Current Events > Germany has TOO MANY solar panels, pushing energy prices into the negative

(+) Yeah! (+)

https://markets.businessinsider.com/news/commodities/solar-panel-supply-german-electricity-prices-negative-renewable-demand-green-2024-5

Sunny days in Germany mean gray clouds for solar profitability as the nation's dive into renewables has left it with too much energy.
According to a note from SEB Research, in the past 10 days, solar producers have had to take an 87% price cut during production hours. In fact, when production peaks, prices have slid well below zero.
On average, the price received was 9.1 euros per megawatt-hour, significantly under the 70.6 euros paid during non-solar-power hours.
"This is what happens to power prices when the volume of unregulated power becomes equally big or bigger than demand: Prices collapse when unregulated power produces the most," the Swedish bank wrote on Tuesday.
Last year's record wave of solar installations are what's driving Germany's price "destruction" as inventory outpaces consumption. While total solar capacity topped 81.7 gigawatts by 2023's end, demand load only reached 52.2 gigawatts, noted SEB chief commodities analyst Bjarne Schieldrop.
The difference between the two actually widens even more in the summer, a season of peak production and lower demand.
This also means that consumers are not necessarily benefiting from the low prices, as they typically consume more energy in non-solar hours.
Unless new installations are spurred on by subsidies or power purchase agreements, oppressed profitability could eventually halt Germany's solar expansion, Schieldrop said.
Instead, focus is likely to move onto improvements that will make more use of the energy produced, such as investments in batteries and grid infrastructure.
"This will over time exhaust the availability of 'free power' and drive solar-hour-power-prices back up," Schieldrop wrote. "This again will then eventually open for renewed growth in solar power capacity growth."
The supply-demand imbalance is neither a new issue for Germany, nor is the country alone in experiencing it. The European market has raced to install solar capacity through last year, a move made urgent after Russia cut off its energy supplies to the continent.
A European green-energy-supply glut further extended by wind turbine and nuclear expansions has triggered previous instances of negative price dips.
In reality, this doesn't mean that consumers are reimbursed to use electricity, as they're not paying raw market price. Instead, rates are typically agreed on beforehand.

Energy generation should be a public utility paid for solely by the government and should be provided at cost or for free (via taxes) to the public.

in Capitalism you purposely destroy something so you can continue making a profit rather than just give it to everyone who needs it even if you 100% can do that easily

or that is to say you make sure there is people who go without, so people pay to not

Imagine having this problem

focus is likely to move onto improvements that will make more use of the energy produced, such as investments in batteries and grid infrastructure

Yea no fucking shit. So do it and stop bitching about not being able to price gouge

wackyteen posted...

Energy generation should be a public utility paid for solely by the government and should be provided at cost or for free (via taxes) to the public.

actually i think they should take a page out of the military housing for electricity if it was a public utility. for example, if you use $50-$100 of electricity a month, the cost to the user is zero. if you use more, you pay the difference. if you use less, you get money back. granted, it's because living in military housing takes your entire housing allowance which is usually higher than what it costs off base, so not sure how they could correctly do that.

We need this setup in Texas

CableZL posted...

We need this setup in Texas

big oil wouldn't allow that

Imagine bitching that you made power free, and then thinking u have a problem.

Robot2600 posted...

Imagine bitching that you made power free, and then thinking u have a problem.

the shareholders are mad

Man, greed sure does have a way of making a person sound like a Saturday morning cartoon villain. Imagine being upset about the idea of excess energy production.

Gobstoppers12 posted...

Man, greed sure does have a way of making a person sound like a Saturday morning cartoon villain. Imagine being upset about the idea of excess energy production.

The other day some dude showed on reddit apples their farm threw out because they had too many and every order was filled.
It was like thousands and thousands, was crazy. They deleted the pic unfortunately.

Someone posted this though:

The works of the roots of the vines, of the trees, must be destroyed to keep up the price, and this is the saddest, bitterest thing of all.
Carloads of oranges dumped on the ground. The people came for miles to take the fruit, but this could not be. How would they buy oranges at twenty cents a dozen if they could drive out and pick them up?
And men with hoses squirt kerosene on the oranges, and they are angry at the crime, angry at the people who have come to take the fruit. A million people hungry, needing the fruit- and kerosene sprayed over the golden mountains.
And the smell of rot fills the country. Burn coffee for fuel in the ships. Burn corn to keep warm, it makes a hot fire. Dump potatoes in the rivers and place guards along the banks to keep the hungry people from fishing them out. Slaughter the pigs and bury them, and let the putrescence drip down into the earth.
There is a crime here that goes beyond denunciation. There is a sorrow here that weeping cannot symbolize. There is a failure here that topples all our success.
The fertile earth, the straight tree rows, the sturdy trunks, and the ripe fruit.
And children dying of pellagra must die because a profit cannot be taken from an orange.
And coroners must fill in the certificate- died of malnutrition- because the food must rot, must be forced to rot. The people come with nets to fish for potatoes in the river, and the guards hold them back; they come in rattling cars to get the dumped oranges, but the kerosene is sprayed.
And they stand still and watch the potatoes float by, listen to the screaming pigs being killed in a ditch and covered with quick-lime, watch the mountains of oranges slop down to a putrefying ooze; and in the eyes of the people there is the failure; and in the eyes of the hungry there is a growing wrath. In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage.
John Steinbeck, The Grapes of Wrath

CableZL posted...

We need this setup in Texas

Hahahahaha with fascist Republicans

I'm lost, is the article saying it's a bad thing to have too much renewable energy? Or is this a 'woe is me, shed a tear for big corporate company losing money' type of thing that WSJ tries to push weekly.

Huh! I never knew The Grapes of Wrath was written in 2024.

ClayGuida posted...

I'm lost, is the article saying it's a bad thing to have too much renewable energy? Or is this a 'woe is me, shed a tear for big corporate company losing money' type of thing that WSJ tries to push weekly.

The second one, 100000%

Robot2600 posted...

Huh! I never knew The Grapes of Wrath was written in 2024.

yea Steinbeck is a prolific redditor

All this is going to do is drain the sun faster!

I hope Sweden sees a price cut as well, seeing how the Germans high demand the last two winters helped raising our prices as well.

Sounds like they need more batteries

CableZL posted...

We need this setup in Texas

Texas has been making huge gains in solar and wind and battery. I believe they even did more solar than California last year. I'm excited for them for the next few years. The state has the land and makes it easy to build stuff.

emblem-man posted...

Sounds like they need more batteries

Texas has been making huge gains in solar and wind and battery. I believe they even did more solar than California last year. I'm excited for them for the next few years. The state has the land and makes it easy to build stuff.

All I remember from Texas is their moron governor blaming wind turbines for their power grid failures.

Texas with a Dem Governor and Dem legislation could actually fix so many things. But that can be said for a lot of states.

ClayGuida posted...

I'm lost, is the article saying it's a bad thing to have too much renewable energy? Or is this a 'woe is me, shed a tear for big corporate company losing money' type of thing that WSJ tries to push weekly.

My vague understanding is that if customers are paying the minimum price and there is no additional price being passed on to consumers, there won't be money to investment in further solar panels/green energy (least without government intervention)

ClayGuida posted...

All I remember from Texas is their moron governor blaming wind turbines for their power grid failures.

Texas with a Dem Governor and Dem legislation could actually fix so many things. But that can be said for a lot of states.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/c/c96ef21d.jpg

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/1/173fe3bc.jpg

Taken together, Texas got 47% of its electricity from zero-carbon solar, wind and nuclear in the first three months of 2024. Those resources delivered 40% of Texas generation for all of 2023.

https://www.canarymedia.com/articles/solar/texas-got-more-electricity-from-solar-than-coal-last-month

Natural gas is still a high percentage of use but clean energy is booming in Texas.

Maybe they could use all that energy and electricity to power more street lamps at night especially on those long countryside highways because it's ridiculous to expect me to be able to drive safely with just cat's eyes and my car's puny headlights.

wackyteen posted...

My vague understanding is that if customers are paying the minimum price and there is no additional price being passed on to consumers, there won't be money to investment in further solar panels/green energy (least without government intervention)

Yes. The problem is that with everyone producing more energy than they consume, the power companies wont have money should panels or grid systems need to be repaired/replaced/upgraded.

Itll then just make things more expensive once it swing back out of the consumers favor.

Thats at least my understanding. I could be wrong though

And yet they had no problems putting the money in their own pockets when they were overcharging.