Current Events > What's Going On With Yasuke's Wikipedia Page?

(+) Yeah! (+)

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Yasuke&action=history

I've done wiki work before and I'm stunned to see this many revisions in just one day.

Must have to do with the new Assassin's Creed

Much of the edit warring seems to revolve around whether Yasuke was even a samurai or not.

Lot of racists suddenly aware of Yasuke are mad about Yasuke.

Some idiot started claiming Yasuke was a Samurai and is on some edit crusade but people keep reverting it because he was not.

Guide posted...

Lot of racists suddenly aware of Yasuke are mad about Yasuke.

Conclusion I came to as well.

That kind of thing isn't odd for something thrust into the spotlight all of a sudden. Often, it's just pure vandalism, though that seems to be a content dispute.

Racism

Vyrulisse posted...

Some idiot started claiming Yasuke was a Samurai and is on some edit crusade but people keep reverting it because he was not.

I have only ever read that he was samurai. Lots of other things in question about him, but not the samurai part.

Probably racists.

Guide posted...

I have only ever read that he was samurai. Lots of other things in question about him, but not the samurai part.

It's been debated among historians for a long time. Some claim he was, others claim he was merely a retainer to Nobunaga I believe. There's no real proof he was but also no concrete proof he wasn't.

Vyrulisse posted...

Some idiot started claiming Yasuke was a Samurai and is on some edit crusade but people keep reverting it because he was not.

He objectively was

Nemu posted...

though that seems to be a content dispute.

There is no dispute except for racists

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/who-was-yasuke-japans-first-black-samurai-180981416/

https://time.com/6039381/yasuke-black-samurai-true-story/

https://www.britannica.com/biography/Yasuke

https://www.tokyoweekender.com/art_and_culture/japanese-culture/yasuke-african-samurai-japan/

Here's a source for someone who says he's not:

https://wayofbushido.com/bushido-blog/f/the-bogus-story-of-yasuke-wokeness-revisionist-history

The article title:

The Bogus Story of Yasuke & "wokeness" revisionist history

I'm sure it's just chalk-full of facts and good-faith arguments.

Reminds me of this extremely weird edit war that was going on with silent hill's wiki. Some dude who cared very much about whether fictional characters was circumcised or not kept editing various silent hill's character's histories that they were most likely circumcised because *insert bat-shit insane theory here*.

But yeah just dudes wild'n out because of the assassin creed thing.....that, and they are freaking nuts.

Guide posted...

I have only ever read that he was samurai. Lots of other things in question about him, but not the samurai part.

I think that was mostly mainstream media being dumb, which lead to a cyclical feedback loop of people trying to add it to Wikipedia.

Vyrulisse posted...

Some idiot started claiming Yasuke was a Samurai and is on some edit crusade but people keep reverting it because he was not.

Vyrulisse posted...

It's been debated among historians for a long time. Some claim he was, others claim he was merely a retainer to Nobunaga I believe. There's no real proof he was but also no concrete proof he wasn't.

So which is it? First you decisively state that he was not then you state there's no concrete proof that he wasn't?

These two posts don't jive.

Mad-Dogg posted...

Reminds me of this extremely weird edit war that was going on with silent hill's wiki. Some dude who cared very much about whether fictional characters was circumcised or not kept editing various silent hill's character's histories that they were most likely circumcised because *insert bat-shit insane theory here*.

But yeah just dudes wild'n out because of the assassin creed thing.....that, and they are freaking nuts.

Oh my god I remember the Circumcision crusade. That was the most insane thing I've seen regarding Wiki edit wars.

Yasuke definitely existed, most likely served under Nobunaga in some capacity, and after that it gets murky as to whats true and whats myth.

Still a cool perspective to play as even if its not 100% historically accurate, but what assassins creed was ever fully accurate

Murphiroth posted...

So which is it? First you decisively state that he was not then you state there's no concrete proof that he wasn't?

These two posts don't jive.

I happen to believe he was not since it would be pretty known and recorded if he was made an actual Samurai.
Nice try at a gotcha though. I swear people here have real issues actually communicating, always searching for that moment.

Vyrulisse posted...

I happen to believe he was not since it would be pretty known and recorded if he was made an actual Samurai.
Nice try at a gotcha though. I swear people here have real issues actually communicating, always searching for that moment.

Questioning the discrepancies in your posts isn't really an attempt at a gotcha but stay mad I guess.

The same people who are okay with the Last Samurai are pissed about this.

Murphiroth posted...

So which is it? First you decisively state that he was not then you state there's no concrete proof that he wasn't?

These two posts don't jive.

Not that guy, but I genuinely dont think theres enough evidence to prove it either way. So for me, Im not gonna say he definitely wasnt, but also not gonna say he definitely was.

In terms of video games tho i do not care about accurate. let him be a samurai because that sounds cool to play as

ssb_yunglink2 posted...

Not that guy, but I genuinely dont think theres enough evidence to prove it either way. So for me, Im not gonna say he definitely wasnt, but also not gonna say he definitely was.

In terms of video games tho i do not care about accurate. let him be a samurai because that sounds cool to play as

Yeah ultimately it doesn't really matter for Assassin's Creed except to racists.

Kradek posted...

There is no dispute except for racists

I wouldn't jump the gun so quickly on this. As I said, only ever read that he was a samurai, but it is also entirely possible all I've ready was pop history rags. The history nerds who go deep into it are going to have a different perspective, and I'm not gonna call all of them racist... At least not yet.

The wiki war? Obvious racist bent. No dispute except for racists? I don't know about that.

Guide posted...

I wouldn't jump the gun so quickly on this. As I said, only ever read that he was a samurai, but it is also entirely possible all I've ready was pop history rags. The history nerds who go deep into it are going to have a different perspective, and I'm not gonna call all of them racist... At least not yet.

The wiki war? Obvious racist bent. No dispute except for racists? I don't know about that.

I posted 4 links earlier, 2 of which I would consider to be credible authorities on the subject. Time also does a good job on historical pieces.

Kradek posted...

I posted 4 links earlier, 2 of which I would consider to be credible authorities on the subject. Time also does a good job on historical pieces.

I mean to be fair the words historians assume or historians thought do a lot of heavy lifting in those articles.

We really just do not know a ton about Yasuke other than that he was an African man who worked under Nobunaga. As I said earlier, there just isnt a ton of hard evidence either way.

Theres also contention in what it means to be a samurai. One of the articles mentions Yasuke reaching the rank of samurai while another points out that samurai as a concept is loose. I wont object to be people saying he was a samurai, but I cant definitely say he was.

ssb_yunglink2 posted...

I mean to be fair the words historians assume or historians thought do a lot of heavy lifting in those articles.

We really just do not know a ton about Yasuke other than that he was an African man who worked under Nobunaga. As I said earlier, there just isnt a ton of hard evidence either way.

Theres also contention in what it means to be a samurai. One of the articles mentions Yasuke reaching the rank of samurai while another points out that samurai as a concept is loose. I wont object to be people saying he was a samurai, but I cant definitely say he was.

I suppose that's fair.

Ultimately, I still find it hard to believe it's anybody except racists upset over the new AC who are editing out him as being a samurai given that we already know they're griping about him merely existing.

Kradek posted...

I suppose that's fair.

Ultimately, I still find it hard to believe it's anybody except racists upset over the new AC who are editing out him as being a samurai given that we already know they're griping about him merely existing.

No i totally agree that people going out of their way to edit his wikipedia page most likely have underlying motives

Vyrulisse posted...

I happen to believe he was not since it would be pretty known and recorded if he was made an actual Samurai.
Nice try at a gotcha though. I swear people here have real issues actually communicating, always searching for that moment.

Saying that we dont know what Yasuke did is kind of a moot point when the new shogunate un-personed him and destroyed almost all records of his existence.

Likethat kind of makes it hard to find any set number of duels or battles or anything.

Heck, even with people like Musashi Miyamoto, we still dont have any actual evidence that he was in the battle of sekigahara. He claims he was, but theres no proof.

Vyrulisse posted...

Some idiot started claiming Yasuke was a Samurai and is on some edit crusade but people keep reverting it because he was not.

Adding racism to your trolling now I see.

Funkydog posted...

Adding racism to your trolling now I see.

Looking for another "gotcha!", I see?

/s

I find it hard to care about this.

I just think its funny that when Nioh, a Japanese-made game called Yasuke a samurai nobody cared about historical revisionism, but now that you're playing as him it suddenly matters.

Fact is it doesn't matter whether he really was a samurai or not, because in the realm of popular culture he is universally depicted as one. Even if that is a "misunderstanding" it really doesn't matter what a bunch of Americans and Europeans think constituted a samurai in 1580. This game or this understanding is not going to impact academia or proper research into the matter.

People are trying to change it into him being an actual Samurai, probably because of the recent Assassins Creed game. So basically now its seeped into historical Wikipedia articles.

Yasuke was in service of Nobunaga for only 15 months, and there are not many sources about him at all. We simply don't known what he did at all.

That's why people now have to "connect the dots", but the problem is when the speculation is onesided.

And then we have articles like that (about the death of Nobunaga at Hoono-Ji)

Lockley said. Yasuke was one of the 30 men with the feudal lord. [...] Theres no record, but tradition holds it that [Yasuke] was the one who took Nobunagas head to save it from the enemy. [...] Yasuke, therefore, by escaping with the head, could have been seen and has been seen as changing Japanese history,

And that's where I simply can't follow anymore.

We know that Yasuka was a retainer of Nobunaga for 15 months, and we know for sure that Nobunaga had many of them. We know that there were many loyal people to Nobunaga.

No one knows what happend do Nobunaga's body at all. It was never found, and we only know that Yasuke fought and surrendered at Niji Castle where Nobunaga's son was.

Yet with all this speculation, pop culture, and documents simple mentioning him, his article is now twices as long as the article of Akechi Mitsuhide, who was a lord and general for decades, and is the betrayer of Nobunaga.

Man, there is more historical documentation on Yasuke than there is Jesus Christ. There is SIX historical documentations that mention Yasuke by name and give details of his life. Which, for a guy in the 16th century that ultimately wasn't terribly important, was a lot. He was on Nobunaga's payroll and was given property like the rest of his samurai, he carried the swords of a samurai, he was explicitly mentioned to have fought for Nobunaga until the very end alongside the rest of Nobunaga's men and it's just farcical to suggest he wasn't a samurai.

"Yea sure he was worked the same job with the same salary as other samurai, dressed and armed himself like a samurai, worked for the most famous feudal lord in Japanese history, fought until the death of said lord along side other samurai, continued to fight after his death along other samurai... but he wasn't a samurai because reasons."

Karovorak posted...

his article is now twices as long as the article of Akechi Mitsuhide

Assuming you're talking about Wikipedia, this is not true. Yasuke's article is significantly shorter than Akechi. They only appear about the same on the scrollbar (Yasuke's still being shorter here) because the citations section on Yasuke's article is longer. Nix Yasuke's "In Popular Culture" section also and Akechi's article's wordcount is dramatically bigger.

So, why did you lie about this?

bIuerain posted...

Assuming you're talking about Wikipedia, this is not true. Yasuke's article is significantly shorter than Akechi. They only appear about the same on the scrollbar (Yasuke's still being shorter here) because the citations section on Yasuke's article is longer. Nix Yasuke's "In Popular Culture" section also and Akechi's article's wordcount is dramatically bigger.

So, why did you lie about this?

I literally took the word count right out of wikipedia.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/f/ff6bb62e.jpg

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/7/774d8005.jpg

Back in Oda Nobunaga era, samurai/non-samurai boundary wasnt really fixed. As long as you could fight and the high ranking samurai warlord likes you, you could be promoted to samurai.
There are couple of documented farmer/merchants that rise into samurai with really high position.

It was only with Hideyoshi completely conquering Japan and ended the civil war that boundary between samurai and non-samurai really got fixed.
Samurai received certain privileges (i.e can own swords and muskets) and restriction (i.e banned from farming and commerce) that distinguished them from the rest of population.

https://twitter.com/DannyVegito/status/1791500484185858323

Karovorak posted...

I literally took the word count right out of wikipedia.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/f/ff6bb62e.jpg

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/7/774d8005.jpg

I checked myself using Word's wordcount and these are definitely not accurate. Like I said, Yasuke's article has about 1,500 words bloated on to it by the References section. I'll concede that it turns out that Yasuke's article is longer by about 500 words, but again, like I already said, cut out the In Popular Culture Section and it's less than Akechi's. They have about the same in historical content writing with an edge to Akechi, Yasuke is just in more fictional media that Wikipedia thinks is worth mentioning.

But you want to know who has a longer article than either of those guys combined? Surprise, it's William Adams. Do you have any opinions on why that is now?

bIuerain posted...

I checked myself using Word's wordcount and these are definitely not accurate. Like I said, Yasuke's article has about 1,500 words bloated on to it by the References section. I'll concede that it turns out that Yasuke's article is longer by about 500 words, but again, like I already said, cut out the In Popular Culture Section and it's less than Akechi's. They have about the same in historical content writing with an edge to Akechi, Yasuke is just in more fictional media that Wikipedia thinks is worth mentioning.

But you want to know who has a longer article than either of those guys combined? Surprise, it's William Adams. Do you have any opinions on why that is now?

This only applies for the English version of the articles, right?

Humble_Novice posted...

This only applies for the English version of the articles, right?

Yes.

Vyrulisse posted...

others claim he was merely a retainer to Nobunaga I believe.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/4/4523e54b.png

bIuerain posted...

I checked myself using Word's wordcount and these are definitely not accurate. Like I said, Yasuke's article has about 1,500 words bloated on to it by the References section. I'll concede that it turns out that Yasuke's article is longer by about 500 words, but again, like I already said, cut out the In Popular Culture Section and it's less than Akechi's. They have about the same in historical content writing with an edge to Akechi, Yasuke is just in more fictional media that Wikipedia thinks is worth mentioning.

But you want to know who has a longer article than either of those guys combined? Surprise, it's William Adams. Do you have any opinions on why that is now?

Yeah, go on, move some goalposts until you tried to gaslight me and accused me of lying and making stuff up.

I'm out of here, that's what I get for posting in non-funny topics.

Karovorak posted...

Yeah, go on, move some goalposts until you tried to gaslight me and accused me of lying and making stuff up.

I'm out of here, that's what I get for posting in non-funny topics.

You're the one that claimed that Yasuke's article is twice as long as Adechi, which is at best a misleading claim, at worst just a lie, because you're counting a mile-long references section.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/e/e56e5b86.jpg

You based your whole thing on a false premise... and then whined about gaslighting because someone called you on it lol.

Vyrulisse posted...

Some idiot started claiming Yasuke was a Samurai and is on some edit crusade but people keep reverting it because he was not.

The only people trying to claim he wasn't a "samurai" (by which Westerners mean Bushi) are Westerners. The Japanese Wikipedia has always listed him as a Bushi, included him in the list of foreign born Bushi, and Japanese media and history always treats him as a Bushi. This entire thing just shows what a joke Westerners trying to claim they're some bastion of racial tolerance compared to Japan are. They're literally inventing a false controversy and claiming it's for the sake of Japan because they can't handle that a black man was just allowed to become a Bushi (but have no problem with the Englishman, Dutchman, multiple Koreans, or Chinese that became Bushi during that time). That talk page even has some idiot using Google translate pretending to be Japanese. It's a complete joke.

Vyrulisse posted...

I happen to believe he was not since it would be pretty known and recorded if he was made an actual Samurai.
Nice try at a gotcha though. I swear people here have real issues actually communicating, always searching for that moment.

Samurai isn't an actual rank. It's a word Westerners use to commonly mean Bushi (as in a member of the Bushi class), which Yasuke was. Then they say dumb shit like "oh he was a retainer", which is a translation of , literally a member of the Bushi class. None of you speak Japanese or care about the culture, but you sure do love pretending so you can use it as a cudgel against a black man.

It sure is curious how passionate people are about not loosely throwing the term "samurai" around to describe all retainers in 1500s Japan right after an alt-history video game announces they'll let you play as a black samurai.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/6/62a7815d.jpg