Current Events > I wish folks realized how "From the river to the sea" feels to Jews

(+) Yeah! (+)

I do think its vile to wag your finger at someone for their rhetoric while you bomb their homes and starve them out. But how dare they have the audacity to cry out for freedom? Thats the real evil, isnt it?

I think it's pretty telling how, to some people, the mere thought of a free Palestine somehow implies genocide while the actual genocide happening in Palestine rn is somehow not a genocide to these same people.

Smashingpmkns posted...

I think it's pretty telling how, to some people, the mere thought of a free Palestine somehow implies genocide while the actual genocide happening in Palestine rn is somehow not a genocide to these same people.

I think it shows their true feelings about how they see Palestinians in general.

Smashingpmkns posted...

I think it's pretty telling how, to some people, the mere thought of a free Palestine somehow implies genocide while the actual genocide happening in Palestine rn is somehow not a genocide to these same people.

Precisely. "Thoughts of a genocide are scary!" Oh are they? Then why is Israel committing one?

Sandalorn posted...

I'm sure the specific usage of "pig shit" was just an odd coincidence here right? Talk about the pot calling the kettle black.

Elaborate. Dude said Jewish feelings don't matter because Israel is attacking Palestinians. He's a blatant racist. If that offends you, you're likely no better.

masterbarf posted...

Elaborate. Dude said Jewish feelings don't matter because Israel is attacking Palestinians. He's a blatant racist. If that offends you, you're likely no better.

And the guy that uses a thousand year old insult to imply Muslims aren't even human is not worthy of saying anything...ever. You used that specific term on purpose.

Smashingpmkns posted...

I think it's pretty telling how, to some people, the mere thought of a free Palestine somehow implies genocide while the actual genocide happening in Palestine rn is somehow not a genocide to these same people.

So what do you think Hamas means when they say this phrase?

And do you think genocide should be met with genocide? If the shoe was on the other foot would that be suddenly ok?

codey posted...

Precisely. "Thoughts of a genocide are scary!" Oh are they? Then why is Israel committing one?

Do you realize what you are saying? I don't know if you do. like listen to yourself....Read it back and think about it.

HHH_is_the_game posted...

Phrases are more than just their origin. Phrases can be co-opted

So why doesn't this apply to the phrase in question?

Why are you more up in arms about a phrase that could potentially refer to genocide than the ACTUAL genocide that's currently ongoing?

HHH_is_the_game posted...

And do you think genocide should be met with genocide? If the shoe was on the other foot would that be suddenly ok?

this was posted without a hint of irony

HHH_is_the_game posted...

And do you think genocide should be met with genocide? If the shoe was on the other foot would that be suddenly ok?

Ooof the mask is slipping homie, might want to reel it back a bit.

HHH_is_the_game posted...

So what do you think Hamas means when they say this phrase?

And do you think genocide should be met with genocide? If the shoe was on the other foot would that be suddenly ok?

I think the general meaning is that Palestinians are fighting for the day they can move freely and have agency from the river to the sea. This phrase is not a call for genocide, and to believe that it is says more about you than the people chanting the phrase.

Murphiroth posted...

So why doesn't this apply to the phrase in question?

Why are you more up in arms about a phrase that could potentially refer to genocide than the ACTUAL genocide that's currently ongoing?

I am so interested in his response.

Don't really care how it makes anyone feel when the Israelis are engaging in genocide. The only things that matter are ending their genocide and ousting the current colonial apartheid state from power.

Murphiroth posted...

Ooof the mask is slipping homie, might want to reel it back a bit.

I feel like you have to be mis-reading me because two people brought up this phrase and I don't get what they think I'm saying. My point is, Israel committing a genocide does not mean that you should use phrases that make Jewish people feel like you are cheering for THEIR genocide in response. Anti-semitic violence is also a real threat too. If we know genocide is bad, then Hamas genociding Israel would be an awful thing also. If the shoe was on the other foot, and Israel was the victim, this would be equally horrible. That is what I was saying.

Smashingpmkns posted...

I think the general meaning is that Palestinians are fighting for the day they can move freely and have agency from the river to the sea. This phrase is not a call for genocide, and to believe that it is says more about you than the people chanting the phrase.

Yeah, this might be what most of them mean. But to hear this not be quieted down with its association with Hamas and their rhetoric, it scares you about anti-semitic sentiment in America/the world.

Murphiroth posted...

So why doesn't this apply to the phrase in question?

Why are you more up in arms about a phrase that could potentially refer to genocide than the ACTUAL genocide that's currently ongoing?

I think that Israel's actions should be protested, but as a Jewish person obviously it hits close to home seeing that people that consider themselves in the right can say things like this gladly, in colleges, etc, and have it not be shouted down. After October 7th, if a pro-israel protest was saying this kind of thing, it would be equally scary and horrific I imagine.

Sandalorn posted...

And the guy that uses a thousand year old insult to imply Muslims aren't even human is not worthy of saying anything...ever. You used that specific term on purpose.

That literally never crossed my mind in the slightest. I didn't even know what you meant. I didn't even know that was a term. Hence why I asked you to elaborate. I call lots of shitty things various forms of animal shit.

AnsestralRecall posted...

Don't really care how it makes anyone feel when the Israelis are engaging in genocide. The only things that matter are ending their genocide and ousting the current colonial apartheid state from power.

Man, you guys are not even realizing the stuff you're saying....I have to imagine this is just extremist views and not what most people think.

Like people accuse me of going mask off and people keep saying really messed up things in this topic.

Do you realize what you are brushing off and its ok because Israel does bad things, so that makes this somehow ok to say?

I dont think its even what you mean, but consider what you are brushing off with "don't really care how it makes anyone feel"

Why is Jewish people the only minority that does not seemingly have their interests, safety, and feelings valued by the left?

HHH_is_the_game posted...

But to hear this not be quieted down with its association with Hamas and their rhetoric, it scares you about anti-semitic sentiment in America/the world.

It doesn't scare me because I'm not a disingenous fear mongerer

Smashingpmkns posted...

It doesn't scare me because I'm not a disingenous fear mongerer

If anything this topic has only made it more freaky to be honest. Like it's hard to call me disingenuous when people keep backing up my points with their arguments and proving how they feel about these issues. I mean how many people said "Hm, that's a good point, maybe we should think of a better phrase"

HHH_is_the_game posted...

After October 7th, if a pro-israel protest was saying this kind of thing, it would be equally scary and horrific I imagine.

LOL

HHH_is_the_game posted...

I think that Israel's actions should be protested, but as a Jewish person obviously it hits close to home seeing that people that consider themselves in the right can say things like this gladly, in colleges, etc, and have it not be shouted down. After October 7th, if a pro-israel protest was saying this kind of thing, it would be equally scary and horrific I imagine.

So you didn't answer my question, at all.

You said that phrases are more than their origins and can be co-opted. Why does this not apply to the phrase in question? It's been co-opted and become more than its origin it seems.

FunWithAFryPan posted...

LOL

Why is this funny....

Murphiroth posted...

So you didn't answer my question, at all.

You said that phrases are more than their origins and can be co-opted. Why does this not apply to the phrase in question? It's been co-opted and become more than its origin it seems.

I dont understand the question. Are you saying they are co-opting the phrase from Hamas?

I honestly would think it is obvious. If you can use any phrase in the world, why are you using the one associated with genocidal terrorist rhetoric instead of any other one?

The co-opting argument seems very....thin.

HHH_is_the_game posted...

Why is this funny....

Please tell me you were kidding.

Smashingpmkns posted...

I think the general meaning is that Palestinians are fighting for the day they can move freely and have agency from the river to the sea. This phrase is not a call for genocide, and to believe that it is says more about you than the people chanting the phrase.

This is the reality.

But TC and similar agitators will do everything they can to paint it as a "Hamas slogan"

HHH_is_the_game posted...

If anything this topic has only made it more freaky to be honest. Like it's hard to call me disingenuous when people keep backing up my points with their arguments and proving how they feel about these issues. I mean how many people said "Hm, that's a good point, maybe we should think of a better phrase"

Maybe because you're not making good points and essentially tone policing people in the face of a literal genocide going on is actually quite dumb.

HHH_is_the_game posted...

So what do you think Hamas means when they say this phrase?

And do you think genocide should be met with genocide? If the shoe was on the other foot would that be suddenly ok?

The phrase has been around longer than Hamas.

HHH_is_the_game posted...

I dont understand the question. Are you saying they are co-opting the phrase from Hamas?

I honestly would think it is obvious. If you can use any phrase in the world, why are you using the one associated with genocidal terrorist rhetoric instead of any other one?

The co-opting argument seems very....thin.

Bro I'm just spinning your own words back at you, weird how you can't handle that.

And again, the fact that you're way, way more concerned about the use of this phrase than the actual ongoing genocide is remarkably telling.

HHH_is_the_game posted...

Why is Jewish people the only minority that does not seemingly have their interests, safety, and feelings valued by the left?

Zionists feelings don't matter because they will never admit to any wrongdoing at the hands of Israel

Not all Jews are Zionists. Many are strongly opposed to the abhorrent behavior by the Israeli government.

The second you engage in whataboutism when the Israeli government is engaging in genocide you prove you cannot be trusted to engage in good faith.

NoMeLx22x posted...

This is the reality.

But TC and similar agitators will do everything they can to paint it as a "Hamas slogan"

Can you explain then, why people insist on chanting the phrase that is used this way by Hamas, and not any other slogan in the world? Like ok, sure, that is what it means, but if there is this confusion, why are they insisting on this phrase defiantly?

FunWithAFryPan posted...

Please tell me you were kidding.

No, the phrase was used by israel, in fact it originated there.

So you do think this is a fair thing to chant after October 7th ? No, of course not, it would be considered genocidal aggression.

Israel should not say it. Neither should the opposition.

With all this anger, violence, and genocidal intent, we cannot say this on either side without giving a HUGE amount of baggage

From the river to th sea, TC shall leave CE

HHH_is_the_game posted...

Can you explain then, why people insist on chanting the phrase that is used this way by Hamas, and not any other slogan in the world? Like ok, sure, that is what it means, but if there is this confusion, why are they insisting on this phrase defiantly?

"From the Jordan to the Mediterranean, Palestine will be free again" didn't catch on, unfortunately. Too many syllables.

HHH_is_the_game posted...

Can you explain then, why people insist on chanting the phrase that is used this way by Hamas, and not any other slogan in the world? Like ok, sure, that is what it means, but if there is this confusion, why are they insisting on this phrase defiantly?

Why are you so intent on associating with Hamas, when it clearly has been used by other people to mean what it means? The only reason people exclusively associate it with Hamas is because of dishonest actors like you. Witting or not, youre just doing Zionist war propaganda in defense of genocide. You want to pretend that your against the violence but you arent, you serve it.

HHH_is_the_game posted...

Can you explain then, why people insist on chanting the phrase that is used this way by Hamas, and not any other slogan in the world? Like ok, sure, that is what it means, but if there is this confusion, why are they insisting on this phrase defiantly?

Because they're not going to let a shitty group also using the phrase get in the way of their intentions. Which is a free fucking Palestine.

HHH_is_the_game posted...

My point is, Israel committing a genocide does not mean that you should use phrases that make Jewish people feel like you are cheering for THEIR genocide in response.

If you feel like that's what they're doing, it's because you've been lied to about what "From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free" means. That's all there is to it.

HHH_is_the_game posted...

Anti-semitic violence is also a real threat too.

Yes it is. But chanting in support of freedom for the Palestinian people is neither antisemitic nor violent.

HHH_is_the_game posted...

Why is Jewish people the only minority that does not seemingly have their interests, safety, and feelings valued by the left?

"Seemingly" is the operative word here. The reason it seems that way to you is that, again, you've been lied to about whose safety the left (barring a tiny and uninfluential fringe of them) values.

HHH_is_the_game posted...

Can you explain then, why people insist on chanting the phrase that is used this way by Hamas, and not any other slogan in the world? Like ok, sure, that is what it means, but if there is this confusion, why are they insisting on this phrase defiantly?

Have you ever been to one of these protests? Or even watched videos of one? They chant so many other slogans in addition to this one. Ceasefire now, Free Palestine, No Justice, No Peace, etc.

If you search online, you'll see pro-Israel groups making the same arguments that each and every one of these phrases is identical to knowing calls for genocide and cannot be understood any other way. Even Free Palestine. Because it's not actually about any specific language, it's about the underlying political position. The most vehemently pro-Israel people are heavily invested in poising the well on ANY language used to express desire for Palestinian freedom. They want it to be impossible to express that idea without it being considered antisemitic. They generate the "confusion" then use the "confusion" to say the idea shouldn't be expressed. Some others end up doing the same thing out of fear and paranoia.

Right wingers do this all the time and this is no different. They themselves make something "controversial" and then say that controversial thing is radioactive and should be banned from public life/discussion. They did it with BLM, they do it with LGBT people, and this is another version of that.

I wonder if people have the same opinion regarding "intifada".

As I mentioned in an earlier post, it obviously means different things to different people. Would that be a phrase that people think Israeli's shouldn't be overly defensive about?

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/400-current-events/80759947/980187293

I will withdraw from the conversation at this point.

No, it isn't some conspiracy theory. Hamas uses the phrase in their charter multiple times and we know what they want and what they mean.

If the right-wing was making these same arguments, the left would be absolutely incensed. They take them to task constantly for their use of language. Right-wingers insisting "No, no, we know the KKK used this phrase, but we're not using it for THAT reason, it doesn't mean that when WE say it" and refusing to change it? The left would eat them alive. They would ask why they choose a phrase the KKK loves when they could choose any other phrase, and they wouldn't care about their arguments as to why they did it.

But people don't see that they are now doing the same thing.....

But it is obvious that the discussion isn't actually going anywhere. So I will end it now.

The discussion might actually go somewhere if you actually had any interest in a discussion but it's pretty clear you don't.

_____Cait posted...

Why do conservatives hate jews but love israel

Because they really only care about selling killing devices.

That's it, that's you need to know.

HHH_is_the_game posted...

I will withdraw from the conversation at this point.

No, it isn't some conspiracy theory. Hamas uses the phrase in their charter multiple times and we know what they want and what they mean.

If the right-wing was making these same arguments, the left would be absolutely incensed. They take them to task constantly for their use of language. Right-wingers insisting "No, no, we know the KKK used this phrase, but we're not using it for THAT reason, it doesn't mean that when WE say it" and refusing to change it? The left would eat them alive. They would ask why they choose a phrase the KKK loves when they could choose any other phrase, and they wouldn't care about their arguments as to why they did it.

But people don't see that they are now doing the same thing.....

But it is obvious that the discussion isn't actually going anywhere. So I will end it now.

You are the right wing.

If anyone is doing the heavy lifting right now for anti-Semitism, its the genocide denying Zionists like you. You think your rhetoric is going to discourage antisemitism? A new antisemite is born every day theres a genocidal apartheid regime blasting innocent civilians in their homes and on their streets. Israel is every bit as evil as Nazi Germany, the only difference is one of scale.

FunWithAFryPan posted...

You are the right wing.

If anyone is doing the heavy lifting right now for anti-Semitism, its the genocide denying Zionists like you. You think your rhetoric is going to discourage antisemitism? A new antisemite is born every day theres a genocidal apartheid regime blasting innocent civilians in their homes and on their streets. Israel is every bit as evil as Nazi Germany, the only difference is one of scale.

jesus......

SiO4 posted...

Because they really only care about selling killing devices.

That's it, that's you need to know.

It actually has more to do with controlling the Evangelical base who wants it to fulfill some end times prophesies related to the rapture happening.

The boosting the military industrial complex is just an added bonus.

HHH_is_the_game posted...

jesus......

The truth hurts. Re-examine your life choices.

I'm Jewish and I'm not scared because I'm not in Israel.

HHH_is_the_game posted...

I will withdraw from the conversation at this point.

And we've come full circle.

Amazing how being upset about antisemitism means people will accuse you of supporting what Israel is doing. Remember when we were concerned about Islamophobia after 9/11, because it could lead to our fellow citizens being harmed; and we didn't accuse people of supporting terrorism just because they feared Islamophobia? Allegedly liberal antisemites sure have different values when Jew is involved. Yall are some straight up Tucker Carlsons when it comes to one specific form of bigotry.

masterbarf posted...

Amazing how being upset about antisemitism

TC isn't upset about antisemitism. They're upset about something they wrongly think is antisemitic.

MrToothHasYou posted...

Last time I posted even the first half of the phrase, I caught a 3 month Purgatory trip. The moderation staff may have lightened up in the context of the current genocide thats ongoing, but I wouldnt risk it, assuming you dont want to lose access to CE. Just a heads up.

This entire topic is just bait to try and get Palestine supporters kicked off the board permanently. Engaging with it is pointless.

If they're gonna purg me with a clean history for something that dumb I don't wanna be here anyway