Current Events > Unity is a right wingers greatest strength

(+) Yeah! (+)

OmniNakago posted...

Unity? Eh, I think it's the appearance of unity. But most of that comes from Russian/Chinese bots.

So yeah, it emboldens them, but there aren't actual "people" behind most of those accounts.

Still kind of nutty, though.

Is it an appearance when they turn out to vote?

LightHawKnight posted...

Is it an appearance when they turn out to vote?

And let Trump do whatever he wants

Umbreon posted...

Out of curiosity Daremo, who did you vote for in the last few elections? It seems like you feel strongly about this issue. I'm curious what your stances are.

I voted for Harris. I actually follow the lesser evil doctrine, but I don't pretend it's a good thing. The least bad choice wins no hearts or minds, and that seems obvious to me.

The things that salt my scallions are people clinging to the failed strategy that you can haraung your way into votes, and the idea that everyone else is to blame for democrats failing to get their shit together.

These topics irk me like little else as they come off as willful ignorance and steadfast refusal to learn.

"We couldn't get the votes, but we don't need to change anything, you need to stop caring about whatever you care about and give us power for nothing!"

That's not how any of this has ever worked, why would you think it should now?

OmniNakago posted...

They'll go back into hiding after Trump falls off the planet. They unite under him. They will not unite under each other after he's gone.

I disagree.

As far as the topic, I'd slightly change the term to 'Propaganda'. The GOP/Right Wing Propaganda Machine is so insanely powerful, and effective.

THEY'RE LITERALLY THEIR NEIGHBORS' DOGS!
Guys that's silly...
*Votes for the party that is totally not eating their neighbors' dog*

LightHawKnight posted...

Is it an appearance when they turn out to vote?

If you think that was all legitimate, then sure. I'm not even going to bring up riggory, but democrats didn't threaten republicans from showing up to vote.

FolkenRawr posted...

I disagree.

As far as the topic, I'd slightly change the term to 'Propaganda'. The GOP/Right Wing Propaganda Machine is so insanely powerful, and effective.

THEY'RE LITERALLY THEIR NEIGHBORS' DOGS!
Guys that's silly...
*Votes for the party that is totally not eating their neighbors' dog*

I simply don't think they'll rally hard over anyone like this again. Eric Trump or Jr.? Vance? Musk? When he's gone, nobody is going to have this momentum. Most republican politicians hate each other.

the right will unite for a moment but they will stab each other in the back if they feel the one they are backing is not rightwing enough look at UK the split happened and now reform seems to taking their former tory voters away into their fold
the same happened with the gop they got taken over by the maga who purity tested everyone to ether vote their way or they won't vote for them cuz the old gop isn't hateful enough for them anymore

Heineken14 posted...

So, when you red herringed them into not doing enough in your eyes based off of 0 evidence you then cried about the tone of their response. A response, mind you, that YOU initiated with your condensation that you then got whiny about when replied to in turn.

Based off of your other posts after that, you seem super genuine with coherent opinions.

Just straight up not worth responding to. But I guess that's also my fault. For not being perfect enough.

It's your fault for demanding everyone else change while not being the change you want to see in the world.

OmniNakago posted...

If you think that was all legitimate, then sure. I'm not even going to bring up riggory, but democrats didn't threaten republicans from showing up to vote.

I simply don't think they'll rally hard over anyone like this again. Eric Trump or Jr.? Vance? Musk? When he's gone, nobody is going to have this momentum. Most republican politicians hate each other.

I mean I dont think its rigged that republican voters turned up to vote. I can see them tossing out democratic votes, but all speculation until there is an investigation. The brainwashed republicans will always vote, so it isnt an appearance.

Daremo posted...

It's your fault for demanding everyone else change while not being the change you want to see in the world.

What the fuck do you think I'm getting involved for? Stop disingenously projecting shit onto me. The ENTIRE FUCKING POINT of working within the democratic party is because I don't like the way they're doing shit.

the thing is right wingers make it abundantly fucking clear they also all fucking hate each other. like it isn't even fucking subtle.

there is just one quote I will always think about - right-wingers will, without fail, vote for a republican they fucking despise before they would any dem.

Daremo posted...

I voted for Harris. I actually follow the lesser evil doctrine, but I don't pretend it's a good thing. The least bad choice wins no hearts or minds, and that seems obvious to me.

I don't deny that "Lesser evil" isn't the most desirable outcome, but the fact that people have to be convinced to vote against their own destruction is... distressing to say the least.

Daremo posted...

These topics irk me like little else as they come off as willful ignorance and steadfast refusal to learn.

You realize these topics aren't made to recruit people right? It's like ranting on a group chat, you don't intend to win the hearts of millions. It's just ranting.

Daremo posted...

We couldn't get the votes, but we don't need to change anything, you need to stop caring about whatever you care about and give us power for nothing!"

That's not how any of this has ever worked, why would you think it should now?

It's never "Give us power for nothing". It's "Please stop the greater evil from destroying everything so we can get the things we all want".

And deeply stupid people responding "Yeah, but you're not perfect so why should I?".

Then complaining when the greater evil wins because they stepped aside and did nothing.

Those non voters holding out for a more progressive candidate are now finding out what happens when one candidate says they want to strip away rights, the other says they don't, and they stay home because of a flaw shared by both parties.

But at least when women no longer have the rights to their own body, the fencesitter can proudly shout that they... taught someone a lesson or something?

Rantman posted...

the thing is right wingers make it abundantly fucking clear they also all fucking hate each other. like it isn't even fucking subtle.

there is just one quote I will always think about - right-wingers will, without fail, vote for a republican they fucking despise before they would any dem.

They do be wearing the better Russian than Democrat shirts.

LightHawKnight posted...

I mean I dont think its rigged that republican voters turned up to vote. I can see them tossing out democratic votes, but all speculation until there is an investigation. The brainwashed republicans will always vote, so it isnt an appearance.

they will vote but the amount that came out for trump will drop out cuz unless someone like him appears to them they won't bother voting anymore if all they have is old gop which isn't good enough for them if nothing else if america does have elections in the future the party will split up like they did in the UK into two factions

Daremo posted...

It's your fault for demanding everyone else change while not being the change you want to see in the world.

What did you want different from the dems they refused to give?

Was it Gaza or many more things?

Unknown5uspect posted...

What the fuck do you think I'm getting involved for? Stop disingenly projecting shit onto me. The ENTIRE FUCKING POINT of working within the democratic party is because I don't like the way they're doing shit.

And yet you're wasting time here with me. Who are you on the phone with? What are you making happen? You say you're doing something, is that all you can do? If yo u feel mad and frustrated, what can you be channeling that energy into? What ever finger wiggles you're tmepted to make in response to me, make them to a congress person, a mayor, a state rep, somebody who needs to hear it more than I do.

Responding here will just tell me you aren't really serious.

gikos posted...

they will vote but the amount that came out for trump will drop out cuz unless someone like him appears to them they won't bother voting anymore if all they have is old gop which isn't good enough for them if nothing else if america does have elections in the future the party will split up like they did in the UK into two factions

People keep saying that, but it hasnt happened in any significant numbers.

Daremo posted...

And yet you're wasting time here with me. Who are you on the phone with? What are you making happen? You say you're doing something, is that all you can do? If yo u feel mad and frustrated, what can you be channeling that energy into? What ever finger wiggles you're tmepted to make in response to me, make them to a congress person, a mayor, a state rep, somebody who needs to hear it more than I do.

Responding here will just tell me you aren't really serious.

This wasn't typed up by a sincere person.

LightHawKnight posted...

I mean I dont think its rigged that republican voters turned up to vote. I can see them tossing out democratic votes, but all speculation until there is an investigation. The brainwashed republicans will always vote, so it isnt an appearance.

I think you're hung up on the word "appearance." I think I should have explained myself better, so my mistake. What my original point was:

A lot of the republican supporters you see online. In comments. On Xitter. On r/conservative.

Even Facebook. All of this affects older people, because they constantly see these opinions, and don't know any better--such as parents who can't tell if an image is AI-generated at a glance.

A lot of that is from Russian/Chinese bots.

Which is a problem. With bots, it gives the appearance that there are way more of them than there actually are. You certainly wont meet most of these people in real life, just "online."

But who knows. I'm day drinking, so I'd rather not argue too much.

Daremo posted...

And yet you're wasting time here with me. Who are you on the phone with?

Since you don't seem to understand reality. Little known fact, there are 7 days a week full of 24 hours each. People have time to do all kinds of crazy things in those hours!

I know it sounds slow, but I'm starting to realize most left wingers don't actually vote in the primaries like they claim to. If they did, we wouldn't keep getting conservative Democrats as winners. Either that, or the conservative Democrats are the ones that mostly show up, and the actual leftists can't agree to unite on a progressive candidate. Either way, it's a huge problem.

LightHawKnight posted...

People keep saying that, but it hasnt happened in any significant numbers.

? you mean america yeah we still don't know how will the turnout for the gop will be if there is a election after trump and most likely the gop know this so i can already see them doing dirty tactics to muddy the election process otherwise we already saw how the right splits once they let their hate boner get in their way like in the UK

Heineken14 posted...

Since you don't seem to understand reality. Little known fact, there are 7 days a week full of 24 hours each. People have time to do all kinds of crazy things in those hours!

No I apparently can't have the capacity to make change and do anything else or I'm not serious.

And people like this want to act like they can actually be reached.

nocturnal_traveler posted...

What will it take for left wingers to get their heads out of their own asses, and unite for the greater good?

*looks inside topic*
The heat death of the universe, evidently

Umbreon posted...

I don't deny that "Lesser evil" isn't the most desirable outcome, but the fact that people have to be convinced to vote against their own destruction is... distressing to say the least.

Have you met humans at all? Watch the documentary, "Don't Look Up" and get back to me.

You realize these topics aren't made to recruit people right? It's like ranting on a group chat, you don't intend to win the hearts of millions. It's just ranting.

It's ranting that has learned nothing. It's infuriating.

It's never "Give us power for nothing". It's "Please stop the greater evil from destroying everything so we can get the things we all want".

And deeply stupid people responding "Yeah, but you're not perfect so why should I?".

Then complaining when the greater evil wins because they stepped aside and did nothing.

Those non voters holding out for a more progressive candidate are now finding out what happens when one candidate says they want to strip away rights, the other says they don't, and they stay home because of a flaw shared by both parties.

But at least when women no longer have the rights to their own body, the fencesitter can proudly shout that they... taught someone a lesson or something?

It is not their job to save anyone, particularly the Democratic party. You can say, "take what you don't want because it's better than what you also don't want" and people will walk away. We have seen this. Arguing that they shouldn't is just flying in the face of demonstrated reality.

Unknown5uspect posted...

No I apparently can't have the capacity to make change and do anything else or I'm not serious.

And people like this want to act like they can actually be reached.

Why are you wasting your time on things like eating and sleeping when you could be spending that time becoming President yourself? /s

just so you guys know left wing voters are vastly sadly out numbers by swing voters so even if they all vote for a dem it's not them that hold the sway in your election but the EC which most of them don't pay attention to your politics and buy the age old snake oil lie that rich assholes like trump is good for the economy or watch fear mongering news of how immigrants are running around doing huge level of crimes unchecked or other hateful BS

Umbreon posted...

This wasn't typed up by a sincere person.

You have never met a more sincere person. That you dismiss the call to action is, frankly, heartbreaking.

Umbreon posted...

Why are you wasting your time on things like eating and sleeping when you could be spending that time becoming President yourself? /s

I feel like such an idiot working to take care of my family when I need to be calling mayors and protesting.

Daremo posted...

It's ranting that has learned nothing. It's infuriating.

Then leave. Show us how it's done. Why are you wasting time on this board?

Daremo posted...

It is not their job to save anyone

Then they can hang in silence. I don't want to hear anyone who didn't try to stop this complaining about the suffering that wasn't dire enough for them to stop.

People act like children. They think they can get everything. Their reward is to have nothing. Just like all the people who "didn't want to support a genocide" (Spoilers: If you pay taxes, you do even if you don't want to) by refusing to vote Harris.

And thus, supported the far worse genocide that Trump is doing right now instead. Instead of having Harris win and then demand a ceasefire day 1.

But it's not the voter's job to save anyone.

Including themselves, apparently.

Daremo posted...

You have never met a more sincere person. That you dismiss the call to action is, frankly, heartbreaking.

How did Harris fail you exactly?

WingsOfGood posted...

How did Harris fail you exactly?

She knows how to laugh and have a good time. /s

gikos posted...

just so you guys know left wing voters are vastly sadly out numbers by swing voters so even if they all vote for a dem it's not them that hold the sway in your election but the EC which most of them don't pay attention to your politics and buy the age old snake oil lie that rich assholes like trump is good for the economy or watch fear mongering news of how immigrants are running around doing huge level of crimes unchecked or other hateful BS

Also something liberals on this board EXTREMELY seem to not get? Leftists already pretty overwhelmingly vote Democrat as harm reduction. But people don't care, they just want somebody to blame and have decided to punch left. It's not helpful in the slightest but it is what it is.

Another thing I've noticed, is that Humans have a huge problem with self accountability. It's never MY fault. It's someone else's. The Democrats try to spread around blame (like it should... normally), and people are like "nuh-uh!" Meanwhile Republicans say, "you're right. It's not your fault. It's that guy over there!" And it allows them to keep denying accountability.

So what's the solution? Democrats need to let these fools live in their delusion, except in a way that doesn't actually hurt people. Go ahead and blame immigrants. Dems have the highest deportation rates anyways. It's not like they'd be lying about being tough in immigration. Also, blame rich people (especially rich people). Everybody hates them anyway, and only Republicans think they can do no wrong.

nocturnal_traveler posted...

I know it sounds slow, but I'm starting to realize most left wingers don't actually vote in the primaries like they claim to. If they did, we wouldn't keep getting conservative Democrats as winners. Either that, or the conservative Democrats are the ones that mostly show up, and the actual leftists can't agree to unite on a progressive candidate. Either way, it's a huge problem.

Because most "Democrats" are also lazy and won't vote. Of all my friends who proudly claim to be progressive not a single one voted. Why? They either forgot, or were too lazy.

The amount of people who sat out because Kamala wasn't liberal enough was marginal. The Trump effect was real. People gravely underestimated how huge that cult was and how loathed Biden is.

gikos posted...

just so you guys know left wing voters are vastly sadly out numbers by swing voters so even if they all vote for a dem it's not them that hold the sway in your election but the EC which most of them don't pay attention to your politics and buy the age old snake oil lie that rich assholes like trump is good for the economy or watch fear mongering news of how immigrants are running around doing huge level of crimes unchecked or other hateful BS

Enclave posted...

Also something liberals on this board EXTREMELY seem to not get? Leftists already pretty overwhelmingly vote Democrat as harm reduction. But people don't care, they just want somebody to blame and have decided to punch left. It's not helpful in the slightest but it is what it is.

I came in here to say some similar things.

I totally get crapping on the idiots who didn't vote or protest voted because they deserve it especially since they should have known better, but lots of progressives/the left did vote for Harris. It feels like certain liberals blame progressives and the left entirely for Trump's win.

Umbreon posted...

Then leave. Show us how it's done. Why are you wasting time on this board?

I'm wasting time on this board, because I'm expressly wasting time. I'm not crying that my side's failures are everyone else's fault while doing nothing to fix said failures.

Then they can hang in silence. I don't want to hear anyone who didn't try to stop this complaining about the suffering that wasn't dire enough for them to stop.

Then we are in fine alignment. These topics are nothing but people complaining about this outcome that apparently wasn't dire enough to make concessions for.

People act like children. They think they can get everything. Their reward is to have nothing. Just like all the people who "didn't want to support a genocide" (Spoilers: If you pay taxes, you do even if you don't want to) by refusing to vote Harris.

But thinking you can get people who don't want genocide without saying, "I will stop the genocide" is adult?

And thus, supported the far worse genocide that Trump is doing right now instead. Instead of having Harris win and then demand a ceasefire day 1.

Saying, "I will demand a ceasefire day 1" would have gone a long way with that, don't you think?

But it's not the voter's job to save anyone.

It is not. It's their job to get what they want from their politicians. Trump promised his voters what they wanted, even if it was all egregiously obvious lies. Harris couldn't do that. Consequently, Trump won, Harris lost.

WingsOfGood posted...

How did Harris fail you exactly?

She didn't win. I thought that was obvious. Was that not obvious?

Southernfatman posted...

I came in here to say some similar things.

I totally get crapping on the idiots who didn't vote or protest voted because they deserve it especially since they should have known better, but lots of progressives/the left did vote for Harris. It feels like certain liberals blame progressives and the left entirely for Trump's win.

If the aasumption is most who complained about Harris voted for her anyways then the argument would be appealing to middle voters would it not? That would be suggesting she was too progressive?
The opposite of all the complaints

That is if indeed they all really did vote her in the end

Daremo posted...

She didn't win. I thought that was obvious. Was that not obvious?

So she was 100% a good candidate until she lost?

Daremo posted...

She didn't win. I thought that was obvious. Was that not obvious?

Sorry to insert myself into this conversation, but if you were to ask me, I hated the fact that she didn't ask for a recount. And specifically said that she wouldn't.

Southernfatman posted...

I came in here to say some similar things.

I totally get crapping on the idiots who didn't vote or protest voted because they deserve it especially since they should have known better, but lots of progressives/the left did vote for Harris. It feels like certain liberals blame progressives and the left entirely for Trump's win.

which would be a point if harris lost due a few states but she outright lost all states so all the EC said no we want trump cuz he will bring the price of eggs down even their exit polls showed they didn't give a damn gaza overwhelmingly

WingsOfGood posted...

If the aasumption is most who complained about Harris voted for hwr anyways then the argument would be appealing to middle voters would it not? That would be suggesting she was too progressive?
The opposite of all the complaints

That is if indeed they all really did votwr her in the end

No because you assume that apathetic non-voters are in the middle. They're not, they're all across the spectrum. Dems need to start trying to excite people to vote for them, to drive away that apathy and if you think just constantly playing to the right and center is going to pull it off all I really have to say to that is that tactic is what has gotten us into the problem we're in.

edit:

I'd also point out that generally speaking people are not neatly categorized as left/center/right. People have positions that are all over the place typically. The key is we need to actually try to help people in tangible and meaningful ways and people don't feel like they're being helped and in large part that's because money has completely bought the system so who's being helped is those who have all the capital.

Enclave posted...

No because you assume that apathetic non-voters are in the middle. They're not, they're all across the spectrum. Dems need to start trying to excite people to vote for them, to drive away that apathy and if you think just constantly playing to the right and center is going to pull it off all I really have to say to that is that tactic is what has gotten us into the problem we're in.

That user implied protest voters aka progressives did not effect the outcome and most progessives voted Harris

You suggest they did effect the outcome? They did not most vote for her?

WingsOfGood posted...

That user implied protest voters aka progressives did not effect the outcome and most progessives voted Harris

You suggest they did effect the outcome? They did not most vote for her?

They both did and didn't affect the vote.
They get blame about sitting out? They didn't affect anything.
They want to blame dems for not catering to their interest? They did affect everything.

WingsOfGood posted...

That user implied protest voters aka progressives did not effect the outcome and most progessives voted Harris

You suggest they did?

I'm suggesting that most leftists voted Harris and when I say that I mean out of typical voters. No matter where you are along the political spectrum you have apathetic non-voters, people who don't typically vote and no I'm not referring to them specifically because they are a problem literally across the spectrum, they are not something unique to the left.

A protest voter would be a typical voter not a typical non-voter.

Protest voters are a problem but they're a pretty small minority and likely didn't affect the outcome of this election outside of maybe Michigan and if Harris had won Michigan she still would have lost. That said, Harris could absolutely done a SIGNIFICANTLY better job appealing to the protest voters and suggesting otherwise is just shoving your head in the sand. Mistakes were made and how her campaign handled the issue of the ongoing genocide is absolutely a mistake that the Dems need to learn from.

What's really needed though is politicians who will get people out of that apathy and as long as politicians are working for corporations instead of the people? I don't see that apathy breaking.

WingsOfGood posted...

So she was 100% a good candidate until she lost?

Far from it. She was better than the alternative. She was good enough on most points, which is why I voted for her.

I am failing to see how typical non-voters aren't the middle and somehow are tons of progressives

Like how does Harris appeal to them beyond being less progressive?

Daremo posted...

I'm wasting time on this board,

While finger wagging others for doing the same? Why can't other people be wasting time for the sake of wasting time?

Daremo posted...

Then we are in fine alignment. These topics are nothing but people complaining about this outcome that apparently wasn't dire enough to make concessions for.

We are in an entirely different galaxy when it comes to "alignment". I'm not the one waving my dick at people who are... upset at election results? What "concessions" do you think an individual voter has the power to make? You understand no one here is an actual politician, right?

Daremo posted...

But thinking you can get people who don't want genocide without saying, "I will stop the genocide" is adult?

Again, you're placing a lot of power in the hands of someone who doesn't have power. Unless you expect a single voter to walk up to the leaders responsible for the wars and making them stop?

To clarify: Those who wanted the Isreal/Ukraine war to potentially stop needed to vote Harris. Doing so would not single handedly cause this country to no longer support Isreal (Nor would any dream candidate one could think of), but it would have been one of the necessary steps for convincing the leader of our country to take the next steps.

If you didn't vote Harris, you voted for the genocide to continue without hope of peaceful resolution.

Daremo posted...

Saying, "I will demand a ceasefire day 1" would have gone a long way with that, don't you think?

Probably. But I wasn't the one running for President.

Daremo posted...

It is not. It's their job to get what they want from their politicians. Trump promised his voters what they wanted, even if it was all egregiously obvious lies. Harris couldn't do that. Consequently, Trump won, Harris lost.

And non voters got what they wanted.

Except for the refunds they'll be asking for.

nocturnal_traveler posted...

Another thing I've noticed, is that Humans have a huge problem with self accountability. It's never MY fault. It's someone else's. The Democrats try to spread around blame (like it should... normally), and people are like "nuh-uh!" Meanwhile Republicans say, "you're right. It's not your fault. It's that guy over there!" And it allows them to keep denying accountability.

So what's the solution? Democrats need to let these fools live in their delusion, except in a way that doesn't actually hurt people. Go ahead and blame immigrants. Dems have the highest deportation rates anyways. It's not like they'd be lying about being tough in immigration. Also, blame rich people (especially rich people). Everybody hates them anyway, and only Republicans think they can do no wrong.

I'm glad you decided to make this thread, TC. If I were to come up with it, people would no doubt think it's some kind of plot to further smear the far left. With that in mind, I would say that a lot of leftists these days are all about virtue signaling. They have become ideologues who look down on pragmatism. They cry about accountability, but refuse to reflect when proven wrong about something because the internet lets them be assholes.