of all remaining Palestinians in Gaza to the West Bank, which will also be shrunk in size as he officially recognizes more spaces as part of Israel. Plus there's his general calming rhetoric that will refer to Palestinians as animals and definitely lead to other horrendous policy decisions.

They keep displacing people from Gaza as we speak and taking more land in the West Bank while attacking ppl there as well .

cjsdowg posted...

People keep saying this to do play Biden. This isn't the case. They have killed Americans and Biden gave them more arms. Even bypassing congress. So what will Trump do that worst then Biden's blind eye?

Congress could put a stop to that any time they want. But they wont.

ai123 posted...

ai123 posted...

All of his domestic and other foreign policy?

Honestly, I do have sympathy for your point of view, and I can fully understand why some people find it near impossible to stomach Biden for his weakness and complicity in the slaughter of Palestinians, aid workers, and journalists.

But the alternative is Trump. And Republican wins just have a history of moving the Democrats to the right to chase 'centrist' votes, rather than pressuring them to shift left. There is no third party that is not a bad joke. There is no 'none of the above' party waiting in the wings.

See i get that Trump will be so horrible on every other level. But just for this people keep saying how much worst Trump would be here. And I just don't see that. Since behind said point blank there is nothing they can do to lose our support. While these same ppl over there attack him. How crazy is that.

cjsdowg posted...

See i get that Trump will be so horrible on every other level. But just for this people keep saying how much worst Trump would be here. And I just don't see that. Since behind said point blank there is nothing they can do to lose our support. While these same ppl over there attack him. How crazy is that.

Trump has openly encouraged them to "finish it quickly."

darkace77450 posted...

Trump has openly encouraged them to "finish it quickly."

This. Trump talks about everything, but his people have been able to keep him pretty quiet on this issue, why do you think that is? He is the worst, he absolutely will find a way to make this worse.

All of Congress and the Senate is complicit in this as well

Isreali government are terrorists and war criminals.

ai123 posted...

Let's stop this.

The Ottoman Empire isn't making the IDF murder aid workers. That's their choice and their doing. They don't get to escape one iota of blame for these actions because of the past. They could just choose not to kill civilians.

I wasn't commenting on Israel's actions. I was describing how the region became steeped in conflict.

Israel released some details.

They had drone footage watching them. One of the volunteers had something slung over their shoulder they thought looked like a gun, so naturally they assumed they were Hamas, they did deliver a thing to a building after all. So they ordered their execution with the people making the order never bothering to check reported routes of known aid workers. Israel says they "fired" 2 officers, but what does that even mean? They probably don't mean dishonorably discharged, so just reassigned?

They haven't released the footage. They admitted on second inspection what they thought was a gun was probably a bag and they claim it was too dark to read the logos on the vans. But it probably wasn't too dark to see that there were logos on a white van. The IDF had the intel that WCK was traveling that route at that time in white vans marked with their logo.

If we ever see the footage, I'm betting the logo is readable and the story will change to they assumed Hamas was using WCK vans by either stealing them, making fakes, or working in coordination with WCK.

This is entirely typical of how Israel has operated. Guess someone is a Hamas and immediately kill them. A hunch is a good enough justification for them.

https://www.cnn.com/2024/04/05/middleeast/israel-idf-world-central-kitchen-strike-report-intl/index.html

bfslick50 posted...

A hunch is a good enough justification for them.

A high opinion if you think they even require a hunch

bfslick50 posted...

This is entirely typical of how Israel has operated. Guess someone is a Hamas and immediately kill them. A hunch is a good enough justification for them.

Shoot first, ask questions later...and only if the international community demands answers.

darkace77450 posted...

Shoot first, ask questions later...and only if the international community demands answers.

And even then they will deny deny deflect deny at first

darkace77450 posted...

Shoot first, ask questions later...and only if the international community demands answers.

Yep. If the international community didn't ask for answers then those 7 killed would 100% be listed as killed members of Hamas.

bfslick50 posted...

Yep. If the international community didn't ask for answers then those 7 killed would 100% be listed as killed members of Hamas.

Right. The uncomfortable truth is that their passports matter here. Just like with the three Israeli hostages that were shot. IDF cannot possibly sweep these under the rug.

There's been 20,000 civilian deaths including aid workers, health care workers and unprecedented amounts of journalists. Those killed with only a Palestinian passport are not offered this sort of scrutiny, and generally don't get their names and photos shown in the internationals newspapers.

Hornezz posted...

Right. The uncomfortable truth is that their passports matter here. Just like with the three Israeli hostages that were shot. IDF cannot possibly sweep these under the rug.

There's been 20,000 civilian deaths including aid workers, health care workers and unprecedented amounts of journalists. Those killed with only a Palestinian passport are not offered this sort of scrutiny, and generally don't get their names and photos shown in the internationals newspapers.

We dont know how many real civilians that have died, Israel counts every adult male as a Hamas member.

bfslick50 posted...

they claim it was too dark to read the logos on the vans

I call bullshit. There are some low-end, consumer-grade drones on the market with cameras good enough, even at night, to have been able to read those rooftop logos.

You can't tell me that milspec hardware with targeting software and optics has shittier cameras than what I can go pick up at the last remaining Radio Shacks in the country.

bfslick50 posted...

the story will change to they assumed Hamas was using WCK vans by either stealing them, making fakes, or working in coordination with WCK.

That is how they justified sending an assassination squad into a hospital dressed as medical workers. "Hamas did it first," when hamas... didn't. And they were just wounded in there.

But, you know, "Mistakes were made!"

DnDer posted...

I call bullshit. There are some low-end, consumer-grade drones on the market with cameras good enough, even at night, to have been able to read those rooftop logos.

You can't tell me that milspec hardware with targeting software and optics has shittier cameras than what I can go pick up at the last remaining Radio Shacks in the country.

TO add to that , they told them right where they would be .

And the Media is carrying water for Israel.

cjsdowg posted...

And the Media is carrying water for Israel.

Their main anchors aren't pushing on this like they should be, not connecting the dots to civilians are being indiscriminately targeted, but they do for those willing to look past what they have front & center, they do have content exposing the horrors being committed.

https://www.cnn.com/interactive/2024/04/middleeast/palestinians-voice-notes-gaza-dg/

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Yep. Anyone willing to unconditionally support any person, organization, or nation is dangerous.

Fetterman only barely beat Oz so hopefully his seat is vulnerable for primary in 2028

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Also he's not even close to manchin 2.0. Manchin is in a completely different league and comes from a time when Pro-Life Democrats (of which he is one) were still a thing.

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Wiped his ass with all the goodwill he earned over the course of like 8 months.

With Fetterman, the check cleared. He loves that sweet AIPAC money.

Fetterman chased down someone with gun for jogging in his town. So he has already been an asshole this isn't new.

Has he been legislatively consistent with being on the good guy team other than the Israel stuff?

Or has everything he's done been equally disappointing?

I swear, I feels like he all but disappeared from the news after the dress code thing.

fetterman is a generic establishment democrat and the only thing notable about him other than a handful of gimmicks that are more about putting himself in the news than anything is how super-vocal he is in favor of israel