Current Events > "There are no atheists in foxholes"

(+) Yeah! (+)

you guys ever heard this famous saying? What do you personally think of it though?

I can believe it. When was the last time an American soldier had to fight from a fox hole though?

I don't even know what it is supposed to insinuate. Probably something asinine, no doubt.

I think its true to some extent, that when faced with senseless, overwhelming violence and trauma such as is experienced during war, the human mind can have a tendency to search for some kind of greater meaning as a kind of coping mechanism.

I dont think it has any validity as an argument in favor of any particular deity or religion, however. Just because we tend to search for meaning in things does not mean that any such meaning is actually there.

Xatrion posted...

I don't even know what it is supposed to insinuate. Probably something asinine, no doubt.

When youre forced to fight in a war in a fox hole, you tend to put your hopes that God exists and will protect you and your friends.

Atheists don't get involved in wars between religions to begin with?

A cornered fox is more dangerous than a jackal!

Smug saying from the kind of person who thinks it's a gotcha if they hear an atheist say the extremely common phrase, "Oh God!",

It has as much wisdom as thinking Brits literally believed in the Roman god Jupiter when they said "By Jove!" back in the day.

fan357 posted...

A cornered fox is more dangerous than a jackal!

good one!

Xatrion posted...

I don't even know what it is supposed to insinuate. Probably something asinine, no doubt.

Basicly that when your scared you start praying. Obviously not true for everyone.

Xatrion posted...

I don't even know what it is supposed to insinuate. Probably something asinine, no doubt.

It's just another lazy way religious people try to guilt people into thinking their version of religion is the correct one, by insinuating that atheists don't have strong convictions and will immediately turn to their version of god when faced with hardship.

I think it's false.

I always thought of it more as when somebody who isnt religious finds themselves in an overwhelming, dire situation to suddenly start hoping there is a god that will save them or someone else. Like the oh man, just get me out of this one, etc. It seems like an instinctual reaction for many and doesnt necessarily mean they have suddenly found god or a higher power. I try not to read too much into it other than a hope for survival.

foxhole prayer, jackpot god, and so forth.

MasterBlaster posted...

I always thought of it more as when somebody who isnt religious finds themselves in an overwhelming, dire situation to suddenly start hoping there is a god that will save them or someone else. Like the oh man, just get me out of this one, etc. It seems like an instinctual reaction for many and doesnt necessarily mean they have suddenly found god or a higher power. I try not to read too much into it other than a hope for survival.

foxhole prayer, jackpot god, and so forth.

Yeah good pt, jackpot, god. Do many powerball winners kinda turn religious though? Idk

Smallville posted...

Yeah good pt, jackpot, god. Do many powerball winners kinda turn religious though? Idk

Oh, Ive just heard the term jackpot and jackpot god used by older people to mean a real bind or situation to be in. A bad example would be No Country for Old Men when the taxi driver was like I dont want to get in no jackpot here . Admittedly I chose an odd phrase as reference

I overlooked the atheist part of the topic but I consider myself to be agnostic and remember certain situations like a bad car wreck where I was probably saying similar things to myself, the whole God if youre real help me out of this , but I think its a survival mechanism for many in desperation. I certainly didnt become religious, still agnostic. Im rambling now, interesting topic to me, I dont see it come up often.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


The saying isn't specifically about people going to war.

The "foxhole" thing is symbolic of a dire situation. As in, when people are in a no-win situation, they tend to look to a higher power in a last ditch effort to be saved.

Basically what MaserBlaster said in post #13.

I admittedly prayed a couple times when I was down & desperate. Of course I expected nothing and got nothing. Kind of shitty you have to hit rock bottom before god-belief starts to look appealing.

Yeah, the phrase represents the supposition that when facing mortality people become religious.
There is of course nothing to back this up ( but you will find numerous false accounts of such and such famous atheist that found god on their death bed).

Even when it does happen I don't think you could actually call it finding religion as it is based on a transactional relationship or hedging bets and the whole point of religion is faith without guarantee.

Xatrion posted...

I don't even know what it is supposed to insinuate. Probably something asinine, no doubt.

It means everyone will pray to some god, as if it will make them feel better about the possibility of death.

I have not heard this phrase in about 30 years, and had completely forgotten it existed. Maybe it is just not common where I live?

I know combat vets who called this saying especially bullshit.

Why do people only turn to god when things are bad but never celebrate him when things are going well? Seems kinda ass backwards. If I were god Id be pissed tbh.

so you only call me when you want something kinda mentality.

Smallville posted...

you guys ever heard this famous saying? What do you personally think of it though?

The concept of [the Christian] God is already so transactional that adding additional terms to our contract really isnt that different.

Although why anyone would spend any part of their final seconds updating their souls lease is beyond me.

SHRlKE posted...

Why do people only turn to god when things are bad but never celebrate him when things are going well? Seems kinda ass backwards. If I were god Id be pissed tbh.

so you only call me when you want something kinda mentality.

Some do. I really find it stupid how sport athletes praise God for their victory. What about the team that loses? And what a selfish thing to want God to do for you.

It's like all the internet nurses who claimed they witnessed Atheists begging for God's help on their deathbeds.

Nah, its just bunk from people who are too stupid to understand other peoples views and beliefs. I believe in God, so anyone who claims they dont secretly does and is just rejecting God. Pretty much the same mindset that leads them to believe being gay is a choice.

Nemu posted...

Nah, its just bunk from people who are too stupid to understand other peoples views and beliefs. I believe in God, so anyone who claims they dont secretly does and is just rejecting God. Pretty much the same mindset that leads them to believe being gay is a choice.

Typical fake Christians. Never practice what they preach.

It's funny because this cuts two ways:

1) You could say that the atheists aren't selfless or brave enough to risk their lives in war.

2) You could also say that atheists aren't stupid enough to risk their lives in pointless wars.

So - it depends on how you perceive war I guess.

incredibly smug self-righteous bullshit that only people who have no fucking clue about any worldview outside of their own say

ExtremeLuchador posted...

It's like all the internet nurses who claimed they witnessed Atheists begging for God's help on their deathbeds.

yeah i don't believe that ever actually happened. what i do know for a fact happened though is that plenty of anti-vaxxers begged to be given "the jab" on their deathbed long past the point where it was already too late.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


Clearly you have not heard about furry conventions.

I think the people who say this have never been near a foxhole and likely have romantic power fantasies about guns and war.

Only atheists are in foxholes. Anyone who believes in god trusts god to protect them. Anyone who doesn't, knows there's no invisible force to protect them and will inevitably hide in a foxhole when there's bullets flying.

Whiterun_Guard_ posted...

Some do. I really find it stupid how sport athletes praise God for their victory. What about the team that loses? And what a selfish thing to want God to do for you.

I know when I pray its more give me the strength etc rather than expecting some sort of divine intervention.

I think it sounds right. When death approaches a different perspective kicks in.

Well I'm 37 and I've been an atheist since like my early twenties and while I was in the army I was diagnosed with Hodgkin's lymphoma, I'll spare the details but there were a lot of complications and the process nearly killed me several times. I'm fine now but it's thanks to the awesome doctors I had and support from my family, and I never asked for any gods help because I don't believe in one so that'd be pretty silly wouldn't it?

I can confidently state that this saying is utter bullshit. Granted, taking cover behind and under a row of seats at a movie theater to avoid being shot isn't exactly a foxhole, but it's pretty fucking close. And yeah, my only thoughts were what I could do to survive. There were no prayers or reaching out to an invisible higher power.

RaptorLC posted...

I can confidently state that this saying is utter bullshit. Granted, taking cover behind and under a row of seats at a movie theater to avoid being shot isn't exactly a foxhole, but it's pretty fucking close. And yeah, my only thoughts were what I could do to survive. There were no prayers or reaching out to an invisible higher power.

what ? you were in that situation before?

I've heard it tons of times in my life. Usually followed by "that's not an argument against atheism, it's an argument against foxholes"

HotDogMayo posted...

Well I'm 37 and I've been an atheist since like my early twenties and while I was in the army I was diagnosed with Hodgkin's lymphoma, I'll spare the details but there were a lot of complications and the process nearly killed me several times. I'm fine now but it's thanks to the awesome doctors I had and support from my family, and I never asked for any gods help because I don't believe in one so that'd be pretty silly wouldn't it?

My oldest sister has non-Hodgkin's Lymphoma (and leukemia), and I know the pain you're going through. My sympathies.

https://youtu.be/pDWR5RkWRTY?si=fONXCO2fLsuY8wZ9

Smallville posted...

you guys ever heard this famous saying? What do you personally think of it though?

As a wise man once said: "Not an argument against atheists as much as an argument against foxholes"

GranTurismo posted...

what ? you were in that situation before?

He was in the Aurora theatre shooting IIRC.

TyVulpine posted...

My oldest sister has non-Hodgkin's Lymphoma (and leukemia), and I know the pain you're going through. My sympathies.

I appreciate that, thankfully I'm on the other side of it now, next year will be 10 years since my last treatment but yeah it's been a tough road. Sorry for your sister though, I hope she doesn't have the complications I had and that she sees the other side of this soon. Hope you're doing ok too man, they did a good job of being supportive for me but I know the whole ordeal was very hard for them so I'm sure it's not been an easy process for you either.

HotDogMayo posted...

I appreciate that, thankfully I'm on the other side of it now, next year will be 10 years since my last treatment but yeah it's been a tough road. Sorry for your sister though, I hope she doesn't have the complications I had and that she sees the other side of this soon. Hope you're doing ok too man, they did a good job of being supportive for me but I know the whole ordeal was very hard for them so I'm sure it's not been an easy process for you either.

Doctor gave her 5-7 years, and that was 3 years ago. She is really going downhill, coughing constantly, and looks 10+ years older than she is (53). It is tough but we're doing the best we can for her.

Meh. I've been under extreme duress many times now and convinced death was imminent. The furthest thing from my mind was god of any kind, despite a traumatic Christian upbringing. The phrase is silly and meaningless to me.

fan357 posted...

He was in the Aurora theatre shooting IIRC.

Wow

realnifty1 posted...

Clearly you have not heard about furry conventions.

*slow clap*
*standing ovation*