Current Events > Never give up is the dumbest thing i've ever heard

(+) Yeah! (+)

At some point we simply have to accept defeat. What is the point in fighting a battle you can't win? Inspire other people?? Come on BRO?? There is no hope, no future and no change.

TC doesn't believe in the indomitable human spirit

"Just be yourself!"

A wise man once said "You live for the fight if that's all that you got"

Very true. I mean it sucks but sometimes there are some things you just.. cant do.

*grumbles in never-having-beaten-the-perfect-run-in-Mario-Galaxy-2*

Hayame_Zero posted...

"Just be yourself!"

Haha yeah Im a living example of how this definitely doesnt always work (at least when it comes to romance)

Never give up. Never surrender.

rexcrk posted...

Haha yeah Im a living example of how this definitely doesnt always work (at least when it comes to romance)

Yeah, sometimes being yourself is the worst thing one can do.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/f/ffe67b0e.jpg

deathproof12 posted...

At some point we simply have to accept defeat. What is the point in fighting a battle you can't win? Inspire other people?? Come on BRO?? There is no hope, no future and no change.

I bet this guy hasn't even tried using the power of friendship and promises.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5-sfG8BV8wU

You can do anything you set your mind to

Row row fight the powah!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KxGRhd_iWuE

I gave up on myself a long time ago. At this point the only light in the tunnel is from the posters here who haven't quite given up on me yet. But even that just feels like they're dragging a corpse and hoping it can recover.

if you never give up your learn you were god all along and defeat all the villians before the manga ends

People like to conveniently ignore the fact that most revolutions are caused by dissatisfied members of the ruling class getting a majority to help them overthrow the current regime. You think the founding father's of the US were working class? So if you're just a normal dude you shouldn't throw yourself away on meaningless resistance. If a meaningful movement comes along feel free to join it, but a normal person can't overthrow the system.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/8/807bbd4a.jpg

It's called sunk cost fallacy

ssjevot posted...

People like to conveniently ignore the fact that most revolutions are caused by dissatisfied members of the ruling class getting a majority to help them overthrow the current regime. You think the founding father's of the US were working class? So if you're just a normal dude you shouldn't throw yourself away on meaningless resistance. If a meaningful movement comes along feel free to join it, but a normal person can't overthrow the system.

Stalin came from a super poor family--not that I'm advocating for anyone to be the next Stalin

BlueKat posted...

Stalin came from a super poor family--not that I'm advocating for anyone to be the next Stalin

Stalin didn't lead the revolution. He was literally a petty criminal who was used by Lennon as a way to fund his movement. He later seized power after he was put into a position to do so but Lenin (who recognized what a problem this was, but it was too late).

As someone who is generally on the pessimistic side, giving up is coward talk.

ssjevot posted...

Stalin didn't lead the revolution. He was literally a petty criminal who was used by Lennon as a way to fund his movement. He later seized power after he was put into a position to do so but Lennon (who recognized what a problem this was, but it was too late).

Yeah, he didn't lead the revolution, but he came from a super poor background and totally reshaped the nation and became literally one of the most powerful people in history

BlueKat posted...

Yeah, he didn't lead the revolution, but he came from a super poor background and totally reshaped the nation and became literally one of the most powerful people in history

Absolutely. And I advocate that people here should a join a movement if such a thing comes along. But the idea a poor person can start a movement is wrong. Tiananmen Square failed because although some powerful members of the party supported it at first, they later abandoned it and all the students were crushed. My wife's dad saw the writing on the wall and left before everything went to shit. You can call him a coward who gave up, but he's alive and doing well. If some meaningful revolutionary movement comes along in China he could support it now because he was smart enough to choose to live for another day then.

Kradek posted...

Yeah, sometimes being yourself is the worst thing one can do.

The key is to, alongside being yourself, constantly strive to improve yourself.

The Anti-Spiral likes this

ssjevot posted... Absolutely. And I advocate that people here should a join a movement if such a thing comes along. But the idea a poor person can start a movement is wrong. Tiananmen Square failed because although some powerful members of the party supported it at first, they later abandoned it and all the students were crushed. My wife's dad saw the writing on the wall and left before everything went to shit. You can call him a coward who gave up, but he's alive and doing well. If some meaningful revolutionary movement comes along in China he could support it now because he was smart enough to choose to live for another day then.

I feel for your wife--I also had family flee the Cultural Revolution. But that being said, I still got to disagree with you: even enslaved people (who are beyond poor) can lead revolutionary movements. For example, take the leaders of the Haitian Revolution, Jean-Franois Papillon, George Biassou and Jean-Jacques Dessalines. Now while I agree that wealth definitely makes a revolution much easier, it's not a necessary component.

SaikyoStyle posted...

Never give up. Never surrender.

Took way too long.

BlueKat posted...

For example, take the leaders of the Haitian Revolution, Jean-Franois Papillon, George Biassou and Jean-Jacques Dessalines. Now while I agree that wealth definitely makes a revolution much easier, it's not a necessary component.

My understanding is that they received significant backing from Spain, including military training with some even being former members of the Spanish military.

"Never give up without a fight" is my favorite inscription. Right after "Made In Earth Kingdom."

"Only give up as a last resort."

there, better now? lol

ZevLoveDOOM posted...

"Only give up as a last resort."

there, better now? lol

lmfao

ssjevot posted...

My understanding is that they received significant backing from Spain, including military training with some even being former members of the Spanish military.

The leaders were rebelling slaves and not former members of the Spanish military. And this is just one example. This actually happened quite a lot in South America and the Caribbean.

That's because you've never been out harvesting asiatic clams in -10C weather while the "Before my Body is Dry" instrumental from Kill La Kill plays in the background

deathproof12 posted...

What is the point in fighting a battle you can't win?

To annoy the other person, if they know they are gonna win they will only get more annoyed if you drag it out longer. Always go for max pettiness no matter what

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/c/c7e63519.jpg

What are we giving up?

Building some IKEA furniture? Sure, I can accept when I'm beat.

My identity as a trans woman? You're gonna have to kill me for that.

BlueKat posted...

The leaders were rebelling slaves and not former members of the Spanish military. And this is just one example. This actually happened quite a lot in South America and the Caribbean.

But the names you listed were all people with heavy backing from Spain:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georges_Biassou

In 1793, France declared war on Spain, a war which eventually manifested in Hispaniola. Spain granted freedom to the revolutionaries in exchange for their assistance in battling France in Santo Domingo. A military organisation called the Black Auxiliaries of Charles IV was formed for the rebel leaders. Members included Georges Biassou, Jean-Franois Papillon, Toussaint Louverture and other rebels. The Black Auxiliaries were provided with weapons, supplies, and salaries. Biassou ultimately received Spanish citizenship, gold medals, and letters of recognition and confidence from the Spanish Government.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean-Jacques_Dessalines

In 1791, along with thousands of other enslaved persons, Jean-Jacques Dessalines joined the slave rebellion of the northern plains led by Jean Franois Papillon and Georges Biassou. This rebellion was the first action of what would become the Haitian Revolution. Dessalines became a lieutenant in Papillon's army and followed him to Santo Domingo, occupying the eastern half of the island, where he enlisted to serve Spain's military forces against the French colony of Saint-Domingue.

I guess my point is that to overthrow a power sturcture, you generally need the backing of elements within that or another power structure. You cannot simply do it on your own. A modern example would be the total failure on the Hong Kong protests. Despite most of Hong Kong supporting it and massive protests it ended in the complete dismantling of democracy in Hong Kong and the arrests of protest leaders that even now gets extended to more and more minor members. The lack of any internal or external backing of elites with power meant that the protest couldn't accomplish anything despite popular support.

The current situation in the US is one where the opposition has nowhere near popular support (although it does actually enjoy more support among the upper class and especially billionaires). My advice to everyday normal people is to keep their head down and wait for an opportunity backed by the elite. Not to do something stupid and get yourself killed or imprisoned due to mere idealism (see Tiananmen or Hong Kong). There are plenty of wealhty and powerful individuals in opposition to Trump, and they will be the ones to create a meaningful resistance if such a thing comes about. A similar situation has emerged Ukraine. They are incapable of winning without external support and some of that is about to be cut off. They are beholden to the whims of the elite in two different power blocks.

I think many people allow themselves to fall into an is ought fallacy and believe a just world will emerge if you just keep doing the right thing regardless of actual circumstances. I argue for a more pragmatic approach.

ssjevot posted...

But the names you listed were all people with heavy backing from Spain:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georges_Biassou

In 1793, France declared war on Spain, a war which eventually manifested in Hispaniola. Spain granted freedom to the revolutionaries in exchange for their assistance in battling France in Santo Domingo. A military organisation called the Black Auxiliaries of Charles IV was formed for the rebel leaders. Members included Georges Biassou, Jean-Franois Papillon, Toussaint Louverture and other rebels. The Black Auxiliaries were provided with weapons, supplies, and salaries. Biassou ultimately received Spanish citizenship, gold medals, and letters of recognition and confidence from the Spanish Government.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean-Jacques_Dessalines

In 1791, along with thousands of other enslaved persons, Jean-Jacques Dessalines joined the slave rebellion of the northern plains led by Jean Franois Papillon and Georges Biassou. This rebellion was the first action of what would become the Haitian Revolution. Dessalines became a lieutenant in Papillon's army and followed him to Santo Domingo, occupying the eastern half of the island, where he enlisted to serve Spain's military forces against the French colony of Saint-Domingue.

I guess my point is that to overthrow a power sturcture, you generally need the backing of elements within that or another power structure. You cannot simply do it on your own. A modern example would be the total failure on the Hong Kong protests. Despite most of Hong Kong supporting it and massive protests it ended in the complete dismantling of democracy in Hong Kong and the arrests of protest leaders that even now gets extended to more and more minor members. The lack of any internal or external backing of elites with power meant that the protest couldn't accomplish anything despite popular support.

The current situation in the US is one where the opposition has nowhere near popular support (although it does actually enjoy more support among the upper class and especially billionaires). My advice to everyday normal people is to keep their head down and wait for an opportunity backed by the elite. Not to do something stupid and get yourself killed or imprisoned due to mere idealism (see Tiananmen or Hong Kong). There are plenty of wealhty and powerful individuals in opposition to Trump, and they will be the ones to create a meaningful resistance if such a thing comes about. A similar situation has emerged Ukraine. They are incapable of winning without external support and some of that is about to be cut off. They are beholden to the whims of the elite in two different power blocks.

I think many people allow themselves to fall into an is ought fallacy and believe a just world will emerge if you just keep doing the right thing regardless of actual circumstances. I argue for a more pragmatic approach.

I hear what you're saying, and while I agree with the concept of taking a pragmatic approach, I don't think these situations are that simple.

The Haitian Revolution didn't start with heavy backing from Spain nor did the leaders know that was going to be a thing. It started as a slave revolt in 1791 that was so successful that the French National Assembly offered them freedom in 1792. At that point, the revolutionaries controlled over a third of Saint-Domingue (Haiti) without any help from a larger power structure. Spain didn't start supporting the Haitian Revolution until 1793.

The Hong Kong protests were a strange situation. I was there during part of it. I believe Covid actually played a big part in its failure.

I'm definitely in no way advocating for a revolution. I also don't think revolutions are pragmatic. A lot of them come from a state of oppression and desperation. And even a failed revolution can have lasting effects that later change the entire dynamic of the power structure.

After all is said and done
You've never walked, you've never run
You're a winner
You got the moves, you know the streets
Break the rules, take the heat
You're nobody's fool
You're at your best when the goin' gets rough
You've been put to the test, but it's never enough

You never bend, you never break
You seem to know just what it takes
You're a fighter
It's in the blood, it's in the will
It's in the mighty hands of steel
When you're standin' your ground
And you never get hit when your back's to the wall
Gonna fight to the end and you're takin' it all

Never give up

Never surrender!!

John Cena is disappointed with you

I hate this thread

Never give up! Never surrender!

Damn the resonance cannons! Full speed ahead!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SJ2hJezvd2I