Board 8 > Save My Favorite Final Fantasy Characters XXVII: Day 98 (RULE CHANGE) [smfffc]

(+) Yeah! (+)

andylt posted...

As of August 2008, Revenant Wings has sold 1.04 million units worldwide

That means someone bought it. As you can see from the poll some days ago, that doesn't mean they played it.

Lopen posted...

I'm saying talk about Seymour being an underdog was never about stats. It was about whether he could actually win the whole thing. Bringing up Layle in the same breath should make it obvious that stats don't necessarily mean you have any chance to win the whole thing.

I agree with this wholeheartedly. People looking at the stats can be tricked into thinking that Seymour is a perennial contender or, at the least, could make it there any year if the stars line up correctly, but the reality is that he was never a threat to make the final outside of this year. There is a difference between a perennial high performer and a perennial contender.

This was his first and probably last real threat of actually making a final. Well, I won't say last, since depending on how long this contest runs, maybe he can make another push in 5-10 years again, if the stars happen to line up again like they did this time. But I know there are a lot of people here who would probably agree that it would be a safe bet to say that his 3rd place placement this contest is likely as high as he will go. And you know what, that's still a great accomplishment. Would have been nice to get into the final, but he got boxed out and it wasn't meant to be.

I'm just annoyed a little at all the minimizing from people. "Oh he does this all the time, look at his stats". No, this was his first and only legitimate chance to actually make a final. That would make someone an underdog in my book. Hopefully, one day in the future, he'll get another one. But that's just me trying to be optimistic. I do believe deep down this was likely his one and only chance.

Bane_Of_Despair posted...

Don't bring Vaan back in and take away the only notable thing he has to himself

It's better to be a bottom 10 than some middling low in-between number

you saw how everyone creamed themselves with prompto's stat increase? I need to chase that high again

Ha ha yeah, this was only Seymour's second time in the top 5. I don't think it's his last time reaching a similar height, but this was his last chance at a coordinated effort to make a push to the final. Don't let STATS and the vocal SEYMOURFEAR minority convince you otherwise. He's not Aerith so we're not gonna run it back until it happens: this was it for a long time, if not forever.

Sabin again

I've never thought of Seymour as a title contender and I was surprised to see him get so close to the final. Never say never, but yeah this particular run was clearly a big deal for his fans.

illuminatusbubu posted...

That means someone bought it. As you can see from the poll some days ago, that doesn't mean they played it.

Nonsense, how can someone buy a game and then not play it

guffguy89 posted...

Would have been nice to get into the final, but he got boxed out

Is that really what happened?

Yes, I believe so.

The Sabin overflow was real this contest. I know they tried to hide or minimize it, but they had the numbers and the overflow votes to be able to manipulate the contest to their favor. Don't get me wrong, nothing bad or wrong was done here. It was just a group of people who had the numbers, consisting of a lot of veteran board members who probably communicated and planned well. They boxed out Tifa because she was a threat. Boxed out Seymour because they don't like him. And got the final they wanted. They executed it well. If I'm miffed by anything, it's the reason why some of them hate Seymour, but I have already touched on that and don't want to discuss that further.

For the record, I didn't box out Seymour. I genuinely like Garnet more. I think mnk is the same way. If anything, we made a tactical blunder because we picked the character we like more over the character Sabin had a better shot at beating.

I point out the STATS to demonstrate this narrative that people don't support Seymour because they dislike charon is overblown. He's had a lot of people trying to help him for the last several years, and he had more than ever this year.

Like if you think I don't support Seymour because of charon, I'd recommend getting your estimation of me off the floor. I don't hold any grudge toward charon. I just don't like Seymour very much. If he were pushing someone I actually cared about, then it wouldn't stop me from saving them, too.

Nobody is accusing you Leon or anyone else who doesn't like Seymour. It's okay to not like Seymour.

Yeah, I just don't like Seymour as a character. charon is cool.

guffguy89 posted...

The Sabin overflow was real this contest. I know they tried to hide or minimize it, but they had the numbers and the overflow votes to be able to manipulate the contest to their favor. Don't get me wrong, nothing bad or wrong was done here. It was just a group of people who had the numbers, consisting of a lot of veteran board members who probably communicated and planned well. They boxed out Tifa because she was a threat. Boxed out Seymour because they don't like him. And got the final they wanted. They executed it well. If I'm miffed by anything, it's the reason why some of them hate Seymour, but I have already touched on that and don't want to discuss that further.

Sabin was safe 4 seconds before Garnet >_> and it was only Mewtwo who got her because she actually got to 24 before Sabin did. Also, a lot of us were getting nervous on the Discord because we didn't even know if enough of his missing savers would show up in time for the rush

and several Sabin savers traded with Seymour!

Leonhart4 posted...

The pluckiest underdog since Squall

So underrepresented in this contests top 10s and 20s.

It's true though we did get lucky in how many FRs we were able to accrue throughout the Top 10.

What exactly are we arguing here?

That Sabin voters did not have an overflow for the majority of the top 10? Because I don't know what contest you were paying attention to, but that seemed obvious. Once again, nothing nefarious about that. But just pointing out the facts.

Or maybe that Seymour wasn't boxed out in Day 98? I mean look, there were several Sabin voters between Discord and the topics that indicated they were pushing for Garnet/against Seymour. Garnet was behind Day 97 and we know about Sabin's overflow. Yet, Day 98 as you mention was incredibly close. Let's connect the dots here. Once again, nothing nefarious outside of anyone who was ill-intentioned, but I believe it constitutes a box out. You can disagree I suppose if you like.

And of course, Sabins voter base was so huge that they weren't a unanimous blob. People likely had different opinions, but the only public push I saw from Sabin voters was to get Garnet in over Seymour.

Sabin isn't just Sabin too, it's the whole 2D contingent as the last one standing

I guess it depends on how you define "boxed out". If you think it means meta voting to choose the easiest opponent, I dunno. Seymour was probably the weaker opponent from that perspective. But if you just mean people not saving him because they don't like him/like Garnet more, then yeah there was clearly some of that. But that's just normal saving behavior.

thats what makes them so strong. If only the 3D contingent could be so consolidated, lol

redrocket posted...

guffguy89 posted...

Is that really what happened?

No.

guffguy89 posted...

Yes, I believe so.

Minor correction, guff. Seymour did not get boxed out of the final. Only Tifa Lockhart really got ye old embargo. Just as many people were willing to trade with Seymour as they were with Garnet and Sabin, it's just that not all of Seymour's base cared enough to spam F5 from the comfort of their keyboards like the people who cared enough to take him out. He was only two votes away from making the final, and SaveEstelle and UltimaterializerX were unfortunately a little too late.

Eddv posted...

So underrepresented in this contests top 10s and 20s.

Can you actually just shut up, like ever?

its not much different than not saving Aerith because you are tired of 7 overexposure/just dont like her

or someone like say, Agrias for not playing her game. I dont really take that much offense to people not saving the way I would like

And to be clear, there was absolutely no sense of organization or planning from us in Discord, lol. Not even when choosing FR days, that was a clusterfuck of confusion. We all just did whatever on our own.

guffguy89 posted...

consisting of a lot of veteran board members who probably communicated and planned well.

The so called veteran board members were doomposting in discord since they had no idea whether the missing members were holding or truly missing the round.

There's no planning at all. They had 5 FRs on Day 94 and 1 FR on Day 95 because they had no idea what had been claimed.

mnk posted...

I guess it depends on how you define "boxed out".

Ok, I think this is the problem. I think I'm operating under a looser or just different definition of the term "boxed out" than maybe you guys are. The more constricted definition, I can see the point you guys are making. Perhaps its best to just move on then...

guffguy89 posted...

I agree with this wholeheartedly. People looking at the stats can be tricked into thinking that Seymour is a perennial contender or, at the least, could make it there any year if the stars line up correctly, but the reality is that he was never a threat to make the final outside of this year. There is a difference between a perennial high performer and a perennial contender.

This was his first and probably last real threat of actually making a final. Well, I won't say last, since depending on how long this contest runs, maybe he can make another push in 5-10 years again, if the stars happen to line up again like they did this time. But I know there are a lot of people here who would probably agree that it would be a safe bet to say that his 3rd place placement this contest is likely as high as he will go. And you know what, that's still a great accomplishment. Would have been nice to get into the final, but he got boxed out and it wasn't meant to be.

I'm just annoyed a little at all the minimizing from people. "Oh he does this all the time, look at his stats". No, this was his first and only legitimate chance to actually make a final. That would make someone an underdog in my book. Hopefully, one day in the future, he'll get another one. But that's just me trying to be optimistic. I do believe deep down this was likely his one and only chance.

That does make sense, but by this same logic then Tifa and Rikku fall into the same bucket.

Suprak_the_Stud posted...

That does make sense, but by this same logic then Tifa and Rikku fall into the same bucket.

Tifa has in fact made a final before though.

UltimaterializerX posted...

What I didnt realize until yesterday is Sin has ever once made it in apparently?

But sin is jecht

FFDragon posted...

Tifa has in fact made a final before though.

when dinosaurs (and Vlado) roamed the earth

LiquidOshawott posted...

its not much different than not saving Aerith because you are tired of 7 overexposure/just dont like her

or someone like say, Agrias for not playing her game. I dont really take that much offense to people not saving the way I would like

*raises hand* Hi, I like Aerith, and I voted for her in 1.5 of her finals appearances (split almost even versus Barret, not that it mattered since he crushed her regardless), and for reasons I don't want to get into right now I'm super tired of seeing "FINAL Aerith vs. _". Doesn't mean I'm going to hold that against the character! For every super annoying member of the fanbase that persistently pushes her, there's one that's super chill to cancel the obnoxious ones out. Give her a vacation from finals, and put her up against the right opponent and I'll absolutely support her because I'm not so petty as to punish every single fan of the character for something one or two individuals are doing.

Edit: Forgive me, I got the formatting wrong.

FFDragon posted...

Tifa has in fact made a final before though.

True, but I would guess that is mostly irrelevant now because without looking or knowing who saved, I would guess there are less than 4-5 people that saved in that final that are still around. AND she got the least amount of votes ever recorded in a final.

Tifa and Rikku both got boxed out because they were "super scary and super stronk" but at least to my knowledge neither one has presented a serious threat to make the finals since the Obama administration. And I used the term boxed out kind of sarcastically because I think the bigger problem is they just weren't picking up support in the late game.

I totally understand guff being bummed, but I don't think Seymour is hopeless (unless if charon is truly just done). He did a better job picking up casual support that characters everyone seems to agree are casual powerhouses.

Bane_Of_Despair posted...

It's better to be a bottom 10 than some middling low in-between number

Disagree

Heck, that was the whole point of this Kimahri run.

It's fun to win, and I've yet to be part of a contest where I supported the winner (outside of trades and NRs) before the final, but there's also a pressure to it if you think your character can actually win.

Squall winning without me was a bummer but it also kinda took the pressure off of me to try to win because it's never gonna happen for me. Now I can just roll with pet projects every year (Big Zaddy Summer here we come) and hope for the best for Squall along the way.

For what it's worth Suprak, I'm kind of bummed Tifa didn't make the final knowing now that Seymour didn't make the final. These current two finalists are just blah for me, but I would've voted for Tifa in the Finals if she had made it. I do honestly think she has as good of a chance as anyone to reach a final again within the next 5 years. Her or some other FFVII girl at least. It's bound to happen eventually, right?

I don't want to say this before because it might disappoint Seymour people more than now. However, when Prompto went out, I was deciding between going to Sabin or Seymour. I ultimately chose Sabin because I like him more but there was a point that I almost chose Seymour. With my 2 saves and Plasmakappa's FR save that I had swing to Seymour, Seymour probably be in the final.

Maniac64 posted...

Disagree

Heck, that was the whole point of this Kimahri run.

Kimahri didn't deserve to be "notable" for that reason. Wakka didn't either, but he still has the legacy of being the second single most hard booted character in this entire contest (thanks Exdeath for taking the heat off him), and, as a character whose Overdrive is Slots Reels I find that fitting. Either Wakka is in for a great run, or he does a misinput, falls the slots, and he's booted yet again~

Vaan on the other hand... well I haven't played Revenant Wings, but vanilla XII Vaan absolutely deserves his smiffic stats in my humble opinion. Penelo does too. Fran does not, but I can see why people think she does. So out of respect for the character and her chief supporter I won't bring her back until we can guarantee a decent run. I suppose not everyone can appreciate the subtle characterization of Fran's character like I can.

Leonhart4 posted...

It's fun to win, and I've yet to be part of a contest where I supported the winner (outside of trades and NRs) before the final, but there's also a pressure to it if you think your character can actually win.

Squall winning without me was a bummer but it also kinda took the pressure off of me to try to win because it's never gonna happen for me. Now I can just roll with pet projects every year (Big Zaddy Summer here we come) and hope for the best for Squall along the way.

I think the Squall rerun is more likely to happen than that of a Tidus, Auron, or Balthier one to be perfectly straight with you. Maybe none of them do, but if one was ever going to happen I'd put money on Squall. That might seem absurd to you, who struggled just to get him to 10th this contest when Auron and Tidus have finished 3rd and 4th respectively since they've won, but there's still plenty of people who'd want to see Squall reach the same heights, while the people that want to see Balthier or Tidus do even remotely well are few and far between. I couldn't even get my blond boi to 10th without selling my soul, and that was my main goal this contest. Mission failed successfully, I guess!

There were probably like 5 anti charon votes tops, which is enough to be annoyed about yeah but not enough to say it was the deciding factor.

There is definitely a wide sweeping appeal Seymour just doesn't have though as a character. And that's why his stats are deceiving. This was a good proof of concept that he just can't really do it imo-- he'd need to be against Edward or something to have a chance. It's nothing about the users it's the character.

guffguy89 posted...

What exactly are we arguing here?

That Sabin voters did not have an overflow for the majority of the top 10? Because I don't know what contest you were paying attention to, but that seemed obvious. Once again, nothing nefarious about that. But just pointing out the facts.

Or maybe that Seymour wasn't boxed out in Day 98? I mean look, there were several Sabin voters between Discord and the topics that indicated they were pushing for Garnet/against Seymour. Garnet was behind Day 97 and we know about Sabin's overflow. Yet, Day 98 as you mention was incredibly close. Let's connect the dots here. Once again, nothing nefarious outside of anyone who was ill-intentioned, but I believe it constitutes a box out. You can disagree I suppose if you like.

And of course, Sabins voter base was so huge that they weren't a unanimous blob. People likely had different opinions, but the only public push I saw from Sabin voters was to get Garnet in over Seymour.

You're probably right about Tifa, I was just saying in F3 specifically Sabin didn't have the numbers to influence who made it through, even if some of his savers wanted to. Again, Mewtwo is the only one that free saved her and he said he just likes her more, and trade-wise it was pretty even by my count.

GenesisSaga posted...

I think the Squall rerun is more likely to happen than that of a Tidus, Auron, or Balthier one to be perfectly straight with you. Maybe none of them do, but if one was ever going to happen I'd put money on Squall.

Maybe. There's no real juice for it right now since he just won a few years ago, but I guess that could change with time.

Honestly next year is the time for an Auron run since he's coming back from the boot.

Leonhart4 posted...

Honestly next year is the time for an Auron run since he's coming back from the boot.

Well that's the tentative plan, and it worked for Yuna, but I don't want to put all my eggs in one basket again. These top ten pushes take a lot out of me, and I need a recovery period before I seriously consider pushing anyone. So... good luck to , I'm just kind of over it for now. Maybe I'll feel differently in 8 months, but for now I'm going full casual. I even left the Discord so I won't be tempted to be present at the start of every round.

I think any character that won when the internet was still in black and white like Auron have a better chance at repeating than Squall who won in the most recent era

Yeah, we're basically treating the old era like it didn't happen anymore, so that gives hope to the ones who won way back then

Well, some of them

KommunistKoala posted...

I think any character that won when the internet was still in black and white like Auron have a better chance at repeating than Squall who won in the most recent era

lefty is still dreaming that dream.

honestly Auron was up against plumbers and mailmen, barely counts

I kind of think Balthier is one of the winners best poised to actually win if he could get good early-mid support.

• Could do with some redemption for weak performances
• Hasn't done well for years now
• FF12 doesn't typically do very well either
• Win was a long time ago now
• Popular, both casually and amongst the saver base

I don't know if he'd get that support, but I think he's certainly a threat if he went deep.