Board 8 > Politics Containment Topic 447: 2016-2, Electric Boogaloo

(+) Yeah! (+)

Trump about to Pardon a bunch of J6ers but Hunter Biden takes is why i just dont give a shit about this.

Trump's pardons are also bad (worse really) and should be called out as such.

If a dude who was obsessed with imprisoning my son was about to become the FBI Director, I'd pardon him even if he had done absolutely nothing if I could!

kevwaffles posted...

If a dude who was obsessed with imprisoning my son was about to become the FBI Director, I'd pardon him even if he had done absolutely nothing if I could!

I do have to say, it's actually very funny that he was like "nah, this pardon's not for the charges, I'm pardoning him for ANYTHING since 2014".

Also while I'm still morally opposed to it, you're not going to see me complain anymore, after seeing the absolute most annoying people in the world crying about it.

Nate Silver literally saying it's the reason he'll never vote Democrat again had me actually laughing out loud, lmao.

You guys are so easily manipulated

politics and the political discourse in this country are broken on a fundamental level, and it will take either sheer dumb luck or something world changing to shift it in a positive direction

I'm still against it! I think the morally correct position is to abolish the process, I just cope by finding annoying people getting mad funny.

kevwaffles posted...

If a dude who was obsessed with imprisoning my son was about to become the FBI Director, I'd pardon him even if he had done absolutely nothing if I could!

You know what, that is a point I had not considered. Definitely makes it more understandable he would feel the need to do it, especially as a blanket pardon.

I can't find it now but there was a hilarious onion-style video I saw earlier stating how Biden accidentally pardons Hunter when he meant to pardon the Thanksgiving turkey. It was hilarious.

ChaosTonyV4 posted...

I'm still against it! I think the morally correct position is to abolish the process, I just cope by finding annoying people getting mad funny.

here's some cope i've been happy to make use of: maybe the pardon (and various other dem failures) will radicalize some libs further left

I found the worst take on the pardon

https://twitter.com/mkraju/status/1863710512833314845

I expect nothing lower than that for Manchin

HanOfTheNekos posted...

Stop there.

If you ever type those words, please realize nobody is going to care about a single thing you're saying and you are adding nothing to the conversation. Nobody gives a flying shit about the videos you watch or the fucking YouTube commenters on them.

Stop parroting what you watch elsewhere and actually read what people say in the topic for a change.

How about you not assume that not every YT commenter is stupid when its clear most of the country didnt give a toss about Trumps legal problems.

It's a self selection issue, lms. Even if we grant you that not all YouTube commentors are stupid, they're still the type of people willing to comment on a political video. And those types of people are having very different conversations than the ones that we're trying to have here. I think most b8ers are interested in talking to people, not at people about what other people said (some exceptions apply).

Okay thats actually fair. But in hindsight Trumps felony conviction feels so comparatively roundabout it was unlikely to change the mind of anyone who didnt already hate him - given it was only allowed to go through because his attorney used campaign finances as hush money payments and had already been convicted.

It probably also doesnt help that Trump appeared on SIGNIFICANTLY more podcasts aimed at young voters than Harris did. This election in hindsight seems like such a massive failure on the part of the Democratic Party its a wonder Harris didnt do even worse and I genuinely feel bad for her.

Btw how would you guys rank the US Presidents from Clinton onward in terms of foreign policy? From best to worst I go Obama, Clinton, Trump, Biden, Bush

When a wannabe dictator is coming into power, it is correct to condemn any authoritarian acts regardless of who does it. There's no such thing as "balance". The goal is just to shift the overton window away for authoritarianism as much as possible.

So South Korea has declared martial law

What the

foolm0r0n posted...

When a wannabe dictator is coming into power, it is correct to condemn any authoritarian acts regardless of who does it. There's no such thing as "balance". The goal is just to shift the overton window away for authoritarianism as much as possible.

Yeah I mean regardless of Trump definitely going to do authoritarian shit, I think its pretty obvious this pardon will push him to go even further.

So it seems South Koreas right-wing President couldnt get a budget through due to the opposition having a majority in the parliament and was likely to be impeached soon, so he just went for the power grab. Pretty shameful.

That opposition has apparently had some favorable opinions towards Russia and North Korea in the past, so it makes sense why he would use that excuse.

LinkMarioSamus posted...

Okay thats actually fair. But in hindsight

Nope, stop there.

Everything that follows "Okay that's actually fair" is unrelated to the post you are responding to. Let alone, we can tell that this is something you read/heard elsewhere and are just repeating here as your way to have something to say.

But nobody is talking about hindsight or Trump appearing on podcasts. Nobody cares about podcasts. The election is almost a month old - we've already discussed why Harris has lost and have mostly moved on. You bringing up all this stuff when it's not relevant to the current conversation is just non-sequitur after non-sequitur.

Look at what people are actually talking about before you post. That's the conversation being had.

It's funny how mild US politics is compared to the world (and has been since 2021), even considering the whole insurrectionist pedophile thing. The world is just insane right now and we are so narrowly focused on ourselves we think we're an outlier.

The whole world is trending towards facism

LightningStrikes posted...

So it seems South Koreas right-wing President couldnt get a budget through due to the opposition having a majority in the parliament and was likely to be impeached soon, so he just went for the power grab. Pretty shameful.

South Korea's parliament voted 190-0 to lift martial law. So it was a power grab without actually grabbing the power.

I certainly dont agree with either foolmo or PerfectChaos there. There are both places crazier (eg Romania) and places milder (eg Ireland) than the US, it is just hard to tell because the US takes so much of the focus. Overall my assessment of the US is that it faced the same wave of governments getting ousted everywhere else did and was simply unlucky enough that the opposition leader was Donald Trump. Also that executive presidencies shouldnt exist but that applies for everywhere that has one too.

The world is not in my view trending towards fascism, or rather not all of it. There are lots of places where the far-right has not performed or underperformed. I mean look at Ireland, the far-right and anti-immigrant right were making a lot of noise in the run up to this election and they got zero seats. The fascist independent candidate backed by Elon Musk got 1% of the vote. The milquetoast centrist main governing parties were returned and the status quo will continue.

What is happening is that incumbents everywhere are taking a beating due to the economy so if the government is left the electorate goes right and vice versa. For instance, Poland just got rid of their far-right government. To keep with the Ireland example, even that government didnt escape it fully as they did still lose about 4.5% in voteshare almost entirely from the minor coalition partner Green party. The Greens got an absolute shellacking, losing all but one seat.

Perhaps the best illustration that its an anti-incumbency thing is a different I_eland that just had an election, Iceland. They had a three-way coalition of the left, right, and centre. All three saw heavy losses and the gains went to three different parties of the left, right, and centre.

Which, to be crystal clear, is not me saying oh its going to be fine, actually this just shows how fragile things are and how easily fascists can take power if the conditions are right. Change is in the air everywhere. What exactly that means depends on where you are.

htaeD posted...

So South Korea has declared martial law

this was quite the thing to see 2 days before I'm supposed to go to South Korea

https://bsky.app/profile/did:plc:7knftcimdqusmixgonfjnl3s/post/3lcg44qeuyk24

The root problem is most likely increased stratification of society over the last 50 years, with the rich pulling away from the middle class and the middle class pulling away from the poor. The percentage of people in the poor group has gone up and is a sizable majority these days, while all the candidates for high office come from the middle class or rich. So the poor will lurch from voting with one party to another, searching for someone who will help them.

The milquetoast centrist parties are in a long term downward spiral, because their economic policies are bad for the poor.

red_sox_777 posted...

The root problem is most likely increased stratification of society over the last 50 years, with the rich pulling away from the middle class and the middle class pulling away from the poor. The percentage of people in the poor group has gone up and is a sizable majority these days, while all the candidates for high office come from the middle class or rich. So the poor will lurch from voting with one party to another, searching for someone who will help them.

The milquetoast centrist parties are in a long term downward spiral, because their economic policies are bad for the poor.

Thats not the root problem. The root problem is that about sixty years ago, a very important and necessary set of policies was passed in Congress, and in the wake of that, we saw the strongest surge of Republican electoral success in generations. Thats the period that gave us Reaganism and the start of the fifty year period you describe of increasing wealth disparity in this country.

Thats the hurdle that we as a nation struggle to overcome. First off, there are obviously a lot of people in this country that are more than happy with the status quo as it is. But the unfortunate reality is that for the people who DONT benefit from the status quo and WANT change to improve their lives, there is a real trend of voting to maintain the status quo for spiteful reasons. Make an amorphous campaign promise for change? Theyre all for it. Make a specific policy that will help people? Itll raise taxes and the WRONG people will get something they dont deserve. And its same thing every time; easily tank any sort of progressive policy by getting voters to turn against an out-group who theyre convinced dont deserve to benefit.

Until the American people stop this bullshit of swapping back and forth between parties in the hope of changewhile refusing outright to go against the racist fundamentals that began in the 70s and 80sthe status quo will not change and the wealth gap is just going to continue to widen.

htaeD posted...

So South Korea has declared martial law

Damn didn't know they were playing mercs 5

Espeon posted...

The root problem is that about sixty years ago, a very important and necessary set of policies was passed in Congress, and in the wake of that, we saw the strongest surge of Republican electoral success in generations.

What were those policies?

MZero posted...

this was quite the thing to see 2 days before I'm supposed to go to South Korea

Oh boy

Seanchan posted...

What were those policies?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_Rights_Act_of_1964

Seanchan posted...

What were those policies?

The Civil and Voting Rights Acts. And suddenly a really devoted base flocked to the GOP, while any progressive policy floated by the Dems became tainted by the easy messaging of you dont want YOUR tax dollars to pay for someone undeserving *winkwink* to get free stuff they dont deserve, do you?

Go back to the progressive golden era of the FDR years, and all of his policies (welfare, Medicare, social security) came with an asterisk that certain people were excluded from benefitting. The second that legal discrimination ended, you start to see an influx of people willingly going along with policies that deny them aid or ACTIVELY hurt them, because ethnic minorities (who are demonized in our society so that even those beyond overt racists have their views negatively tinged) might also have their lives improved.

Look at the case studies of towns closing down public pools rather than integrating them, which only ACTIVELY hurt white residents, but non-white residents didnt benefit, so the people accepted it.

Just to cap this post, I want to state very clearly: we should not be pushing for more racism and exclusionary policies. Thats morally bankrupt. But there needs to be an acknowledgment that the American are super fucking racist, even if theyre not outwardly flaunting it, and thats the uphill battle that we face trying to fix the wealth gap with actively helpful progressive policies.

Espeon posted...

Until the American people stop this bullshit of swapping back and forth between parties in the hope of change

That's not exactly a problem. The pendulum always swings. If the end result over many years is we end up somewhere better, then the fact that it swung back 10 times in the process is not actually a big deal. It's only important to us because we're living in it.

The problem is when the whole pendulum system starts moving in the wrong direction. Depending on how Ds react to this election, that could definitely happen. But if they understand that ending wars and maintaining relatively sane finances actually helped them have a less-than-terrible loss, then the whole system might continue moving in the right direction.

Espeon posted...

Look at the case studies of towns closing down public pools rather than integrating them

My neighborhood park is being renovated and I learned the giant concrete block at the front of it was one of these pools

the declaration of martial law in south korea was withdrawn after members of the national assembly broke into parliament and voted to force the president to do so

Well that didnt last long, like 3 hours?

Well, that was weird.

phew, glad that's solved forever, wannabe dictators never come back after a badly failed coup

AriaOfBolo posted...

phew, glad that's solved forever, wannabe dictators never come back after a badly failed coup

he legitimately did /so/ badly that i can't see him coming back from it.

wildly unpopular leading his party to a landslide loss in april, was on the cusp of impeachment before the declaration, military seemingly dragged it's feet and put little effort into impeding the national assembly

you typically have to have some level of support somewhere downstream, whether it's popular or militarily to pull off what he tried to do and he extremely failed

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/4/479d7523.jpg

A good wannabe dictator would at least have had a partisan split in the martial law repeal

foolm0r0n posted...

A good wannabe dictator would at least have had a partisan split in the martial law repeal

You just have to stall a few days until your own party forgets they ever had a problem.

ivysnow posted...

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/4/479d7523.jpg

okay this cracked me

China bans rare earths to US. Thanks Biden.

That may be one of the oddest coup attempts I've ever read about. President tries to unilaterally declare martial law and every single MP present overturns it a couple hours later with minimal violence beyond a bunch of protesters. Didn't even know this happened til it was long over.