Current Events > Pelosi Asks Gaza Campus Protesters to Target Both Israel and Hamas

(+) Yeah! (+)

Protests are directed at governments. What government is helping Hamas?

It's fine to blame & condemn Hamas for their behavior but there is no equivalence between the two at this point and bringing it up feels like it's deliberately in bad faith considering the sheer magnitude of the war crimes the IDF is currently committing.

I'd settle for them just protesting Israel if they stopped cheering on hamas

Protesting Hamas in America is pretty pointless.

We don't fund Hamas or ally with Hamas. Hamas doesn't have huge lobbying groups or a formal diplomatic relationship with us.

It is strange seeing so many people sympathetic to Hamas here. Maybe we should go back and post pictures of what they did on October 7.

kelemvor posted...

It is strange seeing so many people sympathetic to Hamas here. Maybe we should go back and post pictures of what they did on October 7.

Are you fucking serious

Zero_Destroyer posted...

It's fine to blame & condemn Hamas for their behavior but there is no equivalence between the two at this point and bringing it up feels like it's deliberately in bad faith considering the sheer magnitude of the war crimes the IDF is currently committing.

Israel had made peace and given Hamas what they've wanted over the years. Hamas just uses the down time to build up weapons, dig tunnels, and wait for their chance to break the peace. I don't know why people think the IDF was going to let it slide this time. After 9/11 the USA invaded 2 countries and we didn't get nearly the backlash Israel is facing.

kelemvor posted...

It is strange seeing so many people sympathetic to Hamas here. Maybe we should go back and post pictures of what they did on October 7.

No one is sympathetic to Hamas

The US government (both parties) aren't openly supporting Hamas, they are openly supporting the Israeli government's invasion of Palestine despite numerous war crimes and human rights violations

It's like if people were protesting anti abortions laws and the response was "Why don't you guys protest FGM too? Why are you sympathetic to it?"

It's a lazy deflection

America does not have any sway over Hamas and does not provide them billions in aid. This is a shallow attempt to both sides the issue while we are backing a genocide.

I ask her to shut up on everything forever. That's my earnest request and deepest wish.

Diceheist posted...

Protests are directed at governments. What government is helping Hamas?

Israel.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/

So ironically enough protesting Israel is protesting Hamas.

Diceheist posted...

Protests are directed at governments. What government is helping Hamas?

Bibi gave them funds.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/

kelemvor posted...

After 9/11 the USA invaded 2 countries and we didn't get nearly the backlash Israel is facing.

We should've, nothing the US did in response to 9/11 was in any way sane or justified. I think that's the point a lot of millenials/gen z are trying to communicate: We've seen this song & dance before. Killing hundreds of thousands of Iraqis wasn't justified for 9/11, so why would a genocide be for October 7th?

Wow it's so nice that all the refugees from other social boards are here now to discuss Politics really feels like seven years ago all over again.

To be clear; yes, October 7th was bad. Destroying hospitals, universities, graveyards, gunning down people seeking food, intentionally sniping children, and bombing international aid workers to death is substantially worse. Deflecting to October 7th has less mileage every single day we stray farther from it if the response to October 7th is to just rampantly commit war crimes.

No. The only proper choice is to fully blame Israel.35.29%

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/4/49a30913.jpg

Diceheist posted...

Protests are directed at governments. What government is helping Hamas?

Israel

Zero_Destroyer posted...

To be clear; yes, October 7th was bad. Destroying hospitals, universities, graveyards, gunning down people seeking food, intentionally sniping children, and bombing international aid workers to death is substantially worse. Deflecting to October 7th has less mileage every single day we stray farther from it if the response to October 7th is to just rampantly commit war crimes.

What do you think should happen to Hamas for what they did on Oct 7th?

Itachi157 posted...

What do you think should happen to Hamas for what they did on Oct 7th?

The good options that didn't involve instant escalation into murdering tens of thousands of civilians are clearly no longer on the table, so what's the point of this question, especially when Israel itself helped put Hamas into their position?

Yes, I do condemn the murders carried out Hamas. I do not support their aims.

No, I shouldn't have to say that every time I want to condemn the Israeli government for their ethnic cleansing and the slaughter of tens of thousands of Palestinians.

Zero_Destroyer posted...

The good options that didn't involve instant escalation into murdering tens of thousands of civilians are clearly no longer on the table, so what's the point of this question, especially when Israel itself helped put Hamas into their position?

What wouldve been the good options?

Itachi157 posted...

What wouldve been the good options?

Not engaging in ethnic cleansing.

Guns_of_Verdun posted...

No one is sympathetic to Hamas

The US government (both parties) aren't openly supporting Hamas, they are openly supporting the Israeli government's invasion of Palestine despite numerous war crimes and human rights violations

It's like if people were protesting anti abortions laws and the response was "Why don't you guys protest FGM too? Why are you sympathetic to it?"

It's a lazy deflection

That's the thing people can't get through their heads. Not a single person is in support of Hamas, what Hamas did is awful, it never should have happened and they deserve to be punished for it.

What they also don't get is Israel isn't just targeting Hamas, they're targeting the Palestinian people more than they're targeting Hamas.

The constant deflection from people that support Israel in their actions is honestly sickening, same with people that say things like "so you're anti-semitic?"

Zero_Destroyer posted...

Not engaging in ethnic cleansing.

so you have no answer to the question. Or maybe the answer is just nothing should happen to them

kelemvor posted...

It is strange seeing so many people sympathetic to Hamas here. Maybe we should go back and post pictures of what they did on October 7.

No one here is sympathetic to Hamas. Shut the fuck up.

Israel is genociding all Palestinians because they publicly hate them and view them as animals.

The terror group they help fund killing innocent Israelis merely gives them a better excuse than they have had recently to continue the genocide.

Isn't it funny how that goes? That a terror attack doesn't give you an excuse to indiscriminately murder as many innocent people as possible in response?

Itachi157 posted...

so you have no answer to the question. Or maybe the answer is just nothing should happen to them

The actual answer that would've been more achievable is a less scorched earth approach that probably involves arrests or assassinations of the figures involved. This would be difficult to achieve since Hamas does like to hide in civilian shelters, but do you think destroying those civilian locations and killing far, far more people than the initial attack did is a valid response?

Itachi157 posted...

so you have no answer to the question. Or maybe the answer is just nothing should happen to them

Them: "Israel shouldn't commit genocide."

You: "Oh so Hamas should get off free for committing a terror attack?"

I'm sure you'd calmly accept your fate if America got bombed into the stone age because terrorists from America killed people, right? Lament that the terrorists are responsible for killing you?

Both, but these specific protests are directed at the US government. I'd argue that America has diplomatic power it could use to bring an end to this, but what's not up for dispute is that America chooses who it arms. It's choosing to arm Israel and is aiding in a genocide in doing so.

"Stop selling weapons to those using them to carry out a genocide" is an insanely low bar that the protesters want America to reach. Let's start there.

This is a really stupid and out of touch thing to say.

Basically the equivalent of the people saying "All lives matter" during the Black Lives Matter protests.

Strider102 posted...

Not a single person is in support of Hamas,

Not necessarily itt but yea there are people in this movement that are definitely in support of hamas. I dont know why we need to deny that.

hockeybabe89 posted...

Them: "Israel shouldn't commit genocide."

You: "Oh so Hamas should get off free for committing a terror attack?"

I'm sure you'd calmly accept your fate if America got bombed into the stone age because terrorists from America killed people, right? Lament that the terrorists are responsible for killing you?

Well, if as an American my GOVERNMENT (not just random terrorists) decided to kill a bunch of people in a depraved degenerate terrorist attack and then promised to do it again at the next opportunity, I would probably have a bit of anger at said government when the people attacked counterattack and Im caught in the crossfire, yes.

moreso when my government deliberately puts me in harms way as part of their dumb plan

kelemvor posted...

It is strange seeing so many people sympathetic to Hamas here. Maybe we should go back and post pictures of what they did on October 7.

Israel have killed more than 3000% of what died during Oct 7, are we going to see those pics as well?

Itachi157 posted...

Well, if as an American my GOVERNMENT (not just random terrorists) decided to kill a bunch of people in a depraved degenerate terrorist attack and then promised to do it again at the next opportunity, I would probably have a bit of anger at said government when the people attacked counterattack and Im caught in the crossfire, yes.

moreso when my government deliberately puts me in harms way as part of their dumb plan

TF? Yea, a lot of Palestinians are angry at Hamas. Nearly half the population wasn't even born yet the last time they had an election.

Itachi157 posted...

so you have no answer to the question. Or maybe the answer is just nothing should happen to them

Why cant you just agree that genocide shouldnt be on the table? Are you pro-genocide?

Israel out there bombing and killing all of Hamas members' families and it's going to be the opinion of college students protesting in the US that is going to make them change their minds? I'd get protesting institutions on both sides if the protested institutions are involved with both sides, but they are not. The protests can apply pressure on Israel, they cannot apply pressure on Hamas.

Itachi157 posted...

Well, if as an American my GOVERNMENT (not just random terrorists) decided to kill a bunch of people in a depraved degenerate terrorist attack and then promised to do it again at the next opportunity, I would probably have a bit of anger at said government when the people attacked counterattack and Im caught in the crossfire, yes.

moreso when my government deliberately puts me in harms way as part of their dumb plan

Both sides are evil. Shut the fuck up and reconsider having opinions.

Fuck Israel. They have been actively genociding Palestine for DECADES.

It's been 6 months of indiscriminate slaughter since 10/7. They don't get to keep going "Whoopsie! Collateral damage! We have a right to defend ourselves from terrorism!" The Israeli government is a terror organization and they have zero moral superiority over the other terror organization government. Let's also not forget that Netanyahu funds Hamas so he can have a villian so he can justify acting like a certain person that people ran away to Israel to escape.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XBlyA8L0bbs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=221-eNg_sZI
these videos of bassem youssef explain better my feeling on this BS talking point non of us support hamas but the poor people in gaza that are being killed

ToteAll posted...

No. The only proper choice is to fully blame Israel.35.29%

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/4/49a30913.jpg

In terms of protesting its 100% correct. Obviously Hamas is far from blameless but protesting Hamas is a pointless deflection.

Shitty ass poll.

At least she's no longer saying the protesters are working with Putin.

Shadow_Don posted...

Not necessarily itt but yea there are people in this movement that are definitely in support of hamas. I dont know why we need to deny that.

You seriously can't help yourself but to enter every single one of these topics to try to muddy the waters about these protesters and try to paint more and more of them as "Pro-Hamas"

I've never once seen you post about how worrying it is that people are "Pro-IDF" or how counter protesters are basically "Pro genocide"

Nope. Your concern is strictly on anyone that is Pro Palestinian emancipation as you try to find a way to paint it as they're actually "Pro Hamas". It's fucking gross and begs the question of what you're actually trying to accomplish.

Do you want the protests to stop? What is your goal here?

NoMeLx22x posted...

Do you want the protests to stop? What is your goal here?

They should continue. Most people in the protests are genuinely fine i believe.

I just think it's massively being downplayed how many antisemites and/or hamas supporters are attaching themselves to the movement and its not being called out or dealt with like at all.

It might be a personal thing thats biasing me and maybe I need to chill out but yea I work in academia and was kind of shocked seeing colleagues/students that I interact with endorse oct 7.

There is even a professor at Columbia that very openly endorsed and was emotional gushing over the attack and there have been zero fucking consequences. I dont get it.

And nah, if some students were celebrating innocent people in gaza being killed I think they should be outright expelled.

Shadow_Don posted...

I just think it's massively being downplayed how many antisemites and/or hamas supporters are attaching themselves to the movement and its not being called out or dealt with like at all.

You legit sound like a right-winger trying to cast BLM protests are mostly violent/protests. What makes you think this, do you have any documented evidence that supports this notion that it's being downplayed?

Because to most people, it's like most protests where they are overwhelmingly decent and bad faith actors use that gathering to shove in their own extremist messaging/actions.

Kradek posted...

Because to most people, it's like most protests where they are overwhelmingly decent and bad faith actors use that gathering to shove in their own extremist messaging/actions.

Its not just random outsiders though, its groups like sjp. Like actually look at the shit they post and say it's unhinged.

Shadow_Don posted...

Its not just random outsiders though, its groups like sjp. Like actually look at the shit they post and say it's unhinged.

Looking up their statements on https://nationalsjp.org/statements

What exactly do you take issue with, or is it posts on Twitter? I don't follow anything on Twitter and at this point only have an account for a friend who shares links he thinks are funny from it or to berate right-wing sack of shit politicians for being sacks of shit, so I'd need some clarification, please.

About to go to work so I'll read more from that site later, however I got through the first 4 statements and I saw nothing wrong with that they want. You might be anti-BDS, I'm pro-BDS because I feel like Israel gets a magical pass from repercussions that no other country, such as Cuba, Iran, or Russia, would reasonably get.

So if that's one of the statements you're talking about, then I don't think we'd be able to see eye to eye on the issue.

Kradek posted...

I dont have an issue with literally every word they say, I probably agree with a lot of it.

If you're still curious after work look up "day of resistance toolkit" which is a document the national chapter put out for all chapters to follow.

The chapter at my university outright said that oct 7 wasn't terrorism and that they supported resistance in all its forms.

Ehh, I agree purely for the optics. There is no negative aspect of calling out for hostage release and for Hamas to leave, while also demanding a ceasefire, divestment, etc.

It's one of the cases where it's not so much about effectiveness, but more that a simple change in tone and slogan makes the message more receptive to normies.

kelemvor posted...

It is strange seeing so many people sympathetic to Hamas here. Maybe we should go back and post pictures of what they did on October 7.

its strange because being against israel doesnt mean your sympathetic to hamas. Honestly israel needs to be reigned in. Theyre a destructive force like hamas.